Talk:Cretan Muslims

Haifa?

Does anybody have any sources or further reading about Cretan Muslims who were relocated/ moved to Haifa? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.235.177.63 (talk) 07:57, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Sharing family names, etc.

We read

In fact many of them made reunion visits to distant relatives in Lebanon, in Crete and even other parts of Greece where some of the cousins may still share the family name but follow a different religion.

The allegation in cursive is very very unlikely. Practically all the Cretans living in Turkey today have abandoned their original names and taken new names in the wake of the Turkish surname reform in the 1920s, and it is only quite exceptionally that the family recalls their original name - always in -akis - if they ever had any. I have never come across an allegation of the sort [referred to above] which smacks of "Crypto-Christian" thinking. The fact remains, however, that many Muslim Cretans in today's Turkey have made reunion visits to Crete and have been warmly welcomed by today's Cretans.

About the plural "Cretan dialects" there is the following to be said: The origin villages of today's Cretans in Turkey can be determined to a surprising degree of accuracy by isoglosses, f.ex. with the help of the 'Cretan Dialect Atlas' by Nicolas Contossopoulos.

I have deleted the passage in question. Hirpex (talk) 23:24, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 21 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 01:52, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

---

Cretan Turks → Cretan Muslims – After a recently blocked sockpuppet tried to remove the alternative term Cretan Muslims two months ago, i noticed that according to Google Books (here and here), its affiliated service Google Ngram Viewer (here), and Google Scholar (here and here), the term Cretan Muslims is significantly more common than Cretan Turks. Furthermore, the term Turk can cause ambiguity, since it can be used in an ethnic, national, and religious context; among others. In our case, the article deals with the historical Muslim community of Crete, who was predominantly of Greek ethnic background, and whose descendants can be found in a number of countries; not just Turkey. Demetrios1993 (talk) 19:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. echidnaLives - talk - edits 09:16, 29 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. ^Clyde!_Franklin! 09:34, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Wikipedia needs to reflect on facts and sources, and that is to use a term more accurate and inclusive in describing the Muslim community as whole. Baptising all non-Turkish Muslims as as "Cretan Turks", besides being factually incorrect, is also violating the Wikipedia's core content policy, WP:NPOV, which requires that the article titles are neutral. This isn't the case here, since the current title "Cretan Turks" is promoting a certain modern-day political POV narrative maintained among nationalist and Islamist circles in Turkey according to which all the Muslim subjects of the Ottoman Empire, including those in Crete were all Turks. Wikipedia ought to carefully avoid such POV-pushing titles like this.

Also, a side note to those unfamiliar with the problems related to the present title: the RM is initiated at a politically sensitive period where there is growing historical revisionism and territorial irredentism in Turkey, where officials from the Government-led alliance are targeting Crete [1] due to its Ottoman past. Wikipedia's community is being reminded that this isn't the only incident in recent times where Muslim subjects of the Ottoman Empire were attempted to be portrayed as Turkish on Wikipedia because of politics; another such case is the article of the Albnanian Ottoman ruler Muhammad Ali Pasha for which there were unsuccessful efforts on the article's talk page recently in challenging his Albanian origin in favor of a Turkish one. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 01:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2023 name controversy

"Cretan muslims" is promoting a certain modern-day political POV narrative maintained among nationalist circles who reject Turkish minority bu calling them "muslims" in Greece. 85.97.29.213 (talk) 20:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

robertsky Why did you do that change with two support opinion. 151.135.140.21 (talk) 23:21, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

because that're all who had contributed to the discussion after it being opened for 21 days, which is way more than the typical 7 days for RM discussions. Consensus is achieved based on the participation, not lackof. Raise another WP:RM discussion if you think there should be a change in the name of the title. – robertsky (talk) 02:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)