Talk:Friedrich Scherfke

Scherfke victim of expulsion?

A question to user Matthead. Why are you stating that Scherfke was a victim of expulsion? He was drafted into the Wehrmacht, and was caught by the British in Western Germany. Nobody expelled him from Poznan. Tymek (talk) 17:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You don't really expect anyone to answer such a question, do you? -- Matthead  Discuß   18:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, I do. When was he expelled from Poznan? Waiting. Tymek (talk) 18:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to share that, see Wikipedia_talk:German-speaking_Wikipedians'_notice_board#What_is_Expulsion? -- Matthead  Discuß   18:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a biography

This article isn't about history. If you are interested in expulsions, take part in editing historical articles.Xx236 (talk) 06:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Would anybody write an article about Anne Frank e.g., who was born in Germany leaving to the Netherlands in 1933, without mentioning the Nazis ? There´s no evidence or source that her family left because of the Nazis, but claiming they left on their free decision because Amsterdam is such a beautiful city would be - quiet biased. Nobody says Scherfke was expelled, but not to mention the fact that Germans were expelled and Scherfke had no chance to return is - quiet biased.(84.139.240.79 (talk) 10:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC))

Dear anon, please register yourself. We do not add irrelevant information, if you yourself have admitted nobody says Scherfke was expelled, it explains all. This article is not about expulsions. Tymek (talk) 12:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you think it´s irrelevant to mention 1933 situation in Germany talking about Anne Frank ? The background is relevant, Scherfke didn´t move to Berlin because it was a beautiful city (in 1945) and not mentioning a historical important background is nothing else but biased. (84.139.240.222 (talk) 13:57, 22 June 2008 (UTC))

Was Poznan a beautiful city in 1945? I doubt it. Anyway, this kind background, which is expulsions, is irrelevant to the article. He did not leave Poznan in early 1945 because of the advancing Red Army, he did not leave Poznan after World War Two because of Allied-ordered expulsions. A question - why did he leave Poznan some time in 1941, 42, 43 or 44? Maybe he found a wife in Berlin? Neither of us knows. Tymek (talk) 16:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Posen was his home town, for crying out loud. He was drafted into the Wehrmacht, and when he was released as POW in July 1945, wild expulsions had already happened, and the Potsdam Agreement would soon be in effect. -- Matthead  Discuß   17:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Poznan was his hometown, but we have no idea until when. I know that in August of 1939 he was the coach and at the same time player of Warta Poznan, as Warta's coach from Hungary had left Poland, fearing the oncoming war. What happened with him after September 1939, we do not know. He might have left Poznan as early as fall of 1939, you cannot determine it. Maybe he was living in Berlin between late 1939 and 1944? Neither of us knows that. Tymek (talk) 22:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Please move page to Fryderyk Scherfke

Fryderyk II Wielki ?

there is no evidence that he was called Friedrich Scherfke. Just the claim of User:Matthead. See e.g. google. He did not provide a reliable source on de as well; de:Diskussion:Fryderyk Scherfke ...Sicherlich ^Post 23:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

As we know, at present there are only Polish sources (direct and indirect) about him as a footballer in the Polish team, where he was listed as Fryedryk Szerfke according to FIFA.com at the 1938 WC. Let's move to that spelling, as I already had done at the German Wikipedia. What if we had only Polish sources about the person pictured to the right? As long as it is a Polish habit to Polonize names ("Mikolaj Kopernik"), they have to be taken with a grain of salt. Fritz Scherfke was born in 1909 Prussia to German parents, the first 10+ years as well as the last 40+ years of his life he spent in Germany. -- Matthead  Discuß   08:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Matthead, nothing stops you from finiding German sources. Tymek (talk) 12:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Facts

User Matthead has spurred me into action and this is the result of my search:

• according to the official page of the Polish Olympic Commitee, Scherfke was the son of Gustaw Fryderyk and Albertyna Ida Krenz. During WW2 he was the soldier of the Wehrmacht, released on July 25, 1945 in British occupation zone, he did not return to Schwerin to his wife Hannelore (source [1]),
• Gazeta Wyborcza writes: At the beginning of the war Scherfke put on a German uniform and then settled in Berlin (source: [2]),
• football historian Andrzej Gowarzewski wrote in his Fuji Football Encyclopedia Bialo-czerwoni (White-red): After the war Scherfke settled in West Berlin and was a frequenter at a local Polish restaurant Polska Strzecha. An elderly, classy gentleman assured me that he was the best penalty scorer [in the Polish national team] and he had been given the task before the game [Poland v. Brazil 1938]. Tymek (talk) 01:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Facts Expulsions of German did not only start in 1945

According to Polish newspaper Gustav Friedrich Scherfke and Albertina Ida Krenz were married. Son Friedrich Fritz Egon Scherfke was born in 1909 in Posen, German Empire. (Jego bratem był Günther Scherfke, znany zawodnik Warty Poznań). The brother of Fritz was Günther Scherfke, also in the Posen futbol-team.

Already starting in 1920, when their homeland forcibly became Poland with the dictated "Treaty of Versailles", expulsions of Germans (from the new Poland , as well as the new Czechoslowakia) went on for decades. The Scherfke family remained in their home town, despite severe expulsions and chicanery by the new Polish regime, whose aim it was to oust all Germans.

According to Polish newspaper Fritz was married to his wife Hannelore and when Fritz was released into British occupation zone in 1945 , he did not return to Schwerin, Schwerin is in northern Germany in Soviet occupied territory and massive amounts of refugees, expellees moved through all of northern Germany in the years of 1944-49. So did Hannelore Scherfke already join the refuges from Posen? did Hannelore live in one of the make-shift refugee camps on the way? did she have relatives in Schwerin ? Or was Fritz and Hannelore already living in Schwerin, because of the severe expulsion pressure put on the Germans in Posen and elsewhere in the Polish Corridor of former Germany? An Observer 23.6.2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.133.68.253 (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Strangely enough, I feel like I am surrouded by anons, who appear from nowhere and promote their chauvinistic, antipolish and irrelevant opinions both here and in the article itself. I am not going to talk to anons, who write one post and then vanish. Please register yourself. Tymek (talk) 17:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Dispute

Hiya, I'm just popping in as an uninvolved admin, gathering information on certain disputes for the Working group on cultural and ethnic edit wars. If folks have time, I'd be interested in a summary of the causes of the dispute here? Thanks, Elonka 04:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it started after some user tried to add an information about the fact that Germans from Scherfke´s hometown were expelled after World War II and Scherfke couldn´t return to his place of birth (the reason why he lived in Berlin after 1945). But mentioning this background seems to be inaccaptable for some other users, who like to call this "finding a new home".(84.139.250.141 (talk) 08:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC))

Dear another anon, any kind of sourced background in any article is good. However, in the case of Scherfke, we have no idea if he was expelled from Poznan, as we do not know his fate in the period between September 1939 and May 1945. He was caught by the British in western Germany and did not return to Schwerin, deciding to settle in Berlin. It all means that he was not expelled, as from information gathered here we know that he must have lived in Schwerin, not in Poznan, before May of 1945. Tymek (talk) 16:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

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