Talk:Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan

This is a separate article, why?

Why isn't this simply in the SRV article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.236.79.85 (talk) 12:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

See above for the link to the previous unsuccessful deletion nomination. I just love the nominator's description of how the existence of this article makes Wikipedia out to be "a fansite". Some statistics; at the time of this writing, this is how many articles exist on Wikipedia which cover *individual episodes* of the following American television series:

Series	# of articles
Buffy the Vampire Slayer	185
Desperate Housewives	201
Family Guy	231
Friends	249
House	184
The Office	194
The Outer Limits (both series combined)	190
Seinfeld	178
The Simpsons	555
South Park	275
Star Trek (all series combined)	713
The Twilight Zone (all series combined)	309
The X-Files	207

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Requested move 12 April 2020

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move, after extended time for discussion. BD2412 T 21:49, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan → 1990 East Troy, Wisconsin helicopter crash – The title "Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan" may not be appropriate because it ignores the other victims. Suggesting "1990 East Troy, Wisconsin helicopter crash" because that title is consistent with other articles about helicopter crashes, and the recent renames of 2001 Marsh Harbour Cessna 402 crash and 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash both reinforce this idea. 64222368Z260O (talk) 06:33, 12 April 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. buidhe 18:16, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, if only for imbalanced comma usage contrary to WP:USPLACE and MOS:GEOCOMMA. Note that neither of those other article titles have commas in them. (Also note that the Death of Joseph Smith article has a title that does not mention the death of Joseph Smith's brother in the same lynching incident.) —BarrelProof (talk) 09:27, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
• Support, I would suggest simply 1990 East Troy helicopter crash. Such a move would bring the title more in line with Accident article naming conventions. To make it a little easier for editors to read the discussions the nom made reference to, I've added them here. Talk:2001 Marsh Harbour Cessna 402 crash#Requested move 31 January 2020 and Talk:2020 Calabasas helicopter crash#Requested move 28 January 2020 - Samf4u (talk) 14:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. This is an encyclopedia – "unfair to the other victims" is not an article titling criteria. What the common name would be is. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Comment I can only assume you did not read it, but WP:COMMONNAME was brought up in the 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash discussion to no avail. - Samf4u (talk) 15:07, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

The 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash is a more complex situation, but I absolutely would have opposed moving the Death of Aaliyah article had I seen it – there is no universe where "2001 Marsh Harbour Cessna 402 crash" is the "common name" for that over the "Death of Aaliyah". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, The entire reason for inclusion of this particular helicopter crash on Wikipedia as a stand alone page is due to the death of Stevie Ray Vaughan, as a celebrity. To suggest that it is "not appropriate because it ignores the other victims" brings into play a rather obvious question: Why then aren't all helicopter crashes resulting in deaths afforded their own individual page on Wikipedia? What exactly is your standard at that point? There is a List of accidents and incidents involving helicopters, but that isn't the same as a situation where either a celebrity dies or a dramatic/controversial situation and/or number of deaths in one crash lead(s) to a dedicated Wikipedia page. For instance, the Vic Morrow death in a helicopter is labeled differently as the Twilight Zone accident due to the infamous nature of the crash on a movie set. Even the 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash is debatable in terms of the name of the page, because if not for Kobe Bryant being on board, it would not have its own page. Before the argument about there being another "famous person" in John Altobelli being on board, Altobelli alive does not have his own page, the weight of his life became noteworthy towards Wikipedia in terms of having his own page due to his death in the Kobe crash, as indicated by the 27 January 2020 creation date of the page, after his death in said crash.

I would be more in support of moving this entire page to the Stevie Ray Vaughan page itself, and including it into a 3 paragraph section, than to change the name of this page to such an obscure title. I believe an honest assessment should be made for any of these pages (apparently there are a bunch) involving small aircraft/helicopter where the names are being set up not as the death of the celebrity involved, but as the date and name of the aircraft involved. It seems very odd in review, when you realize that in most of the cases, there would not be an individual page on Wikipedia for most of them except for the death of the celebrity in the first place. 1991_Vallejo_helicopter_crash comes to mind.

Are we ready to create a stand alone page for every aircraft crash resulting in death? If that is the goal, I guess I wouldn't have an issue with the idea of changing the name. But as long as the entire reason for inclusion on Wikipedia of a particular page is the death of the celebrity in question, and lesser known persons in other accidents do not get their own page, what sort of sense does it make to label the page in by "Date - Location/Type of Helicopter"? Do magazine articles, CNN headlines, newspaper articles, and other media providers ever lead an article that way? They always lead in with the name of the celebrity. I believe it is appropriate to do the same thing here. RTShadow (talk) 05:56, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. But use 1990 East Troy helicopter crash. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. The death of SRV is a notable topic, and that's what this article is about. The helicopter crash is non-notable, apart from that. It's heavily covered in the article of course, but if SRV hadn't been aboard the crash would not even rate a mention in the encyclopedia. Andrewa (talk) 01:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose - Proposed rename is awkward, lengthy, and not likely to be what a reader is searching for when desiring to read up on the contents of this article. Renames like this do not aid the average reader, which is our goal here, first and foremost. Sergecross73 msg me 16:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Barrel roll

@Bottleknight: you have added a statement that the helicopter crashed while performing a barrel roll, without providing any citation. I have searched for a source for this and have not found anything. Please provide a source for this statement. CodeTalker (talk) 19:33, 1 January 2021 (UTC)