Talk:Hidden ball trick

Duplicate and conflicting comments on page re: legality

For reference, Rule 8.05i of the Official Rules of Baseball states: "If there is a runner, or runners (on base), it is a balk when - the pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitcher's plate or while off the plate, he feints a pitch." This means that the pitch can step on the *mound* - that being the 18 foot imaginary circle around the pitcher's plate - without the ball. However, if he stands on or astride the rubber without the ball, that is when the balk is called. --OntarioQuizzer 11:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Corrections

A recent edit changed this:

However, the hidden ball trick is illegal (and a balk is called) if the pitcher is standing on or astride the pitcher's rubber.

To this:

However, the hidden ball trick is illegal (and a balk is called) if the pitcher is anywhere on the pitcher's mound.

This is apparently with reference to rule 8.05i, mentioned in the section above. But the rule quoted only applies if the pitcher feints a pitch. The balk only occurs if the pitcher feints a pitch or steps onto the rubber. The description of the trick on in the article doesn't say anything about the pitcher feinting a pitch (which he wouldn't do, since it would be a balk), so the thing about the pitcher's mound is irrelevant. Accordingly, I put it back the way it was before.

The edit also changed this:

but actually hides the ball under his shirt.

To this:

but actually hides the ball on his person.

But I think the original was better because it was more specific.

-- Dominus 03:33, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

It was incorrectly specific. Players also hide the ball in their glove. —Cleared as filed. 03:34, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

OK. -- Dominus 04:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the snippiness of my edit summary, but when I went 10 minutes without seeing a new message on the talk page, I assumed you were pointing me to the notice by OntarioQuizzer up above, and ignoring the fact that you had reverted the part about where the ball was hidden. Still, I don't think more specific was more accurate in this case. —Cleared as filed. 03:38, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I wish I could have done it more quickly, but it takes time to write a clear and detailed explanation. -- Dominus 04:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Added a citation request to the 300 successful figure. I don't consider it particularly doubtful, but it ought to come from a particular source.Trinite 02:09, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking. Retrosheet used to have a list of all of them but it seems to have vanished. --W.marsh 02:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Here's the archive, with 250 confirmed and 35 possible: [1]. Not sure why they seem to have purged the list from their site. --W.marsh 14:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Deleted "Hidden Ball Trick in Pop Culture" section

My reasoning is this: the article already gives recent instances of the trick, and MLB baseball is definitely part of popular culture. So the section I deleted was more like "Hidden Ball Trick in Hollywood Movies" was is irrelevant and unimportant. Justin Bailey 03:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that it should be in the article becuase it has to do with the trick being used. The section should be like Hidden Ball Trick in Movies or somthing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flyingcar73242 (talk • contribs) 00:42, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

yeah i actually just looked up the trick because i heard about it on the movie rookie of the year just now on HBO24.105.236.66 (talk) 22:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Bush League Play!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.62.126 (talk) 20:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Sources

Where is the source for the information about Matt Williams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flogbishop (talk • contribs) 09:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Source??

Can someone provide a source that this typically happens at second base? I have been watching baseball for 35 years, and the only times I have ever seen this happen is at first base. Maybe I have been lucky to only see this happen in a minority of cases, but I figure my unsourced observations are as strong as any other unsourced assertion. LonelyBeacon (talk) 22:11, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

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