Talk:Grand Master (Freemasonry)

Mentioning the current GM of UGLE

There are over a thousand Masonic Jurisdictions, and thus over a thousand Grand Masters. To single out the Duke of Kent (the current Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England) for mention gives a decidedly UK bias to the article. The point of this article is to explain what a Grand Master is, not to name drop.

By similar reasoning, we also don't need to mention the Pro Grand Master (essentially the Grand Master's deptuty). We can probably mention that Grand Masters will often have Deputy Grand Masters, or Pro Grand Masters who are either elected or appointed to act for them in their absence (and in some jurisdictions do the day to day running of the Grand Lodge)... but we don't need to name names. Blueboar (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Whilst I would agree with this principle (and we certainly don't want to get into the boring practice of long lists of non-notable names), I also think that the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater here. The existence of a "UK bias" may sometimes be an over-zealous reading of a simple historical fact or description. Although the UGLE has no superior rights or powers to other grand lodges (and does not claim any), it IS the world's oldest Grand Lodge; and whilst Americans may have a historical inclination towards independence (!) it does seem to be true that within the European and Commonwealth Grand Lodges there is a certain afforded status given to UGLE as the world's oldest Grand Lodge: a position of primus inter pares. This manifests itself in many little ways, such as other jurisdictions taking a lead from UGLE over recognition, or UGLE being able to assist in solving disagreements or problems. At the very least, there is an argument for treating the Grand Master of UGLE differently.

Additionally, I strongly suspect (though haven't the time to research it) that at 42 years, the Grand Master of UGLE is by far the longest-serving Grand Master, which might surely be noteworthy in an article about Grand Masters.

Finally, and returning to the baby/bathwater business, I think the fact that the UGLE Grand Master is usually a member of royalty or nobility is most definitely relevant. This is a defining feature of the office in England, which may be more difficult to understand for those who live in a republic, but within a monarchy is rather an important distinction. I don't mean 'important' for the members of UGLE (though it is!); I mean something that speaks to all subjects of that monarchy of the status of the organisation. The removal of the line explaining that English Grand Masters are usually royal or noble actually diminishes the understanding of the article for those who live in a monarchically-structured society.

As a postscript, I intend to clarify the position with a Pro Grand Master; it is not the same thing as a Deputy Grand Master, as the current revision certainly implies. Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 17:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Grand Master (Masonic) vs Grand Master (freemasonry)

What was the reason for moving this article twice in one day? Personally, Grand Master (freemasonry) makes more sense to me. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 22:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

The article was moved without discussion, that's all. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 23:32, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

That is correct. Not only is the capitalization incorrect on the moved page, but I really don't see a need to move this simply to change the disambig term to something more clunky. The editor that moved this is disrupting too much without discussion. MSJapan (talk) 02:24, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree with @Gaia Octavia Agrippa: What do you mean by "disambig term" and a "clunky term"? When it's a name of brand or a religion and it's adherents etc., fine, however what is the reasoning behind capitalisation of "freemasonry", "freemasons" or "masonic", though? Chicbyaccident (talk) 06:19, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

@User:Chicbyaccident, which part of "without discussion" did you not understand? Articles are not moved or renamed on the whim of individual editors, there is a procedure involving discussion on the article's talk page and informing relevant projects so that interested editors can have their opinion taken into consideration. You can't seem to grasp that you did something wrong, inconvenienced the people that had to put it right, and you continually refuse to see your disruption for what it is.

In this title, Masonic is capitalised to distinguish is from operative stonemasonry. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 23:06, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

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'Pro' Grand Master

Just added what the 'Pro' part of Pro Grand Master stands for - comes from Latin for 'for' (ie: he stand in 'for the Grand Master'), and therefore helps explain why this is a distinct position to Deputy Grand Master. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexmb (talk • contribs) 14:21, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Regular Masonic jurisdiction which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:41, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Light

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