Talk:Kamal Haasan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Untitled

Redirect from Kamal Hasan done chance 05:29, Dec 8, 2003 (UTC)

In India and most places he is known in, he is known as Kamal (first name), not Haasan. Furthermore it is tradition of Indians to use the first name when talking about someone. Shouldn't that be changed in the article, instead of calling him "Haasan" a number of times?

Collaborations with Rajinikanth

The two Hearts of Tamil Cinema Kamal Haasan and Rajinikanth have acted together in as many as eighteen movies including two in hindi and one in telugu (a tamil remake). Ofcourse most of these movies are in the seventies with few guest appearences in each other movies like Visu's Thillu Mullu and Thaayillamal Naan Illai.

The complete collaboration list:

Apoorva Raagangal (1975) (Rajinikanth's debut)
Moondru Mudichu (1976) (Kamalhaasan, Guest Appearance)
16 Vayathinile (1977) (Multi award winning trendsetter)
Avargal (1977) 
Aadu Puli Attam (1977) 
Ilamai Oonjaladukirathu (1978)
Aval Appadithan (1978)
Thappu Thalangal (1978) (Tamil, Kannda) (Kamalhaasan, Guest Appearance)
Allauddinum Albhutha Vilakkum (1979)
Ninaithale Inikkum (1979)
Anthuleni Katha (1979) (telugu) (Jayaprada's debut)
Thaayillamal Naan Illai (1979) (Rajinikanth, Guest Appearance)
Thillu Mullu (1981) (Kamalhaasan, Guest Appearance)
Naandri, Meendum Varuga (1982) (Kamalhaasan, Guest Appearance)
Agni Sakshi (1982) (Both Guest Appearance)
Uruvangal Maralam (1983) (Both Guest Appearance)
Aakhri Sangram (1984)(Hindi)
Geraftaar (1985) (Hindi) (with Amitabh Bachchan) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drnavin (talk • contribs) 

Copies from Hollywood / World Movies

As mentioned by a user, I have posted the content here. I have also given credible video evidences of Kamal copying hollywood movies here. Just because it has not been published in rediff or yahoo doesn't mean that the evidence is not credible.

What I am trying to say is that, let us keep this article unbiased. Why are you fans worshipping him, eventhough evidences are available that he is copying?

I am expecting a sportive reply to this.

KamalHassan has so far copied many hollywood / world movies without giving them due credit . To avoid legal issues, he has skillfully abridged the original movie and has added local flavor to it. However, most of the below given films can be easily identified with the original english / world movie

1. Avvai Shanmughi - Tootsie & Mrs. Doubtfire 2. Thenali - What About Bob? 3. Panchathantiram - Very bad things 4. Raja Paarvai - Butterflies are Free & The Graduate 5. Enakkul Oruvan - The Reincarnation of Peter Proud 6. Indran Chandran - Moon over Parador 7. Nala Damayanthi - Green Card (film) 8. Sathi Leelavathi - She-Devil 9. Magalir Mattum - Nine to Five 10. Anbe Sivam - Planes, Trains and Automobiles 11. Guna (film) - Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down!

his latest film Manmadhan Ambu has been rumored to be copied from There's Something About Mary

Here are a few videos which show that the Kamal Hassan films have been copied from the original English / world movies. You can play the videos by clicking the reference videos given in the references section from 37 to 46.

Indran Chandran - Moon Over Parador

Thenali - What About Bob?

Panchathantiram - Very bad things

Raja Paarvai - The Graduate

Enakkul Oruvan - The Reincarnation of Peter Proud

Rajesh.scorpi (talk) 05:22, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

To person who posted this, plz next time sign-in before leaving. Ok. Lets begin. Your claim that kamal copies from english movies is a mindset. Be more imaginative, open-minded. Ex: In present India, the infrastructure done on all cities are inspired from west & adapting it to Indian standards -- This is not a copy. So Your claim on kamal copies -- is one sided & deviates. Likewise all important movies of Hollywood are inspired and re-modeled from Spanish/Italian/English Cinema; Latin,greek,french novels - dramas etc., So you want them also to be called as -- copies. Ex: Vanity Fair (2004 film) -- adapted from William Makepeace Thackeray's novel ; Open Your Eyes (1997 film) -- was remade in Hollywood as "Vanilla Sky" starring Tom Cruise.

So everywhere in the world adaptation, inspiration, re makes are done. There is no need for a special mention here. No point here stricts Kamal -- copies. Are ex's like above are credited properly for the original. Common on !! no one cares what happens in europe who lives a lifestyle in Canada/US or vice-versa. I would like to say, in one way or other each person sees each other. So its infinity and beyond control.

It will be a end-less list that says "I try to be....." etc., Be more analystic, broad, clear than viewing in just ONE angle.

Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 02:42, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

@ Keyan20 (Ungal Vettu Pillai) - :-) So, u mean to say that we should accept Plagiarism and should appreciate it by stating that we are more imaginative, open minded, blah blah and all that funny adjectives you have given? what nonsense :-)

And, you are comparing Infrastructure to movies? ha ha :-) Do you atleast have a hint of an idea about copyrighted material? Have you taken a look at the videos I have posted? They are scene by scene copies, and absolutely not inspirations :-) .

See.. My point is very clear. Plagiarism must be banned at any cost, wherever it occurs.

Also, your reference of Vanilla Sky is absolutely wrong . It is a re-make. Meaning, copyrights have been acquired to remake it. I will suggest you to take a good read about copyrights.

Just take a look at your funny statement below :-)

//So everywhere in the world adaptation, inspiration, re makes are done. There is no need for a special mention here. No point here stricts Kamal -- copies. Are ex's like above are credited properly for the original. Common on !! no one cares what happens in europe who lives a lifestyle in Canada/US or vice-versa. I would like to say, in one way or other each person sees each other. So its infinity and beyond control.//

Just because everyone are committing a crime, you are saying that there is nothing wrong. I mean, look at it man ! You are saying that, since plagiarism is a practice in the entire world, there is nothing wrong in Kamal being a plagiarist ! My god :-) .. This is wat is I call a perfect 'chamcha' :-). Well done, my friend  :-) ..

And, FYI - Re-makes are done after getting the official re making rights. Have you not read about hollywood studios filing cases against bollywood copy cats? There are numerous evidences, and only after these cases, those bollywood copy cats started to get legal rights for remakes.

My direct question: Has Kamal obtained legal rights to copy these scenes? If not , this is a crime. Plagiarism. That is the exact reason I am trying to update his wiki profile with his acts of plagiarism . He is the biggest Plagiarist we have ever seen so far in Indian cinema. All the movies I have stated above are copies. That means, a majority of his hits are copies. That should be updated in his profile. Why are you trying to stop and hide the proven fact from getting updated in his profile?

I advice you to not be a chamcha and think in an unbiased manner. I will continue to try to make it updated.

Rajesh.scorpi (talk) 04:53, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, my friend you mistaken me. What I am saying is getting inspired by something/someone (whatever), say like Sports, Academics, politics, career ,movies etc., is an act that is - ONLY CONSTANT think that happens in world. You are viewing it as a copy, which is not. Generation flow is an act of inspiration, learning from mistakes. After seeing father (from his experiences) & children following it -- is not a copy. Its a civilized way of improving, learning culture. Since swami vivekananda First spoke "Brothers & Sisters" - and later everyone following that saying the same in speeches -- is not a copy. Its the way of taking the subject and making it reach for betterness. Its a very peculiar issue - that needs more analytical thinking, reviewing.

It is an infinity quotient. Say if kamal himself tries to make a new subject from his own movies, its an act of extension and re-inventing to meet the present. I say please come out of the world of plagiarist view and copyrighted claim. Your views are so one sided and cares more just to prove what you say, leaving behind others discussion. Instead of being mechanical (artificial), be more natural (real).

Kamal is one of first to see world cinema way ahead and introduced its wider content suiting the needs of the locals. He is seen as a pathbreaker and advisor - to introduce for many new generation technicians/actors/others, which others failed to do so. Since he did that first - is not a copy. Dont stick to artificial paperwork of plagiarist - guideline/rule. A constitution is worst under the sake of humanity. Since he is been for the betterness, he is a front-runner and informer - he cant be cited as copy. Please understand it. Copy is wrong word and it is an inspiration. Everyone has the right to get inspire or get influenced from whatever they feel, in life. You relate something in vague and trying to match without base. Obama follows gandhi ideas -- is not a copy, he is inspired/influenced by it. I see you wear a jeans and looks like mine that I had before, can I argue you copied. No. You might see the design,color,price (you liked)and take it. And there is a lot of diff between copy and inspiration/influence. Whether you like, accept or not, that is the truth. Try to get me.

Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 22:12, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is clear on cases like this. The "threshold for inclusion" (meaning, the factors that determine whether content can be included in the encyclopedia) is NOT whether editors think something is true. It is whether the content is WP:VERIFIABLE, meaning "attributable to a reliable published source to show that it is not original research". If no reliable third-party source can be found on a topic, it should not be included. WP:Verifiability says: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed." Also: "Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is an expert, or well-known professional researcher or writer."

Translated into English, this means: Blogs (self-published sources lacking editorial oversight) are not reliable sources for Wikipedia content. If the subject has not been covered in a newspaper or reference work or professionally published book, it is not notable by Wikipedia's standards and should not be included until it is covered elsewhere. Wikipedia is not a publisher of original research. All I've seen presented as sources for this topic are blog entries and raw material that requires WP:SYNTHESIS to reach the conclusion that the crime of plagiarism has been committed. It's up to Rajesh.scorpi to provide a source that meets Wikipedia's criteria for reliability (e.g., a newspaper article or any publication with editorial oversight). Otherwise, the content violates Wikipedia's guidelines for inclusion.

Please familiarize yourselves with the basic rules, because we don't make them up as we go here. AtticusX (talk) 01:37, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

@ AtticusX: I got what you are saying. I will try to look for any credible source other than blogs (like you said, reliable). That I can do.

@ Keyan20: Still you are not making note of copyrighted material, my friend. Please take a look at those videos, and personally talking, I have seen all those movies. They are NOT inspirations. They are clear copies. And, certainly my views are not one sided. Consider this: let us assume that you have published a material - say a novel. If I come up with the same novel in my own language and claim that this is the first of it's kind, what will you do, if you come to understand about this? Will you still say that since you are open minded, and you will say that you are totally allowing me to go on with my plagiarized version?

Same applies to copyrighted movies. You can NEVER copy them and proclaim that they are inspirations. That is a violation of law. Very simple.

Rajesh.scorpi (talk) 10:26, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Filmography

Doesn't have to be extensive and long. Selected films or films made in recent years are sufficient. Reader can then be directed to IMDB.com or other relevant websites which contain a full listing. Remember, lemmings -- this is an encyclopedia article and not a lengthy funeral eulogy. Splashprince 07:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Kamal's No Smoking Policy

There is a statement that claims that Kamal does not take up film roles that glorify smoking. But this statement is not substantiated with evidence (such as with a reliable source). Please do this, or delete that statement altogether. Splashprince 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Photographs

The main photograph at the head of the article for Kamal Haasan has been removed for not fulfilling copyright requirements. But some photographs of him are found near the centre/base of the article. Since leaving these pictures there can be unrepresentative of Kamal (these are shots of him from film trailers/posters), may I suggest that either (i) a good, off-screen film of Kamal be found and included at the head of the article, or (ii) the other photographs from various films be temporarily removed (because they are not an actual representation of Kamal Haasan). Thanks. Splashprince 00:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The Alwarpettai Andavar drivel

I had cleaned up this article, omitting the somewhat notorious-sounding "Alwarpettai Andavar" moniker (which clearly has no place in an encyclopedia article), but someone wrongfully restores it. Let us keep this Wikipedia entry introduction professional, taut and sweet, shall we? Splashprince 14:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the intro looks good either. Please go ahead and rewrite it. - Cribananda 14:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Thanks. - 'Cribananda 14:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Redirection

Page moved from Kamal Hassan to the Official spelling Kamal Haasan --Rrjanbiah 14:12, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

//The discussion between Kamal and Madhavan about Tsunami in the movie (released in 2003) showed the Tamil viewers Kamal's in depth knowledge in every field.//

Hahaha..itz a good joke indeed. Why not the viewer's take itz Madhavan's indepth knowledge in every field?! yea man, itz Madhan who wrote the dialogue of that film.

Doctorate

I'd like to know why Sundar persists on removing Doctorate from the article, when he has in fact been awarded a honorary doctorate by Sathyabama Deemed University. Is there any evidence of this being revoked?

I'm sorry. Can you provide a link to a news report on the Doctorate? Once we have that we can add that fact with the reference. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 09:31, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Try [1].[2] has videos of the event.

Thanks Bhadri. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 10:08, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Do we really want to acknowledge "honorary" doctorates, especially by institutions which are really just trying to get some star dust to rub off on them?--Kingsleyj 03:25, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I would like to point out that honorary doctorate holders to use Doctor or Dr. as a title. See Honorary degree#Practical use. So, I think the use of Dr. as a title cannot be done in this case. Kamal ... no need title. Thanks. --Ragib 06:16, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Ragib, I have to This is very much the standard. I have removed that pompous "Dr. Kamal" reference to good effect. Splashprince 14:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussing the bias in the article

I'm not a fan of Kamal Hassan, the biased him. I think there are some very opinionated against him in the Personal life section that are uncalled for. for opinions.

• "he does comment about?

If no one names and gives us just the outline,but inreality each deserves enormous applause." I can hardly say that these sentences towards Kamal Hassan. I would say this is against the spirit of Wikipedia -- Madhu

While he hates Hinduism and arranged marriages, adores Islam and polygamy. It is common in his movies to find a Brahmin or a Hindu being meanly culprit and a muslim a victim or kind hearted person (eg: Brahmins & Hindus: secretery in defence who is a coward spy in Vikram, a cruel Hindu villain in Anbe Sivam, all meanly brahmin characters in Avvai Shanmugi and for Muslims: a sacrificing cook in 'Avvai shanmugi', a muslim second hero in 'Kurudippunal' and 'Hey Ram')

There is no substantial citation for this.Potrays the actor in a negative sense as a pseudo secularist. Logicwiki 06:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC) Srikanth

Expand section on acting career

For an actor with 40 years of work experience, this section on film career is rubbing on the surface only! This is pathetic and unacceptable. I request senior editors to expand this section decadewise viz Sixties, Seventies, Eighties, Nineties and Noughts and highlight major events in Kamal's career. Anwar saadat 13:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions

In the paragraph:

"Kamal married Vani Ganapathy in 1978. The marriage was turbulent, issueless and lasted 7 years. Kamal has two daughters through his relationship with Sarika. Shruti was born in 1985 and Akshara in 1991."

By 'issueless", did the author mean they had no children? I think 'issueless' is more of a legal, almost obscure, term.

Also, this is the only reference to Sarika. I am assuming she is well-known, but it might be helpful to put a reference to who she is for those not familiar with Indian cinema.

--Yelocab 09:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Kamal Haasan is simply emulating the feat of the main actor from the Tamil movie Dambachari (1936) by acting in 10 roles. Someone seems to be intent on not acknowledging that so that the hero will not bask in second hand glory. Sudar 11:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Added references and Kamal became a father before legally marrying Sarika

Kamal Hassan become a father without amrrying Sarika when Sarika was pregnant did Vani divorce him and he after 2nd daughter was born as he did not one child to be illgeal

Article gives impression that Kamal divorced Vani because they did not have children. Vani gave interview few years back in Kumudam that she conceived and went ahead with abortion due to joint decision. This was also confirmed by Suhasini.(Kamal's brother Charruhassan's daughter)--Indianstar 08:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems there is an almost obsessive focus on the details of his relationship. This is not something you would find in an encyclopedia like the Britannica, would you? Please keep the article tight, focused, and fairly general, and avoid dwelling on issues such as this that detracts from the main flow of the article, which is to give a balanced and overall picture of the subject as an actor. It might be helpful to also refer to this Indian cinema Feature Article (Satyajit Ray). This is a high-quality article and does not wrangle about personal relationships of the filmmaker Satyajit Ray, or what his beliefs are and whether he forces his beliefs unto others, or whether his daughters are as talented as him (which was actually something someone wrote here in the Kamal Haasan article!) AppleJuggler 05:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

This man is the target of media all time. If you don't permit peeping into your bedroom and personal life, why you are behind him to peep into his personal life? It is due to the reason that you people has nothing to complaint about his talents. That's all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.68.63 (talk) 17:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Please remove or reduce list of films that this actor has acted in

This article has a very long list of films in which this actor has acted. Just out of interest, the list of films is at least twice as long as the sections which have any substantial content about the actor himself. If one is serious about creating a high-quality article, please see how Feature articles on other actors are made (Angelina Jolie, Henry Fonda, Sharon Tate, Uma Thurman). As for the film list, it could either be (i) removed, put into another article and wikilinked to this article, or removed and readers informed that they can refer to www.imdb.com for the very same extensive list, or (ii) largely reduced, leaving just a few (say, 3) notable films of this actor from each decade.

To illustrate: the musician Ilaiyaraaja has composed songs for hundreds of films, but not all 800+ of his film albums are listed at "Ilaiyaraaja"; only a very short, partial discography is provided (it contains only 5% of his total output) and readers are referred to www.imdb.com if they are interested in checking out his full list of albums. AppleJuggler 05:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Other important comments for improving this article

1. Critically in need of sources of reference. Please back up as many statements of facts as possible with a reliable source of reference (an academic journal article, a book, a respectable newspaper article etc.) For an example of how an article could be referenced, refer to Ilaiyaraaja.
2. 'Acting career' section seems to list notable roles more than anything else. It seems less like a section dealing broadly with acting (the path of his acting career, the types of roles played, the kind of directors he has worked with, the characteristics of his acting (acting style), etc.) than an extended 'Notable Roles in Films' section.
3. Gossip, unsubstantiated statements, and statements not proper for an encyclopedia article should be avoided. A (fictional) example of such a statement is as follows: "According to Galaxy magazine (Issue 4, page 51-52), Kamal Haasan is known to be secretly living with a mistress, Avvai Shanmugi, in a small village hut outside of Madras."
4. Language needs brushing up. For example, in the 'Awards' section of this article, there is a line that says that Kamal Haasan is an "idiol of art".
5. Avoid eulogistic words/statements like "Kamal Haasan is the greatest actor ever!" or "Kamal Haasan's acting is unmatchable by any other actor in the Indian film industry." etc.
6. More and informative images would be desirable (e.g., photos of the actor in his early days, actor on a film set with a film director, the cover to a DVD of his film, etc.)

AppleJuggler 05:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I have cited some references for biography related information. Even after reading the guidelines of verifiable sources, I am ambiguous about what can be considered an authentic source. sriks8 (talk) 09:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Sriks8, read point 1 again. AppleJuggler (talk) 02:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Kamal's megalomania

While Kamal's acting leaves others leagues behind, he seems to exhibit megalomania in his choice of roles and duration of appearance. These seems to be an overwhelming urge for him to be in as many frames as possible. Please note that I am not counting "Michael Madan Kamarajan" or "Dasavatharam", but the other movies.

As an astute filmaste, it might be worthwhile for him to take a sabbatical from acting in lead roles and focus on directing - a la Clint Eastwood. The break will definitely give him a chance to take a neutral perspective on balancing the charaters as opposed to making movies revolving around a single character. Sudar 08:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Please remove the filmography section

The excessively long filmography in this article must be removed. It could go into a separate article that serves as a list of his films, but even this is unnecessary: his complete filmography can be found on the World Wide Web at various websites, one example being http://imdb.com. So why duplicate it here, and make the poor article such an untidy drudgery to read? Read this too for comparison with other FA-status articles of film actors. AppleJuggler (talk) 08:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

On Improving This Article -- The introductory passage: comments and some guidelines

The introductory passage needs paring down. A degree of measure is required when contributing here, as it is easy to succumb to "fan gushing". The paragraph in the introductory passage, which contains a blow-by-blow account of some of his achievements, could be moved to a subsequent section, where it would best belong under sub-headings such as "major achievements", or in a general "career" section. Some basic but key achievements could, however, be retained for the introductory passage, but as indicated earlier, a degree of measure and succinctness is called for. Hyperbole and superlatives should be avoided in the writing of the article, overall. AppleJuggler (talk) 04:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

On Improving This Article -- Creating content: the key to an FA-class article

This is likely the most difficult part of building a top-notch article: researching for, collating, assembling and referencing meaty content. There is a tendency in articles involving Indian film actors to eulogize trivially ("he is the greatest actor...", "he executed a superbly fantastic and most super-stylish acting in this film..."), dwell on scandal ("he divorced his wife, married another woman, divorced her, and is currently living with a girlfriend..."), make long lists ("his best films are A, B, and C"). This tendency should be avoided or greatly moderated, as what is being written is an enyclopaedic article, not a promotion poster. Solid content can be obtained from numerous sources that include published books on Tamil cinema, biographies, newspaper articles, credible Internet sources, and journal articles. In summary, bear the following in mind, all editors: expand the narrative about the subject's life (i.e., relevant life history information), career and achievements, and substantiate your claims. AppleJuggler (talk) 04:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

On Improving This Article -- Please fill out edit summary when editing

The edit summary field is there for a reason. Please fill it out with each edit so that others can keep track of the changes made, and so that changes that are rendered can be more easily checked and examined. AppleJuggler (talk) 00:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The use of the phrase "critical acclaim": substantiation?

The phrase "critical acclaim" (meaning, to be lauded or praised through careful, exact evaluation and judgment, by broad consensus) is used twice in the introductory paragraph in relation to two films. Where is the evidence that these films are critically acclaimed? Is it that these two are critically acclaimed while most others are not? If critically acclaimed, then by whom? Why are these two films selected, in particular? These are things discerning readers will think about and question, and upon this hinges the issue of credibility. AppleJuggler (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Will be fixed with sources Universal Hero (talk) 10:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The inclusion of details about Dasavaratham in the introductory passage

It suffices to say that an upcoming film of his will be Dasavaratham (2008). Other details about this film (e.g., "one of the most expensive films", "he will portray 10 distinct (just how distinct? how is this measured?) roles", "he will be the first to do so") could be reserved for a later section in this article, or could be mentioned in the Wiki dedicated to Dasavaratham. Furthermore, the statement that "he is first person internationally to act in that many roles" needs substantiation. If this is not possible, then this statement should be left out. AppleJuggler (talk) 01:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Collaboration: Divide and conquer

To all those collaborating on this article:

I've noticed that AppleJuggler and UniversalHero have been working on this article.

• Firstly, I'd request UniversalHero to please use edit summaries whenever he makes any changes. It will be quite useful while collaborating.
• Secondly, if it is laid out on the table as to what needs to be done in clear words, each of the collaborators could manage a set of tasks that need to addressed. I was suggesting the UniversalHero that it could be something like, a section per collaborator.
• I noticed the early life section empty. Is someone working on it OR does it need work from the beginning?
• If updates by collaborators of the article are given at the end of certain period, say 1 week, periodic review of the article could be achieved.

If there are other ideas which the collaborators might want to share, you please put it forth here. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 15:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

User	Task	Status	Expected Completion
Universal Hero	Career prose	Re-writing	14 February, 2008

Sorry to say, but, I've not been contributing at all to this article despite my intentions a week ago. The problem has been with my personal interest and this article doesn't seem to influence me much with making constructive edits to this. My apologies because I don't intend to be a part of this collaborative project indefinitely. I hope to return to work on this article someday. Apologies and my best wishes for those editors who're presently working on it. Mspraveen (talk) 15:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

"Early Life/Career" section: needs to be filled out

As commented by user MsPraveen in the preceding post, this section could be furnished with a wealth of available information. AppleJuggler (talk) 04:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

On Improving This Article -- "Biography" section: suggested outline

Universal Hero's impressive and tremendous burst of effort in adding in plenty of raw material — much of it consisting of coherent and solid content on acting, key films, etc. — could be organised and improved upon around the suggested structure below.

-Biography-

--Early life/education--

~ Role as child actor (how he got into it? Whom did he act with?)

~ What happened (or what did he do) in the approximately 10-year gap between 1963 (when he was a child actor) and 1972? Did he study dancing to be a classical dancer?

~ Under what circumstance did he return to acting leading up to 1972?

--Film career--

---Acting---

~ Can a so-called "golden/classic/quintessential period", say 1975 to early 1980s be described? Landmark films (Apoorva Raagangal, 16 Vayathinile, Aval Appadithaan, Raja Paarvai, Saagara Sangamam, etc.) and more commercial films (Guru, Sagalakallavallavan, Thoongadhey Thambi Thoongadhey etc.)?

~ Works that are a result of significant collaborations between early 1980s and early 1990s, such as those with film directors Bharathiraja, K. Balachander, K. Viswanath, Singeetham Srinivasa Rao, Mani Ratnam, Santhana Bharathi etc.?

---Film production and direction---

~ Notable films that he directed?

~ Notable films he produced?

---Other details?---

• Non-conventional roles

~The negative protagonist (e.g., Sigappu Rojakal), silent films (Pushpak), multiple-role films (here mention could be made about his multiple-role films -- but briefly please, because, after all, we must ponder a bit whether acting in multiple roles is such a great thing after all <of course, playing different roles in succession is an impressive feat, but then again its effect as a cinematic whole usually results in the dilution and one-dimensionality of characterisation>, as compared to focused, in-depth, broadly-explored single-person character studies)?

• Dancing/Choreography in films

~Does he usually choreograph himself or to what extent is he given room to improvise? How is his fluid dancing different from the more mechanical and highly choreographed contemporary dance routines?

~Is he considered an adept dancer in most films, even in commercial films (modern dancing/classical dancing)? Some examples of each?

• Playback singing

~When was the first instance of him doing playback singing? Where can good/significant examples of his playback singing be heard (Nayakan, Vikram, Apoorva Sagodharargal)? Has he sung for other film actors (such as the song "Ponmaney Theduthey" in the film Oh Maane Maane (1984))?

• Etc. (Screenplay/lyrics writing?)

-Recognitions/Awards-
~Just some key/important recognitions? (Details about the National Awards he had won, some key Filmfare awards <because the rest can be found in extended filmography page>, FICCI "Living Legend", and the Asian Film Festival recogitions -- which Asian Film Festivals and are there evidences/references for these?)
~Civilian awards (Padhma Shri)?
-Partial filmography-
~Containing just award-winning films? (the rest can be put into dedicated filmography page)?
AppleJuggler (talk) 05:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

How come no mention is made about his involvement in the Hindi film Saagar (1985)?

Kamal's notable entries into the Hindi-language film industry needs mentioning (Ek Duje Ke Liye (K. Balachander), and Saagar with Rishi Kapoor and Dimple Kapadia -- for which Kamal won a Filmfare award for acting I think? Not so sure, please check). I think perhaps it's worth writing a paragraph dedicated to some of his notable work in the more well-known Bollywood (or films remade in Hindi that have been notably successful or drew substantial attention -- did Hey Ram receive any attention in the mostly Hindi-speaking world?) AppleJuggler (talk) 00:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Kamal had got a Film Fare award in Hindi for Saagar. The most interesting thing is: he also won another FilmFare Award in Telugu for SwathiMuthyam on the same year. Any other actors can even dream of it? No Chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.68.63 (talk) 18:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Mention could be made of Vikram (1986)

In relation to the above point about Saagar, in which Kamal co-acted with Rishi Kapoor and Dimple Kapadia: Vikram, a spy thriller involving nuclear missile proliferation and threats, is another film in which Kamal co-starred with Kapadia. This movie may also be mentioned in the text of this article because it stands out as an almost Bond-like, spy film. By linking films by whom he has co-acted with, and more significantly, by these films having some significance in themselves, we enrich this Wiki article's content. AppleJuggler (talk) 01:45, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll fix it soon. Universal Hero (talk) 16:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

16 Vayathinile (1977) -- is among the favourite films of some top Tamil directors

Almost all of the Tamil film directors interviewed in this article -- from K. Balachander, Sridhar, to Mani Ratnam -- consider Kamal's 16 Vayathinile as one of their favourite movies. In particular, Mani Ratnam highlighted the high-standard and realism of the film -- a realism which can be attributed at least in part in part to Kamal's prominent characterisation of the dimwit Chappani. These tidbits of information could be mentioned in the text of this Wikipedia article. 16 Vayathinile can be considered a key film in Kamal's oeuvre but is not mentioned in the text at the moment. AppleJuggler (talk) 01:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

This will appear in the 70's section, soon to be written Universal Hero (talk) 16:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

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Citations/ Verification

I'm removing the tag since I don't see any major problems with the article as a whole. For more specific issues, please tag appropriately or discuss on talk page. Cribananda (talk) 01:58, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Lots of claims that should be sourced - do you want me to continue identifying specific claims or return the general tag to the article? -- The Red Pen of Doom 02:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Continue identifying specific claims. Cribananda (talk) 02:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Name

Does someone know when he started to change the spelling of his name from "Kamalahasan" (or "Kamalahaasan") to "Kamal Haasan", as if it were a surname? Shreevatsa (talk) 20:09, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

No, he dropped the Iyer tag, after becoming an atheist. Universal Hero (talk) 21:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Comedian

This article does not mention Kamal's influence on Comedy or his donning of comedy roles. I just added Kamal Hasan to list of deadpan style comedy film actors and I found that it is missing here. Was the attribution to his comedy roles removed or was it never present in this article? Phoe6 (talk) 06:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

It has been formatted to allow a prose like reading of the chapter. Universal Hero (talk) 21:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Malayalam movies

Kamal forayed into the malayalam industry before becoming popular as a lead actor in tamil. In fact, he was able to establish himself as a popular hero in kerala. Why is this not mentioned in the article?

It has been done now. Thank you. Universal Hero (talk) 21:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Best Asian Film

I see that there is no mention about Kamal's "Best Asian Film Award" at the Puchon International Fantastic Film Festival (South Korea). Can someone suggest an appropriate place in the article to add this?

The following can be used as sources.

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/fr/2004/07/30/stories/2004073001610100.htm http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/hindi/article/10030.html

Since Virumaandi is another defining film in his career as a director and for the critical acclaim that it got, I have added it to the "notable filmography"

Thanks! Movie Buff (talk) 21:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, as you may note, Haasna has acted in several award winning films. A complete filmography also stores all his role aslong with his awards. Moreover, the awards page also stores as such.

I'm sorry to say, we probably have to remove Virumaandi as it is less significant than the rest of the films there to Haasan's career. Believe me, loads of films were close calls (Guna, Saagar, Aalavandhan, Swathi Muthyam, Sigappu Rojakkal) Universal Hero (talk) 22:26, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Virumaandi got a lot of critical acclaim with the very special Asian film festival award being to add to it. As a director, this film is of great significance in his career and its presence in his notable filmography would be appropriate I feel. Why don't we have an entry for that, would appreciate if you can you give it a rethought? Movie Buff (talk) 22:38, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Without commenting on which films to include, for an article of this size, the notable filmography shouldn't exceed 10-12. Anything else, if there's any specific critical context, could be named within the body of the article. –SpacemanSpiff 22:44, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

a second opinion

I'm just a novice editor, but this is what I have noticed: this sentence makes no sense: "However, the pair split after ten years together, after finding out that Haasan was dating fellow actress, Sarika, with Haasan confirming in a recent interview that he and Vani have never been in touch since.[36]" As it is written, I do not know the subject of the verb "finding". Also the phrase "the pair' is used about a half dozen times throughout the relationships section.I would find a few other ways to say it to cut down on repetition. Overall, I found it to be a strong article. This is a subject I knew nothing about, and I feel like the article was thorough. It is far better that many "B" article I have read and I think that it should be considered a "good" article.--Ishtar456 (talk) 22:47, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the check :). I've correted any ambiguity which was present before now. :)

Website

I just want to know is this correct or not. I want to include this as his website in the infobox column, http://www.allthingskamal.info/blog/ Need help here. Please someone give assistance. Thanks

--Ungal Vettu Pillai 22:43, 15 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keyan20 (talk • contribs)

That's a fan site, and so it should not be listed, according to Wikipedia guidelines. I don't think he operates an official website. AtticusX (talk) 00:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Kamal Referred to

Hi. I want to include this "He is referred by the title -- Universal Hero" in intro. It is neutral as it does not violates article. I need help on this. Please explain in detail. Thanks !!!

--Ungal Vettu Pillai 01:29, 17 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keyan20 (talk • contribs)

Trivia

Kamal Haasan learnt ventriloquism for Avargal and it became his past-time.[1] He trained in Mirudhangam for Apoorva Raagangal and Bharatnatyam for Sagara Sangamam. In fear of becoming effiminate, he practised Karate and took to smoking. He joked about people warning him about missing girlfriends. He trained as a singer under Bala murali Krishna. Meeting him in plane at a time of leg fracture, BM Krishna suggested Kamal to practise under him on hearing about his two months injury rest. His obsession for the right looks in Anbe Sivam made him wear contact lens and power glass with opposing effects. He mimiced the Chaplin walk for Chaplin Chellapa in Punnagai Mannan. He played a midget role in Apoorva Sagodharargal. Varumaiyin Niram Sigappu, on unemployed men released and a year later, there was huge umemployment and youth anger in India. A scene about tsunami appeared in Anbe Sivam and it struck South India in Dec 2004. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.216.101 (talk) 01:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Name in Malayalam

I have included his name in Malayalam in addition to Tamil in the lead. He himself states in this interview that he is "a superior Malayali than any one else". In this video, he states he is a Malayalee as well as a Tamilian. So, I guess the best way is to write his name in both the languages. -- Arfaz (talk) 14:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Um, no, self-proclaiming yourself to a certain ethnicity doesn't certify you as part of that group. Rajinikanth often calls himself a Tamilian, but he was born in Karnataka, thus he technically should be addressed as someone from that state and background. Kamal Haasan was born to a family native to Tamil Nadu, not Kerala. EelamStyleZ (talk) 17:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Generally, we write the name of the person in his mother toungue in the opening sentence (and the mother toungue has got nothing to do with ethnicity and I suggest you to read WP:BIOGRAPHY, which clearly says ethnicity should not be emphasized in the opening). It's what I found out, he was himself citing here that he is a Malayalee and that Malayalam is his mother tongue, I didn't invent anything and I have no need for it. You are suggesting that one's mother toungue is decided by someone else than him. If you can present me some reliable sources that this is not true, I accept it, otherwise you have to accept this. And about Rajinikanth, the point you tried to make is applicable in his page too, huh? Arfaz (talk) 21:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I never said mother tounge and ethnicity were related that way. I only brought up Rajinikanth's ethnicity claim as an example. Rajinikanth's name is in Tamil on his page because Rajinikanth is a Tamil name. Of course, I would love to have his name "Shivaji Rao Gaekwad" written in Kannada or Marathi but unfortunately that would make it too cluttered. Which brings me to my next point, its better we stick to one language, rather than having a list of applicable languages. Kamal Haasan may say hes a Malayali (which your article doesn't specify if he means the ethnicity or the language) but since he was born in Tamil Nadu and learned Tamil as his first language (the article states his parents are of "Tamil origin"), we should just keep his name in Tamil. EelamStyleZ (talk) 23:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't make any sense in adding his name in Malayalam. He stated himself as a Malayalee just for the sake of respect that he has towards that industry. He was born in an orthodox Tamil Iyengar family and none of his relatives are connected with Kerala. He even said that he is a Telugu in many interviews to Telugu channels and they call him as our Kamal haasan, but that doesn't make him a Telugu. Same in the case of Kannada; just for one simple reason, he has given hits in all languages. Even Rajinikanth, a marathi was born and brought up at Karnataka, that doesn't mean he is a Kannadiga.

Also pls stop adding Kanyakumari and Yetta to notable filmography. Those films might be highly acclaimed and super hit but not outside Kerala. Most of his fans, even Tamils dont know about these two films. Even Kokila (1977 Kannada) film was highly acclaimed, a national award winning movie, which created records in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Andhra wasn't listed here. Same for Ek Duje Keli Ye. Winning filmfare awards alone doesn't make it a notable film. He has also won filmfare awards for films like Akali Rajyam, Varumayin Niram Sigappu, etc., which were highly praised by the masses. Even those films were not listed. SO pls dont add personal favourites to notable filmography.--Thalapathi 04:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

About Yaetta and Kanyakumari, I don't know what's the criterion for inclusion of films in the notable filmography section. If its box office records, then we might have to confine the list only to Hindi films as their gross amounts and notability are much more than any South Indian films. If critical evaluations are the basis, then the Malayalam films Madanolsavam and Kanyakumari will be topping the list just after Nayagan. If awards are the basis, then too Kanyakumari and Yeetta will make the list as both of them earned South Filmfare awards to him. If the importance of the film in the actor's career is the basis, then if somebody here can understand a little Malayalam, then please watch this interview. The actor mentions that the film Kanyakumari means a lot to him and it was the break in his career. So there is no reason to remove these films from the list. I strongly feel that it has been removed just because of the user's hatred for Malayalam films (obvious from his edits in Malayalam films and actor biographies). And I don't expect such behaviour from such an experienced editor.

I have no problem in removing his name in Malayalam. But the explanations given are not at all satisfactory and any user can at any time include the actor's name in Malayalam script and the interview link I have given is more than enough for that. And it doesn't make any sense for me that how veinly somebody is trying to prove his mother toungue is not Malayalam, when he himself states that I'm a pure Malayalee, a superior Malayalee than anyone else. -- Arfaz (talk) 20:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

As far as we know he was not born or brought up at kerala. He was born at Paramakudi (now a part of Ramanathapuram Dist) on the east coast. His parents are Tamils. All his relatives are Tamil Brahmins. He doesn't know to read or write Malayalam. He Knew malayalam only after he made a foray into that industry. Just because of him saying that "I'm malayalaee, it doesn't mean he has two mother tongue". Even Rajini has admitted himself as a Tamil and he has been living here for more than 35 years and there are evidences that his ancestors are from a village near krishnagiri dist. But that doesn't mean he s a Tamil. He even married a Tamil woman and his daughters are married to Tamil people. Even then he s not a Tamil nor a kannadiga, but a Marathi. So pls stop saying Kamal Haasan is a malayalee. Even Rajini has stated I's also a Telugu in a charity function organised by the telugu industry long back. Doest it mean he is a telugu too? and regarding notable filmography if you add Kanyakumari and yetta ill go ahead nad add some 20 films form kannada tamil telugu hindi and so on. --Thalapathi 08:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Also I have no problems in including Kanyakumari and Yetta. But I wont accept if u say after Nayagan these two films of him are highly acclaimed. Kamal haasan stated in an interview that I have always had a feeling that I didn't give a film like Nayagan (Tamil) Saagara Sangamam (Telugu)in Malayalam. In that case mammooty and mohanlal are ahead of me. this clearly states that He himself feels he has not given a great film in malayalam. See none of his films which were official entry for oscars are fom malayalam. 5 are frm Tamil, 1 each in Telugu and Hindi. Also Unlike Kokila and Maro charitra none of his malayalm films made a big business outside kerala. I bet you almost 99 percent of his Tamil fans doesn't knw about his malayalam films.

Above all to make you clear, read this and understand what he says. --Thalapathi 08:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Arfaz, Kamal Haasan stating that he's "a superior Malayalee than anyone else" is a claim and highly opinionated, not at all a fact. How could you use that to base something like Malayalam being his mother tounge? Like Vensatry, I feel that he said that as a polite gesture to honour Malayalam cinema for being part of his success, much in the way Rajinikanth does to Tamils. EelamStyleZ (talk) 19:28, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I already said, even I'm not interested in including his name in Malayalam (only because he is the super hero Tamil industry). But what made me to start this discussion was that Vensatry was trying to remove every Malayalam related contents from this article. Vensatry, can you explain these edits 1, 2, 3, 4, and many of your edits in the artice that was reverted either by me or by Salih? You have been a good contributor to Rajinikanth article, this article and almost every Tamil film related articles. But an editor like you trying to disrupt articles just based on your personal view is quite astonishing. -- Arfaz (talk) 04:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not against Malayalam language or Kamal's Malayalam films. I just wanted to make a point clearer that there are many of his films which are more notable than the mentioned ones. Regarding the edits, I included some info like his pairing with older actress only because to make it a neutral point of view for the readers. Moreover, I was a novice at that time in wikipedia, but not now. I got those info from a Tamil website, hosted by lakshman Shruthi Group. If u know to read Tamil, I'll provide the link. Other than that I've not made any disruptive edits in this article. Of course, I've reverted back the notable filmography section because of the above mentioned reasons only. --Thalapathi_{(Ping back)} 16:11, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Notable filmography

The notable filmography section lists 23 movies, which is too long. It's advisable to have around 10 to 15 films. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 03:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I started this discussion before a month. As no responses were there I removed a few films. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 17:42, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not advisable to have 20 films in notable filmography. If we keep arguing like this the list will go on and on. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 17:49, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Considering the fact that Kamal has acted in over 200 films, 20-22 notable films is not a really long list. Salih (talk) 17:52, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so. The problem here is on what basis you say those two films are notable. Winning Filmfare awards is not a concern. It's better if we stick to 12 films. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 17:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I am respecting the three-revert rule and not undoing your edits for time being. I strongly object your selection of movies for removal as I cannot see any objective rationale for it. Salih (talk)

Okay then it's time to discuss on what basis movies can be included in notable filmography. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 18:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Before we start the discussion, it will be better if the status quo of the article is maintained. So I request you to revert your recent edits. Salih (talk) 05:22, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

There are a large no. of films highly notable in his career. So before reverting please explain how all these films are notable. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 04:44, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

You only started to remove certain films from the original list, so it up to you to give the rationale for the removal. Salih (talk) 04:48, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Okay, since there are a lot of movies which are highly significant in his career, I personally feel only those films which were well recognised at the National level, or atleast in the whole of South India must be included. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 05:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It's your personal feelings. There is no Wikipedia rule which prevents the listing of all notable movies (about 20) of an actor who has acted in over 200 films and is considered to be one of the all time great among the Indian actors. So I request you not to remove certain films from the current list as all are highly notables. Salih (talk) 05:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Then the movies which you wanted to include must also be based on your personal opinion. I agree there is no rule in WP for this. But you have to prove in what way those movies are notable. I feel you have included those films based on your personal opinion. There are a lot of movies which are highly significant than the mentioned ones. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 06:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Swathi Muthyam was India's only Telugu submission for Oscar. So, it is very much notable. Sigappu Rojakkal was one of the few Indian films remade in a foreign language and it was also a breakthrough in his career. Hence these two films should be included. Remakes are nothing near notable. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 06:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Swathi Muthyam. The film also fetched him a "Best Actor" at some Asian Film Festival, though not sure about which particular festival it was. But I don't think Sigappu Rojakkal is a notable one. I have included some films based on the following criteria:

• Kalathur Kannamma - The film won a President's medal and Kamal himself got a gold medal from the President and got various awards locally.
• Apoorva Raagangal - The film won a National Film Award for Best Feature Film in Tamil and is considered to be one of his earliest lead roles.
• 16 Vayathinile - This film did not win any National Award (in the Best Film/Best Actor), but was considered to be a major landmark in Tamil cinema as well as in Kamal's career.
• Maro Charitra - This was considered to be one of the finest romantic movies ever made in India and it was a super hit in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka without being dubbed into the repective versions. It was later remade in Hindi and received a lot of critical acclaim. I wanted this film to be included mainly because it was a super hit in South India.
• Moondram Pirai - Kamal won a National Award.
• Saagar - India's official entry for Oscar.
• Nayagan - Needs no explanation.
• Thevar Magan - Won the National Film Award for Best Feature Film in Tamil for Kamal and was also India's official entry for oscars.
• Indian - National Award for Kamal and yet another entry for Oscar.
• Hey Ram - The film was well recognized at the National level and at a few International film festivals. Oscar entry as well.
• Virumaandi - Won "Best film" and lot of accolades at a few International film festivals.
• Dasavathaaram - I don't think this is really a great film. But when considering the budget and Box-offixe success we can't really neglect this one.

Apart from these films others like Saagara Sangamam won him a Best Actor" at some Asian Film Festival; Kokila, was a major hit in Karnataka, Andhra and Tamil Nadu. It was perhaps the only Kannada film to run for more than 140 days in Chennai; Ek Duuje Ke Liye, a remake of Maro Charitra. All these are also highly notable. But if we include all these, the list will become too long. User:Salih, is very keen about including two films in his language. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 07:14, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Sigappu Rojakkal was subjected to terrible controversy. It was one of the few Indian films focusing on sexual abuse. Gautham Menon's Nadunisi Naayagal has been inspired from this one, as stated by the director. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 07:56, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean to say that Sigappu Rojakkal is not a great movie. But it's nowhere in the league of other films that are mentioned above. Nadunissi Naaigal might have drawn a lot of inspiration, but again how can we say that it's notable. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 08:50, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I fully agree with user Secret of success. Sigappu Rojakkal is a breakthrough in Kamal Haasan's career and was even remade in Hindi. Vensatry, you say "it's nowhere in the league of other films that are mentioned above". It seems you have no idea about this movie. It was much critically acclaimed than Dasavathaaram. Salih (talk) 09:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It's one of my favorite movies and I have watched that many a times. Moreover, I have that movie in my laptop. So you cannot really say that, "I have no idea about that film". It was a different kind of film in those days, no doubt, but I was talking about the films being recognized well at the National/International level. And User:Salih, I know the reason behind you supporting the inclusion of Sigappu Rojakkal. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 09:35, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Please assume good faith. Salih (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Kamal has acted in about 30 Malayalam films in the lead roles. Out of which about 10 are highly notables. If you include all of them, the list is going to be bit long. So I suggest to include few of them which won him a notable award. The three films I suggest are:

• Kanyakumari - Kamal won his first Filmfare award for this movie.
• Yaetta - This I. V. Sasi directed highly successful film also won him the Filmfare award.
• Madanolsavam - Since it was a megahit movie in Malayalam, it was dubbed into Hindi as Dil Ka Sath Dil and Tamil as Paruvamazhai

I also suggest to keep all the Tamil, Kannada, and Hindi movies which are in the original list. 20-22 films are fine for actor like Kamal Haasan. Don't mistake me for fan of the actor. For the record, I am not fan of any actor! Salih (talk) 09:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Winning a Filmfare award is not a big deal for this actor. He has won a total of 19 Filmfare awards across five languages, and not all the films for which he won FF awards are included. So you mean to say that, we should include all those 19 films. Remember, he did not win FF award for Moondram Pirai and Nayagan. I'm not against any movie/film industry. I just felt it would be better if we include films that were recognized well. There are still more films like Mahanadhi, Kuruthipunal, etc., which are highly notable. The former won a National Award (Tamil) while the latter fetched him a FF award and was showcased under the category "Director in Focus" at the International Film Festival Rotterdam. The film was also the official entry for the Oscar. I see no reason why you wanted to include a number of films when a separate filmography page is available. Kamal has done a few movies in Malayalam early in his career, but in what way do you say those films are better than the existing ones. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 10:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Filmfare award is indeed a big deal in India. Mahanadhi and Kuruthipunal also can be included. Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia and you don't have to worry about the length of the list of highly notable films of an actor. It just reflects the actor's caliber and popularity. Salih (talk) 10:31, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

And what you mean by "Kamal has done a few movies in Malayalam early in his career", he has acted in about 30 Malayalam films in the lead roles. Salih (talk) 10:35, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I haven't watched all of Kamal Haasan films, and that too only in Tamil language, so it's difficult for me to pick the most notable in his career (many of his films are considered classic!) and I don't think I'm the right person to decide that. The question is when does a film become notable. I feel the current list is definitely too long, it shouldn't include more than 10-15 films! And don't consider Filmfare Awards as an important factor, those awards are questionable. Aside from the films that fetched him National Awards, I would include the films that were chosen as India's entry for the Oscars, the commercially most successful film (which should be Dasavathaaram) and the films that featured him in multiple or distinctly different roles (surely Apoorva Sagodharargal and Dasavathaaram). There is no strict rule and it's not easy to declare a film as notable or not. In case, you shouldn't come to any conclusion, I would rather suggest you to remove the whole "notable filmography" list, that would be the best solution. Johannes003 (talk) 10:44, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Filmfare awards are questionable as said by Johannes. Apart from the Filmfare awards those films did not win any major award, or atleast the Kerala State Film Awards. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. So clubbing as many movies under a section which merely has a table makes no sense. I can even point out atleast 10 movies notable. Are you going to add all those just because they won FF awards? Just because Kamal had done 30 movies in Malayalam, doesn't make all those films as notable, and 30 is no bigger number when compared to 140 (His Tamil films). --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 11:56, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I did not claim that all the 30 Malayalam movies of Kamal are notable. A few are definitely notable. If you go by arithmetics, about 15% Kamal movies are Malayalam. So if you maintain prorata in the list, at least three Malayalam movies would find a place in the list. Though this is not a valid argument in this context, I have put this across because you stated that "30 is no bigger number when compared to 140 (His Tamil films)". Please don't make such invalid arguments. As I mentioned earlier, there are about 10 Malayalam movies which both critically acclaimed and commercially successful, but choose only few which also won an award. By the way, FF award is not a local award, it is considered to be a prestigious award established in 1950s. If others also feel that picking the notable films list is problematic, I am also for removing it entirely. Wikipedia articles should not be lopsided. Salih (talk) 13:29, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

You seem to make rough calculations. Can you list out those 10 Malayalam movies and explain in what way they are notable. The films, which I had listed not only won FF awards but also National and some have won International honours. Don't make baseless arguements. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 13:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It was not rough calculations. Kamal has acted in about 30 Malayalam films. I have listed them below for your information. The bold ones are commercially successful and critically acclaimed films, but we cannot list them all. The the tree films Viz., Kanyakumari, Yaetta, and Madanolsavam can be listed for the reasons I have mentioned earlier.

• Kanyakumari
• Vishnu Vijayam
• Gnan Ninne Premikkunnu
• Thiruvonam
• Mattoru Seetha
• Raasaleela
• Appooppan
• Agni Pushpam
• Samassiya
• Swimming Pool
• Aruthu
• Kuttavum Sikshayum
• Ponni
• Nee Ente Lahari
• Siva Thandavum
• Ashirvadam
• Madhura Sopnam
• Sridevi
• Ashta Maangalyam
• Nirakudum
• Oor Magal Marikkumo
• Aanandham Paramaanandham
• Satyavan Savithri
• Aadhya Paadham
• Madanolsavam
• Kathirunna Nimiksham
• Aam
• Vayanadhan Thamban
• Yaetta
• Allauddinum Albhutha Vilakkum
• Andhi Veyilile Ponnu
• Viratham
• Chanakyan

It would be useful if you see the two video clips [3], [4] in which Kamal himself talks about his Malayalam films. Hope you will appreciate it. Salih (talk) 17:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Coming to FF awards, they are popular but still not big awards like National awards. Filmfans's association (Madras) was established even before FF. So do you think it's a big award? If that's the case, Kamal had won more than 30 Filmfans association awards. So do you say we can go ahead and add 30 films. I have provided a valid rationale, but your argument has no point. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 13:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Let a third person decide whether my arguments have points or not. Salih (talk) 17:26, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Treating Kamal's article as special by removing notable films violates NPOV. I don't really know about Malayalam films but Sigappu Rojakkal, the reason its notable are

• The ImDb score is 7.3/10 nearly equal to that of Enthiran.
• Gautham Menon has stated that the reason he got inspired from Sigappu Rojakkal is that it is considered as Haasan's best performance till date.[5]
• The film was a commercial success and might have introduced the new genre.[6]Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 15:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It's the personal opinion of Gautham Menon. I agree, Kamal's performance in Sigappu Rojakkal was remarkable but you cannot definitely say that as his best performance till date. And why do you bring in Gautham Menon unnecessarily here, is he the greatest director of all times or has he played a vital role is shaping Kamal's career? --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 16:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Notable films can be very well explained in his career section, rather than inserting as many films in the table. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 16:31, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

If you feel that its sufficiently elaborated in the career section, I have no problem with this issue. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 16:40, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Comment to Salih: I really appreciate your efforts in carrying out a research on his Malayalam filmography. But this is no surprise for me, as I was the one who expanded some of his missing Malayalam films and even created articles for them. The interview was given to a Malayalam channel and no wonder he has to speak well about those films. But no one would agree that his Malayalam films are bigger than the Tamil ones. Even Chiranjeevi when talks to the Tamil media, says it was Tamil Nadu that made him an actor/star. Kamal might say those films gave hima break or something like that just because that industry was a part of his success. I can list out atleast 120 non-Malayalam films which was both critically acclaimed and commercially successful. Tell me one Malayalam film, which is at the level of Nayagan, Maro Charitra or even Kokila. You seem to deviate from the topic. We aren't arguing about the Tamil vs Malayalam films. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 18:25, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

"But no one would agree that his Malayalam films are bigger than the Tamil ones." who said his Malayalam films are bigger than the Tamil ones? and it not Tamil vs Malayalam films as you have claimed. I only said that there are few Malayalam films which are notable enough to include in the notable films list. Salih (talk) 06:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I said, "We aren't arguing about Tamil vs Malayalam films". I have provided a valid rationale for the list of movies that I had listed out, but you have listed out almost all of his Malayalam films and simply claimed that many of them are commercially successful, without any reference. Some movies can be notable in Malayalam, but there are also a few notable movies in Telugu, Hindi and Kannada. If we keep adding all those the list will grow like anything. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 08:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Hey look, I did not comment upon the notability of Telugu, Hindi and Kannada movies as I have no expertise on them. There could be several notable Kamal films in these languages too. Include them all. From you tone I get an impression that I suggest to include only Malayalam films and remove all other language film. Don't try to distort the argument. I have already provided my rationale just like you without any references.Salih (talk) 09:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Salih, you have just mentioned all those are hits without any sources. Have you watched all those films? I have provided the rationale based on facts which are verifiable. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 09:26, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Err, guys, this leads nowhere. Tamil people will include his best Tamil films, Malayalis will want to add his best Malayalam films. Tomorrow, a Telugu or a Kannadiga will enter this discussion and list another 10 films they feel are notable. Have a strict rule, a guideline after which you choose the films or simply remove the list and rather elaborate on the films in prose section. I seriously feel, the latter is the best solution to this. (And just by the way, this is what I think: I have read and heard a lot about films like Maro Charitra, Saagara Sangamam, Swathi Muthyam and Pushpak in other languages than Tamil but frankly none of the Malayalam films is really striking to me, I haven't heard anything about those films!) Johannes003 (talk) 10:44, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's wise to remove the table just because one user is not agreeing with others. I have provided a valid rationale: * The actor/film must have won a National award/International award, since many if his films have won a larger number of FF awards and state awards.

• The film must have been a well-known one or a big success apart from it's own state. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 10:53, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

You cannot expect a Telugu, Kannada, or a Malayalam film to make a big splash in other states unless it is dubbed into local language. Salih (talk) 13:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

"I don't think it's wise to remove the table just because one user is not agreeing with others". Don't make such misleading statements. Tell me who are the other users wanted to delete the notable films from the list. It is only you who has started all this. As user Johannes003 pointed out, these discussions is leading nowhere, so for the time being keep the status quo or deleted the list entirely. Salih (talk) 13:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, User:Salih is right. User:Vensatry is the only person who wants the list trimmed. As far as notability is concerned, there is nothing wrong in keeping 20 films in the table, so best leave it for now instead of posting vulgar comments against each other. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 14:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Secret of Success, 20 plus films for an article of this size is too long. What will you do if some Telugu/Kannada/Hindi user comes in and say include 10 more films. I was the one who wanted the list to get trimmed, but Salih is more keen to include Malayalam movies (He has included one more). He doesn't care even if the table is removed. I'm still looking for a valid rationale to retain it. And what do you mean by vulgarity? I don't see any vulgarity from both of us. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 14:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

• Even if you trim the table to 12 films, people will come and add Telugu/Kannada/Hindi/Malayalam/Tamil. What will you do then?
• I am keen to include a couple of Malayalam films... well I never argued for removing the other language films.
• A size of 20 is not too long. Look the table of notable films in Rajinikanth.
• He doesn't care even if the table is removed. - It is better to remove it than keeping a lopsided table.
• I have included one more (Madanolsavam). This movie was dubbed into Hindi as Dil Ka Sath Dil and Tamil as Paruvamazhai, which clearly shows that it was a notable movie.
• As of now you are the only person gunning for removal of some of the films. Salih (talk) 17:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I can see one more discussion regarding notable filmography that had taken place before 18 months. User:SpacemanSpiff, has said the notable filmography shouldn't exceed 10-12. Myself and Johannes are ready to go with 15 films. It won't be good if it goes beyond that. Hope it's clear. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 14:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

No, a film being dubbed into another language does not extend its notability to any limit. I am not taking sides here, just trying to reason it out. As Salih says, even if you trim the list, there will be people who come to add other films, provide your justification for that. But if the movies are elaborated in the career section so that the each major shoot like Sigappu Rojakkal and a sufficient no. of notable ones from other languages are inserted, then we have a consensus. Using this excuse, please don't change Rajinikanth's page! Nothing stays done in Wikipedia, as User:Bollyjeff had once said. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 17:24, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

You are right; a film being dubbed into another language does not extend its notability to any limit. But, highly successful films are also dubbed into multiple languages.

Usually only those movies are notable enough may be elaborated in the career section. Such movies would find a place in the notable films list also.

If Vensatry's arguments are accepted as consensus, the next logical thing to do is to make changes in Rajinikanth's page also. Salih (talk) 03:57, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

See, I have provided a rationale saying that the film must have been recognised well at the National level, which means it must have won a National Award and films that have won International honors must be included or atleast the films must be like India's official Oscar entry or must have made a good business other than it's original language. Regarding Rajinikanth, not many of his films have won awards. But I'm ready to go with changes in his page also. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 12:43, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

All right, you have made your point. But on what basis will you put notable films in Rajinikanth's page, as many of his films have not won awards?? Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 14:59, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

"Film must have been recognised well at the National level, which means it must have won a National Award and films that have won International honors must be included." Are they Wikipedia policies for the inclusion of films in the notable filmography or your own policies? Salih (talk) 15:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Salih, you are misunderstanding. What User:Vensatry means is that since many of Kamal's films have won National or International honors, it would be useful to decide upon his most notable films using this criteria. They are more notable than Filmfare awards, so it would prove as a sufficient factor to reduce the list. Anyway, he has agreed to trim Rajinikanth's list as you requested, so this argument ends. Secret of success ^{Talk to me} 16:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to Secret of Success for explaining. Salih, is there any specific policy in WP which states, films that have been dubbed into other lannguages must be included in "Notable filmography". If that is your argument, more than 100 of his films were actually dubbed into Telugu and many of them were super hits there as well. So can we include all those 100 films. Think sensibly. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 01:40, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Rajini's page, you are the one who said it should be changed. So you have to provide the rationale. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 01:43, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Now this thread has turned out to be the lengthiest discussion about the article. We need consensus at this point, as I don't want to lengthen this further. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 12:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

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should the Viswaroopam controversy be also added

I think that is a point to discuss as it snow balled into a huge one (Alex.mathews (talk) 08:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC))

We can wait till this issue is over and then we will be able to provide more insights to the readers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beemyouth (talk • contribs) 11:19, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit war

Please discuss your changes on talk page.--Dravidianhero (talk) 16:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Category addition requested

• Please add Category:Best Actor National Film Award winners without removing the Category:National Film Award winners as Haasan has won NFA in other categories too. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 09:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

  Kamal Haasan was not edit protected, but I have added the category. iComputerSaysNo 11:30, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

  It was protected when the request was made. Torreslfchero (talk) 11:37, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

update info

information on vishwaroopam is not updated in the career section. someone pls do so, bcoz i m not an admin. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 April 2013

Please change "He secured his second Indian National Film Award for his portrayal of a guileless school teacher who tends a childlike amnesiac in 1982's Moondram Pirai" to "He secured his first Indian National Film Award for his portrayal of a guileless school teacher who tends a childlike amnesiac in 1982's Moondram Pirai" in the second paragraph of the article because it is kamal haasan's first national award for best actor and the same can be verified in the para titled 1980s in the same article wherein it is "he won his first of three National Awards for Best Actor with his portrayal of a school teacher who looks after an amnesia patient in Balu Mahendra's Moondram Pirai,"

thank you

Truthdrive (talk) 14:29, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

If u have the capability, pls do it urself. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

No opposition to this request, so  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:12, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

request for addition of information

please change "Since then he has gone on to appear in other notable films such as Anbe Sivam and his own productions, Hey Ram and Virumaandi, as well as Dasavathaaram, in which he appeared in ten distinct roles" to "Since then he has gone on to appear in other notable films such as Indian, Anbe Sivam, Dasavathaaram and his own productions, Hey Ram, Virumaandi as well as Vishwaroopam, directed by himself" because Dasavathaaram was not produced by Kamal Haasan, it was Venu Ravichandran of Aascar films who produced the movie(reference link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasavathaaram#cite_ref-59). Also, there is no updation on Vishwaroopam, which is Kamal Haasan's latest movie, produced and directed by himself(reference link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishwaroopam), kindly update

thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthdrive (talk • contribs) 15:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Final warning

Although assessed as a good article, the damage done to the article can't be measured. I request professional editors to pls clean it up, else it will be delisted. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:50, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Adhering to neutral point of view

The recent edits made by User:Truthdrive is not adhering to neutral point of view. As per the wikipedia policy on BLP's, "Contentious material about living persons (or in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material :is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." Also read WP:burden before adding back such contents. JK (talk) 17:22, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Notable filmography

Considering the heated arguments that we had in the past and the day-to-day edit wars, I'm really tired of reverting fanatics. So the best alternative is to do away with this section. —Vensatry _{(Ping me)} 05:40, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

It's okay if you are tired; the others will take care of it.:) Wikipedia is a mammoth project and it does not depend on any single editor. Putting a summary of notable filmography in an actor's bio is a good practice. Salih (talk) 07:39, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

When I say "I am" it collectively refers to some responsible good-faith editors apart from me. Keeping arguments (like what films to include) aside, I don't see a proper reason to include this section when the word notable itself is highly subjective. I always wanted to retain the section for some reason, but after seeing the page being altered daily with new films (often personal favorites) being added/removed, I don't think the article will be stable anymore. Also I'm not going to revert you since the article has already gone into a stage that is very far from the GA stuff. Good luck with maintaining the page. —Vensatry _{(Ping me)} 07:57, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

method actors

Please try to correct.

we can only use reliably published sources, not any old thing we find on google. Claims about living people require the highest standard of sourcing.. And we should only be using secondary sources. The guidance is pretty clear that " "Going down the Bollywood chute...with David Chute should not be used." —Ajith real7 (talk) 04:34, 29 April 2013‎ (UTC)

Are you really new to this project? —Vensatry _{(Ping me)} 08:35, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

the cut and paste use of other peoples edit summaries and content strikes me as very similar to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mealwaysrockz007/Archive. and [7] from the blocked sock and [8] from Aijith real7] pretty much seals the deal.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 09:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

and I have opened the case.~Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Mealwaysrockz007 -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 09:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

No doubt, the account is a duck sock. JK (talk) 09:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Was his father was militant or freedom fighter

How can be someone a militant before independence of India because they were fighting for our nation. That can be right in prespective of British rulers but how we can put that up on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nscharan007 (talk • contribs) 21:36, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

WP:LABEL. We do not use "freedom fighter". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:42, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi I seriously do not know how to get a source through internet. But Kamal Haasan is a Tamilian as known to anyone. His original name "Parthasarathy" (called by his mom) is a best example. Its the name of Tamilians. So when citing his personal life it can be mentioned that he is born into a Tamil Family to D.Srinivasan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.136.181.103 (talk) 12:58, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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