Talk:Characters of Kingdom Hearts

Riku true keyblade master

it was heavily hinted that Riku was the original chosen keyblade master and that sora only got it by mistake since riku led his heart into darkness and wasn't strong enough. In hallow bastion, he gets it from sora proving that he was the original chosen to be keyblade master.

in kingdom hearts 2 final mix, lingering sentiment assumes sora is someone else because he had the keyblade. lingering sentiment says he wasn't the one he chosen yet he also said he remembered him? in kingdom hearts birth by sleep, the scene of Terra watching young sora and young riku playing swords and ven asking aqua to erase him was probably the moment Terra chose riku.

since terra (obviously lingering sentiment) said to sora he known him, but yet thought he was someone else, doesnt that prove riku was chosen since riku could be the only one to be chosen at the time?Linder1990 (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

If you don't mind my interjection: all the talk of who was the "true" Keyblade Master seemed to be only a matter of subterfuge in an attempt to manipulate the protagonists. Riku's only source was what Maleficent/Ansem had told him and the only undeniable "proof" he had was when he took the Keyblade from Sora. If you are going to say the proof for Riku being the "true" Keyblade master is when "he gets [the keyblade] from Sora", then wouldn't it be rather significant that Sora took the Keyblade back? Discounting the manipulative dialogue of antagonistic characters, in the series there was never any other talk of a "true" Keyblade master, let alone whether Sora or Riku was this "master". I think the trading back and forth of the keyblade between the two characters only shows that Keyblade wielders both have influence over the blade (refer to the fight between Sora and Roxas in KH2), otherwise, I don't think there is enough empirical data within any of the currently released games to prove either character is the "true" keyblade master. Also consider that by Kingdom Hearts 2, all Keyblade wielding characters have their own Keyblades, and aren't trading back and forth.
PS. -
How can you think to consider evidence from scanned Japanese articles translated by fans of currently unreleased game as a verifiable source? You are only making assumptions so far, the scan pages don't actually say Terra chose anyone. You can only say Riku is the chosen "Keyblade Master" if the Birth By Sleep actually explicitly shows or says this. Conjecture and assumptions from fan-translated scans that only hint to possible plot points isn't verifiable or reliable.
Watemon (talk) 13:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From Director's Secret Report:

There should be a hint about Riku being a chosen wielder hidden discreetly somewhere in the additions to the game, so certainly try and find it.

From the journal:

Riku was actually the rightful master of the Keyblade, but once he chose darkness over light, the weapon chose Sora instead.

It's pretty clear that Riku was the chosen master, but when he gave his heart over to darkness, it was too weak to accept the Keyblade, and it went to Sora instead.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, let's not forget that in The World that Never Was, Riku actually had a Keyblade: Way to the Dawn. This could mean something.

Also, about main character pages

why not keep a brief and small description of sora riku and kairi in this article, and give much more heavy detail when you make a separate one for them? there's plenty of information on sora, more than this article shows. i mean, you did it for organization XIII, so why not sora riku and kairi?Linder1990 (talk) 16:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree with you more, my friend. Nintendoman01 talk, 9:17, 21 May 2009

Find enough reliable sources, and we'll certainly consider it. I've stumbled across a few here and there for Sora, but barely anything for Riku and Kairi. The number of sources for Sora is borderline in my opinion, especially with so little about the character's development/creation. Without that, I'd say the article would be content forking. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC))

regarding VEN!

there is no official kanji for "ventus" therefore we should not use ventus as a name. the name isnt official. so we should not use it.Haseo445 (talk) 17:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: if i see any of you guys editing it to ventus, i'll reedit ti back to how it was.Haseo445 (talk) 17:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain Ventus has appeared in the promotional materials. Please let me find some sources before you revert it.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 20:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

no, there's nothing saying "ventus", the obvious hint that tetsuya nomura and tai yasue gave was that his name means wind, just like terra means earth in latin, though the name was never made official AND there was no official kanji for his name. therefore we should avoid saying the name ventus.Haseo445 (talk) 15:31, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Cloud's voice

If anyone happens to know who does the voice of Cloud in Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, and Kingdom Hearts II, please edit this and include the name. It must be both the english voice acotr and Japanese voice actor, as well as a reference. Thank you.

                                                  -Mia  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.153.34 (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC) 

Remove Roxas's section

I propose to remove Roxas's section as he is fully described in Organization XIII's article. It is not the same case as Donald, Goofy or Maleficent, which are characters that existed before KH and that have individual articles. Organization XIII is already mentioned and linked, so I see no reason to include Roxas in this list and exclude the rest of the organization, especially Xenmas. --LoЯd ۞pεth 19:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

While I can see your reasoning, I'm afraid I have to disagree. Omitting Roxas from this article will leave a hole for general readers; he was a significant character in the story and was playable for the first part of KHII. Because the character is fully covered in Organization XIII, his section was purposefully left bare bones here. Also, Xemnas, is another significant character, is covered in the Xehanort and Org XIII sections of this article. Much like the Ansem villian in the first game, he's certainly not excluded. He just doesn't have his own section; Ansem and Xemnas were combined to form the Xehanort section. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC))

Re:KrytenKoro's edits

Long edit with too many different things going on to explain in the edit summary bar.

• removed reference to the fact that Kairi couldn't remember her time at Radiant Garden---not relevant to anything else, not a key aspect of her character
• Replica--->clone, references to Riku Replica stay in CoM article, I guess. The random capitalization would be confusing
• It's not totally clear what happens when Ansem's machine explodes or why so it's best to leave it vague.
• Mickey's thing reworded for great justice
• Bolster defenses? Not cited, but not terribly important anyway---removed
• Xion thing not too important to Ansem's section---removed
• Machine explode thing again, same reasoning
• Namine thing at end is cute, but not significant
• Roxas R/replica, same reason
• "Forbidden", not cited, not too important anyway---removed

So yeah. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• Replica is the term used in 358/2 Days, and is an important story concept disparate from a simple clone. It should be used.
• I'm fairly certain that there is a quote explaining that the machine disrupted the hearts, but it's not worth reinserting without that quote. In any case, we need to explain what the machine is for - right now, it makes no sense whatsoever.
• The Namine thing at the end is similar to the scene at the castle that never was, which is also mentioned. If we don't want either scene, that's fine, I personally don't get why either of them would be significant beyond plot synopsis.
• Forbidden is the name of the weapon as given in 358/2 Days. Cite it to that if you want, but it needs to be reinserted.

Roxas's section should have a main link to the Organization XIII page's section on him, I think.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 00:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok:

• Used replica, uncapitalized
• Tried to explain the machine concisely
• Removed extra Namine scene
• We don't mention any other weapon names, not even Kingdom Key or Way to (the) Dawn. I haven't played 358/2 Days (clearly), but it's hard to imagine a scenario in which its name is that significant, especially compared to the other two weapon names I mentioned.
• I removed the thing about Johnny Depp/James Arnold Taylor since I removed all other voice actors except for the main characters'.
• Roxas' section has a link to his section at the Org XIII page. I don't think "main article" is the best way to do it, since it's not really his own article.

So yeah. Axem Titanium (talk) 13:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Just chiming in- I think the string of edits that have taken place the past few days are a good balance and really helped the article. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC))

List reorganization

Sorry, User:137.187.40.49 was me. Somehow I got logged out without noticing. Anyway, I thought it would be nice to be able to actually have links in the TOC. I made slight rewords in the antagonist sections to make it clear that they are indeed villains. I left playable/super important characters in the "main" section. Conceivably, we could bump Donald and Goofy to "other" and move Xehanort up since he's pretty "main" too. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:26, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, been busy with off wiki things. Logging off has happened to me before too. I think the login times out.

Anyway, I've thought about getting the TOC expanded also, but I'm not sure what is the best way. I think the current structure works well, and would like to avoid major changes involving the main characters. We could manually create a TOC like in Characters of Final Fantasy XII. Of course, it won't update any changes to headings, which could lead to some problems down the road. Another option I've been thinking about is to significantly trim the "Other characters" section. Trim plot details to absolute bare minimum, write it in a more generalized style, remove many of the subheadings. Basically try to reduce the amount of "listy"-ness to it. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC))

Well, there's only so much you can trim from "other characters" without removing them outright. I don't like the manual TOC idea because that's what we had before and it wasn't elegant. A problem I have with the current division between protagonists and antagonists is that the former has 10 sections while the latter only has 4, which seems kind of imbalanced. If it comes to that, we could call the sections "Central characters", "Other main characters", and have "Minor characters" be a subsection of the latter? Axem Titanium (talk) 15:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

By trim I mean finding some way to reorganize the "Other characters" content to remove the subheadings. The plot details are probably a small as we can get them, but maybe some redundancy between the sections can be trimmed with some generalizations. Getting it down to "Princesses of Heart", "Disney characters", "Final Fantasy characters", and maybe a few others would make a regular TOC possible. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:23, 21 July 2009 (UTC))

A semi-elegant, but kind-of-not, solution would be to replace the section headings with ";<big>Wonderland</big>", which would simulate the style of the headings without actually creating one. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:05, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if WP:MOS allows for that though. And the article must comply with MOS to keep its FA status. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC))

I'm sure the MOS doesn't say anything about it. I wouldn't mind straight up removing the headings but then I'd worry about the paragraphs turning into massive text blobs with no clear way to break them up. I think some kind of rearrangment so we could use TOClimit would be best. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Help:Section is the specific page I'm thinking of. It doesn't explicitly forbid doing that, but my gut tells me that it's not in the spirit of the guideline. The other thing is we'd have to use anchor tags to enable linking, which can make the wikicode messy. For example, <a name="Wonderland" id="Wonderland"></a>

Let me see if I can draft up a compact version of what I'm thinking about. Right now I'm not certain it will really fix things, but it's hard to know without something concrete to look at. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 19:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC))

just to let you know, it is definetly Riku Replica, not Riku clone nor Riku replica, it was originally created as a name, leave it that way —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.201.212 (talk) 08:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Aerial blades

are now Ethereal blades].Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 21:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Ansem Reports

Okay, I haven't found anything in the Xehanort and Ansem entries that would need this consideration, but the Ansem Reports are not trustworthy. Even if Ansem is telling the complete truth in the Secret Ansem Report, the original Ansem Report is greatly circumspect. So basically, you guys might want to either qualify any citations to the Ansem Reports, or replace them with citations to Nomura interviews. Again, I didn't spot any suspect use of them, so this might be an irrelevant discussion, and I'm sorry if it is.07:59, 5 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.94.192.235 (talk)

Umm.. Just thinking...

Don't ya think the each character should have it's own article? I mean, The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has more info because it has character's own article.Alpha`s Arceus:Are You Siding with the Humans?! 18:54, 6 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpha`s Arceus (talk • contribs)

Kingdom hearts wiki allows speculation and unsourced information, there are probably sources out there but we would need to find some in order to make there own article. please look up the general notability guide.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:30, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Most of the characters used to have their own articles but were edited into one for simpler navigation. However, perhaps Riku, Kairi and Xehanort could get their own. Evilgidgit (talk) 16:47, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I suggest against it. Maybe new sources have come up since I last looked, but I don't recall much in the way of development and reception for Riku, Kairi, or Xehanort. Without such content, the articles cannot exist on Wikipedia. The separate articles were originally merged into this one because alone they did not meet WP:NOTE, WP:VERIFY, and WP:RELIABLE. Currently, Sora (Kingdom Hearts) does a decent enough job, but this one and Organization XIII no longer meet WP:RELIABLE because fan sites do not count as reliable sources. Without reliable sources, the articles do not comply with WP:NOTE and WP:VERIFY either. In light of that, I plan to bring the article up for WP:FAR and WP:GAR next month. Hopefully proper sources can be found. If not, then the articles will have to be demoted. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 17:58, 9 January 2010 (UTC))

I agree with User:Guyinblack25 and I even suggest to bring Sora's article back to a redirect into the section of this list. The split resulted only in a bunch of in-universe and overdetailed plot. --LoЯd ۞pεth 05:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

In universe or over detailed plot, doesn't mean it has to be removed. it can be rewritten in real world perspective, though, it's not really in-universe, just some sections. Also the plot seems fine.

If there is such an article that has no real references and is completely based on in-universe perspective, then yes it can be removed completely and without redirecting.

really though i don't think it's a bad idea to make a character article for some characters. for one i think Riku article can be brought back. of course it all depends on how bring it back. i suggest making special pages before making the actual article.Bread Ninja (talk) 15:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

After expanding Sora's reception section, the only character I noted could pass notability is Roxas, but better first make the section and then return the article.Tintor2 (talk) 22:45, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

After doing some work in a sandbox I redirected Roxas (Kingdom Hearts). I still need to do some work there. By the way, what image should the article have?Tintor2 (talk) 20:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Port Royal section error

I'm sure that the descriptions for the undead pirates based off of Bo'Sun and Jacoby are the wrong way around. Have swapped them.

Also, Kingdom Hearts Wiki says that all three Pirates were voiced my John DiMaggio. Is this comfirmed somewhere else? Thejarofdirt882 (talk) 18:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Xehanort page

I've noticed that Sora and Roxas have their own separate pages. Shouldn't the same be done with Xehanort? I mean, he is the series' main villain and has made much more appearances than Roxas in the series, although in many different forms, but still, he is a major character on the same scale as Sora. Shouldn't there be a separate page for Xehanort? Jienum (talk) 23:00, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Read the the above paragraph. I was able to redirect Roxas' article as I found it passed WP:NOTE and other requirements. Besides, Xehanort only appears in Birth by Sleep while his alter-egos are the antagonists from the first games.Tintor2 (talk) 01:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

jacket

were can i purchase a character jacket of/for Transfomer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.197.161.59 (talk) 22:39, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of Kairi in Japanese

I'm interested in the Kingdom Hearts series, but I have never played it. In Japanese, there is only one word "Kairi" related to the sea, which means nautical mile. Its standard kanji compound word (jukugo) is ja:海里, and the non-standard one is 浬, which has been removed from the toyo kanji list. Has anyone talked about this before? --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 16:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Tetsuya nomura has stated that the Kai in Kairi can mean Sea, as for Sora means sky and Riku means Land. Plus if we add any other meaning that would be original research>Bread Ninja (talk) 20:10, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Yen Sid?

Um, while I'm only a UC (Unregistered Contributor) here, and can't really add much myself, but shouldn't Yen Sid have a section on here? He plays an important role (right?) in the games, yet there's little to no mention of him on here; his name is mentioned only 7 times, and he doesn't even have a description. Shouldn't something be done? I don't know if I have a right to say anything, since I can't add much, but I thought I could at least bring it to attention.--184.100.202.20 (talk) 19:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I think who Yen Sid is missing here. :-( --ToonsFan (talk) 13:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrong association

This article is associated with the french Wikipedia article [[1]], which don't exactly talks about the same subject : this article is about all Kingdom Hearts characters, but the french Wikipedia's one is only about one specific character, Ansem. Shouldn't the link to the french article be deleted ? Thomaskpi (talk) 17:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved; consensus is against moving. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 04:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

---

Characters of Kingdom Hearts → Characters in Kingdom Hearts – Characters of Kingdom Hearts by itself is a sentence fragment and nonsensical title, in-line with Character profiles/lists for other games, TV series etc. —James ^{(Talk • Contribs)} • 3:03pm • 05:03, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

• Comment How is "Characters in Kingdom Hearts" any less of a sentence fragment? How is "Characters of Kingdom Hearts" nonsensical? What other character lists are you referring to? Just a side note as well, this is an article, not a list. I've seen a lot of "List of characters in X" lists but most character articles are "Characters of X". Axem Titanium (talk) 17:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
  • If you're not going to respond, then I'm obviously not convinced. Oppose. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
• How many article titles are full sentences? —Tamfang (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
• Looking at the category, it seems the formats used are "Characters of X" and "List of X characters". Personally I would say either "Characters in X" or "X characters" ("of" sounds wrong here, though I'm no games expert), and would therefore support the proposal, though I'd also be happy with Kingdom Hearts characters, and would do the same with the other similar articles currently named "Characters of X" (unless it turns out that this really is how the gamers phrase it).--Kotniski (talk) 09:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, the standard is "of"; you want it changed, then bring it up at WT:VG and we'll move them all at the same time. --PresN 16:05, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose, the titles aren't meant to be full sentences. "Characters of X" is a simple way of saying the articles is about characters of kingdomm hearts. Regardless, The most of i've seen is "List of X Characters" and "List of XX in X series" when its much more specific type of characters. But Characters in X seems like a in-between form of the two and should be avoided.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:25, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Riku and Kairi

Okay, I'll note that I brought up this question a year ago, but I'll ask it again. I've noticed Riku and Kairi do not have their own articles. Granted last time I was told they were not very notable to gain their own articles. However, secondary characters like Terra, Aqua, Ven, Roxas and Xion all have their own articles, although this is likely because they are also playable characters. Thinking over, while Kairi will probably lack the guidelines to have a separate article, I believe Riku does. He is technically the second main character if Donald and Goofy are moved aside, and has been playable in most of the games (e.g. Chain of Memories, Kingdom Hearts II, 358/2 Days, the new 3D game, etc.) Just a thought, and I'll go on with the decision. Evilgidgit (talk) 19:21, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

When saying notable we don't mean about their roles in the series, but if they are able to pass WP:Notability guidelines as they possess third-party sources that talk about how the public received. From Riku and Kairi, I could only find a tidbit from the former, which is not enough to pass notability. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:53, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's a good enough reason for me. Cheers. Evilgidgit (talk) 16:21, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Villains' Council

The same should be done a section of the Maleficent's "Villains' Council". Who (excluding Maleficent and Pete) consists with: Hades, Jafar, Ursula, Oogie Boogie, and Captain Hook, and the members found by Pete: Captain Barbossa and Scar.--ToonsFan (talk) 15:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Figures do more

sould it say that the Figures can be used as chess pices — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkened wiki (talk • contribs) 19:33, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Seems kinda trival, but I don't think anyone would object if you had a source for it. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:15, 23 January 2012 (UTC))

Article format?

I noticed that the "Other characters" subsection of this article lists all of the Disney characters featured in this article in bullet points. I believe this is proving detrimental to the article's size, particularly if these lists become too detailed. I request a rewrite of this section in prose, each subsection within this subsection summarizing the basic roles of the characters in the games they appear in while removing details that prove to be a source of clutter, including voice actors. If people are compelled to mention every voice actor in the series, I believe we could make a new article listing them, though I also believe there is a reason that such an article hasn't currently been made to my knowledge. User:Immblueversion (talk) 16:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

The "Main Protagonists" section kind of bugs me (besides its capital letters and redundancy). How are Lea, Jimmy and Eraqus main characters if they only appear for few cutscenes?Tintor2 (talk) 16:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm currently rearranging some sections, but I'm not very familiar with some of the movies so it could take a some time. Were you working on it in a sandbox?Tintor2 (talk) 00:23, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

There is an anon reverting the edits stating that information is necessary. However, all Square Enix and Disney characters already have their respective lists and articles where the voice actors are mentioned, so it's pointless repeating them here when there is only one sentence of significant information for most of them.Tintor2 (talk) 14:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

"Riku" character deserving of an article?

He has now been the main hero in two of the games in the series. I think this merits an article more than the others who have them. --174.44.93.242 (talk) 02:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

See #Riku and Kairi for the same discussion.Tintor2 (talk) 02:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

That was over a year ago. This particular character is the main protagonist in the most recent release in the series. I tried to make that clear. --174.44.93.242 (talk) 03:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Again, role in the story is not the problem. It's the lack of third party sources to establish the characters' notablity as the old discussion already mentioned that.Tintor2 (talk) 03:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I know. The character's name is now seen in many recent reviews of the latest game, with many commenting on it being the protagonist.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.44.93.242 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 6 August 2012‎ (UTC)

But no sources or reception sections (which have to be about commentary regarding Riku) were presented. Saying they just exist does not make the character pass notability.Tintor2 (talk) 12:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I think what Tintor is trying to say is that you should try to beef up Riku's section on this page first until it gets to the point where a split might be justified. It's not about "deserving" vs. "not deserving" an article, rather it's "necessary" vs. "unnecessary" to split. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:55, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Split article?

Seeing how this article has grown to be pretty lengthy, I think it's time we split the article as per article size guidelines. Any suggestions? User:Immblueversion (talk) 05:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I haven't been checking this article lately but it looks like users or anons started adding infoboxes to every single section. I would only suggest a split after removing unnecessary weight.Tintor2 (talk) 13:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Tintor. The article appears long but only due to fat accumulation. I'm planning to do a major trim once I'm finally caught up with playing all the games (still haven't beaten KH3D yet). If you can believe it, this article passed FAC under 100kb and I believe it can get back to that point. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Look, I trimmed 37kb of bullshit because it was straight up copied from the Org XIII page. Axem Titanium (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, is it necessary to call the group of Disney villains in the original game the "Villains' Council" when I'm fairly certain it was never called that in any of the games? Unless we're talking about Ultimania stuff here. But in that case, what are Barbossa and Scar doing on that list? Just because Pete interacts with them, that doesn't make them part of any "council". I think it's just better to leave these kinds of characters in the "Other characters" section, considering there are plenty of Disney villains there who aren't part of this council. Just mention the names of the villains Maleficent works with in her section, and leave their individual descriptions in their respective Disney film sections. I'm working to rewrite the "Other characters" section, since I'm familiar with pretty much all of these movies on some level; if their appearances are similar to the films' plots in any way, we'll just say they are, point out any plot-relevant differences, and leave it at that. User:Immblueversion (talk) 15:09, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, it's a made up title. Go ahead and change away! Axem Titanium (talk) 18:04, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm still working on that revamp, but there's another thing I must know: is it necessary to give Ansem's apprentices their own subsections when they can just be mentioned in the Organization XIII article like before? User:Immblueversion (talk) 06:49, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I believe that's fine. They could be redirected to their Nobodies.Tintor2 (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

UPDATE: The page keeps being expanded to add pointless weight such as writing five sections for Xehanort. I reverted it for now.Tintor2 (talk) 01:50, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Changing dub to version.

I just changed reverted someone that changed the English version into dub in a few instances. But while I was reading through the article. The word dub is used almost all the time. I am wondering why? I mean I understand its dubbing over the lines of the japanese actors. But the English version is not just a cartoon that was unaltered. Not to mention that in most cases the words japanese version is mentioned first as well. So I suggest changing all the dub to version or english version instead, where appropriate. NathanWubs (talk) 07:08, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Ideas for page reorganization

I've been thinking of ways to improve the article for a while now, and I think I've come up with a method.

• Get rid of the "Voice cast" list. It's just a string of actors that are listed below anyway.
• Reorganize sections by character origin (Original/Disney/Square) rather than role; alternatively, rearrange "Main characters" to "Playable characters" like other Final Fantasy character articles (barring Organization XIII, much like Sephiroth in the FFVII article).
• Rewrite character summaries to be more concise.
• Combine Ansem and Xemnas with Xehanort and summarize accordingly.
• Add pronunciations for more complex names like "Xehanort" (/ˈzeɪənɔːrt/ ZAY-ə-nort) and "Eraqus" (/ˈɛrəkəs/ ERR-ə-kəs).
• Jettison "Characters in other locations". It takes up practically half the page with far too many subsections and summary-only descriptions. The "Villain's Council" is also completely conjectural. Keeping party members and summons may be considered, though.

Also, with the exception of Roxas (who, as stated above, is considered too valuable to the article's comprehension to remove), I've been thinking that for the time being, Xion and the human versions of the Organization (Lea, Isa, and Ansem's apprentices) should be kept to the Organization article. For the former, Xion has no significant mention outside her section; and for the latter, not only are they all essentially the same characters with different names, but the standout antagonists Braig and Isa are still a part of the Organization anyway. On top of that, the descriptions for the apprentices are scarce as it is.

Discussions are welcome, of course. User:Immblueversion (talk) 06:29, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

While I'm at it, I'm going to add a notice for intricate detail, mainly regarding the aforementioned "Characters in other locations" section. User:Immblueversion (talk) 21:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I think I agree with almost you say. In order to be more objective I wonder if the page could use "Playable characters" instead of main characters.Tintor2 (talk) 22:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't think we should remove the "Characters in other Locations" from the article since regardless if they don't play an impact to the Kingdom Hearts story, it would be out of place with of no mentioning of these characters.

Also while I agree since this is clearly a video game and not an anime series, I feel i would miss the old look that the page have since the character listing reminds me lot of the other list of characters in Anime featuring the "Main Characters", "Antagonists", "Other", etc..., but I understand why you have to do this--AnimeDisneylover95 (talk) 00:03, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

@AnimeDisneylover95: The section could do with a lot fewer characters than it currently does. And we certainly don't need to keep them just to say "Disney worlds come with many characters from Disney films"; I've just efficiently summarized half of a 20,000+ word article in fewer than 10. Only the most avid of fans and/or readers would be so willing to read through all that, which is not something that's recommended on Wikipedia. Of course, I'm not saying the article wouldn't benefit from a little more detail than a single 10-word sentence. That's why I suggest if we include a section just for world-exclusive party members and summons, we could use them as examples for the types of Disney properties that are included to convey the idea that there are more where they came from. The rest, as you say, don't play an impact on the Kingdom Hearts story, so what purpose would they serve? User:Immblueversion (talk) 00:34, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I found the edit that started this article's long dark descent from FA to C-class. Ta-da! Axem Titanium (talk) 00:42, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

It just so happens that edit was made to the very section I noted was not needed in the first place. User:Immblueversion (talk) 19:05, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

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This article needs to be shorter.

It's been a long time since I touched this article, and it hasn't gotten any better. By far the most problematic section remains that "Characters in other locations" section. To be quite frank, the act of listing every single character from every single world in the series, not to mention every single voice actor, strikes me as way too much detail with way too many subsections. It literally takes up half the article. That should be sign enough that this part of the article needs to be reshapen, if not jettisoned altogether. And I don't plan on doing this by myself this time.

On another note, I still think it's unnecessary to give sections to characters like Lea, Braig and Isa that are no different from their Nobody selves apart from name; it's like giving Anakin Skywalker his very own article separate from Darth Vader. Roxas, Naminé, Xion, and maybe Xemnas (though he can be mentioned in Xehanort's section) are exceptions; everyone else, I believe, should go under "Organization XIII".

Speaking of Xehanort, there's no need to go overkill on the subsections for each of his incarnations. And we don't need all that detail to describe him, or any of the characters, for that matter. With every-handy redirects and the right level of summarization, we can comprehensively describe them all without the need of subsections. Here's an excerpt I wrote a while back:

Xehanort (ゼアノート, Zeanōto, /ˈzeɪənɔːrt/ ZAY-ə-nort) is the main antagonist of Kingdom Hearts. He appears in the original game as Ansem (アンセム, Ansemu), a researcher of the Heartless who is later established in Kingdom Hearts II to have stolen his mentor Ansem the Wise's identity. Nine years before the events of the game, Xehanort discards his body and becomes the Heartless "Ansem" during his pursuit of knowledge in the mysteries of the human heart, believing the power of darkness to be the essence of all life; this act also produces a Nobody, dubbed "Xemnas", who goes on to establish Organization XIII. Retaining his human mind as a Heartless, Ansem uses Maleficent to gather the Princesses of Heart and produce the Keyhole to Kingdom Hearts, which he determines to be the ultimate reservoir of darkness. He later possesses Riku to regain a physical presence while battling Sora at the End of the World. Although his goal of reaching Kingdom Hearts is realized, he is overwhelmed and destroyed by the light contained within.

The prequel Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep depicts Xehanort's original incarnation as an elderly Keyblade Master with an obsessive interest in a historic cataclysm known as the "Keyblade War". Master Xehanort attempts to use his pupil Ventus's heart to forge the χ-blade, the key to unlock Kingdom Hearts, in order to incite another war and remake the world in his own image. He also conditions Terra to embrace his own inner darkness, converting Terra into a vessel to replace his own aging body with. Although Xehanort succeeds in possessing Terra at the Keyblade Graveyard, becoming "Terra-Xehanort", he meets resistance in Terra's disembodied will and Aqua, and ultimately purges his own heart in order to subdue Terra at the cost of his own memories, leaving him to be taken in as Ansem the Wise's apprentice.

Due to the destruction of his Heartless and Nobody, Xehanort is set to make a return to his human form in Kingdom Hearts III. It is additionally revealed in Dream Drop Distance that, through means of his Heartless's incorporeal form, Xehanort has traveled through time to appoint his boyhood self—dubbed "Young Xehanort"—with assembling thirteen incarnations of himself across the series' history (including Ansem, Xemnas, and the elder Xehanort himself) into a substitute Organization. The twelve Xehanorts eventually return to their respective time periods before they can convert Sora into the final required vessel, losing their memories of the future; however, Young Xehanort is motivated by the destined path "etched in [his] heart" to leave his island home and become Master Xehanort.

The character's name is an anagram of "No Heart" and "Another" with the additional letter "X". Master Xehanort was voiced by Leonard Nimoy in the English version of the series, and by Chikao Ōtsuka in Japanese. His English voice actors as Terra-Xehanort and "Ansem" are Billy Zane in Kingdom Hearts and Richard Epcar in every other appearance beginning with Kingdom Hearts II, while Akio Ōtsuka voices him in Japanese. As Xemnas, he is voiced by Paul St. Peter in English and Norio Wakamoto in Japanese. David Gallagher and Mamoru Miyano make uncredited appearances as the youthful version of the character in the English and Japanese versions of Birth by Sleep, respectively; they are replaced by Benjamin Diskin in English and Takanori Okuda in Japanese from Dream Drop Distance onwards.

And finally, the name "Villain's Council" is completely fan-based as far as I'm concerned. Plus the reasoning behind including several of its "members" (so to speak) in Kingdom Hearts II is questionable, as if merely being a Disney villain and interacting with Pete makes them a member. So this section already suffers from fan POV and original research.

This article needs to change. Most of this I can do on my own; rewriting and summarizing is my thing. In fact, I have a good chunk of it rewritten on one of my sandboxes. But above all, and I can't stress this enough, that the "other locations" section cannot stay the way it is anymore. I just need help knowing what to do with it. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 05:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Also, I remember putting a list of issues on this article long ago that was taken down, even though none of the issues listed on it were fixed. I'm putting a little notification on the article's length back up, this time under the part that really, really needs it most. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 05:30, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

IMO why does the page need to be edited. the list of characters remind me of the character listings for the JRPG games (e.g. Final Fantasy series), and the Anime series, so IF YOU have a big issue with this then I don't know what's up with your issues.--AnimeDisneylover95 (talk) 21:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

This isn't just based on my own personal judgment, but the guidelines behind what makes a good article. The best Final Fantasy and anime character lists didn't get where they are by indiscriminately listing and detailing every character that appears, like this article does. Instead of that, let's whittle that section down to a list party members and summons, and make brief mentions to other characters wherever appropriate (e.g., just mention the names and films of the "council" of Disney villains, rather than make a separate section that uses original research to make its section title). That way, readers will get a good handle on what kinds of characters and franchises appear in this series. It's better than having a list that's already well over the recommended article split threshold (approx. 20,000 words by rough estimate). User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 22:36, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

It is done. The article still needs general cleanup before this article can reach standard Wikipedia quality (inconsistent tense, lack of italicized titles, some in-universe descriptions), but I did my best with the changed areas to emulate the layout of articles such as Characters of Final Fantasy VIII, for example. And if people want to include information on voice actors and the like, I'm working on a potential cast page in my sandbox. But that is a discussion for another time. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 19:04, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

To clarify my intentions, having a full list of characters from the game goes against Wikipedia's policy towards too much detail, indiscriminate information, and comprehension by non-fans. The key to this article is to give readers a general idea of the characters, their role in the story, and general development. Hence why I felt it necessary to condense the previous "Characters in other locations" subsection to what we have now: a basic description of characters whose roles deviate more from their source material than others, namely party members, summons, and those listed under "Other Disney characters". Being long and detailed doesn't always make it comprehensive or accessible to anyone but a niche of the most diehard of fans. That's what the Kingdom Hearts Wiki is for; there's two of them, in fact.

Also, for future reference, there is no Template:Very short template. Use Template:Expand section instead. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 01:51, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Agree with you there, but did somebody remove this? It's apparently a free image so it could to reception if we include data about the characters.Tintor2 (talk) 14:24, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Ah, it seems in my haste in compressing half the article, I accidentally removed not just that image, but the "Merchandise" section as well. My mistake. :P User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 14:33, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

No prob.Tintor2 (talk) 14:47, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

List of Kingdom Hearts cast members

Looking through the other articles articles, I believe we have enough verifiable sources to create a full-blown cast list, including casting and reception sections. I've already put together a comprehensive table of every Japanese and English actor I could find (each character has two rows: Japanese actors on top, English on the bottom), which can be found on my sandbox. All we'd need is verification for the voice cast, since Disney voice talent in the English releases is woefully uncredited. Unfortunately, IMDb does not count as a reliable source (e.g., there was a time Billy Zane was credited as the voice of DiZ for Kingdom Hearts II because he was speculated to be the same character as Xehanort's Heartless before Kingdom Hearts II was released); read more on this article for more on that. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 19:32, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

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Finished rewrite

After several years, I have put the rewrite of the article in effect. It now organizes characters in terms of "original" and "Disney/Square", and better distinguishes which of the original characters are the primary playable protagonists of the series. I've also merged info on the characters Lea, Braig, and Isa with the Organization XIII page, providing individual redirects to each one under the all-encompassing "Organization XIII" section, since the way it was written previously made it seem as though readers were expected/required to read both articles. Xion is also listed there, since there's no sense in writing the exact same content about her on two articles, and her development as a fictional character is more ingrained with the Organization than not. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 19:12, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Pronounciation

There appears to be a current disagreement in regards for the new templates in each characters' sections and article related to this franchise. I would suggest discussing this here rather than start an edit war.Tintor2 (talk) 23:55, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't know the criteria that unrelated articles have for adding pronunciations; I admit to adding them on this page in the first place based on personal judgment, such as whether they are mispronounced in media, or if their English pronunciations either differ greatly from the Japanese versions or their usual pronunciations (e.g., the word Latin word "vanitas" is usually pronounced /ˈvænitɑːs/ VAN-i-tahs or the like, but the name in the English dub of the series is /vəˈniːtəs/ və-NEE-təs). I always wonder if it's best to even include them at all. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 02:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

So? What's it gonna be? Are we gonna keep the inconsistently remaining translation keys? Remove them all? Put the old ones back? I messaged the user who took most of them down in the first place to join the discussion, but I haven't heard a peep from them since this started. User:SubZeroSilver (talk) 23:01, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Xion article

User:Haleth, some years ago there was an article for Xion and while it had suitable creation information, there was barely reception. There was an noteworthy award from a Nintendo magazine but the rest wasn't enough to write any article. Do you guys think there is now more material work into it? There was also demand for a Riku article but I couldn't find anything back then since he was barely a protagonist in the first games.Tintor2 (talk) 17:57, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I've never paid attention as to whether certain characters are notable or otherwise, except for the few obvious ones that even people who don't follow the Kingdom Hearts series like me are familiar with. A cursory glance on google returned two articles specifically about Xion, though both of them are from the same source (with amusingly divergent viewpoints from different authors) and there appears to be no consensus by the VG Wikiproject on whether the source itself is reliable. Xehanort appears to have enough coverage specifically about him (though I may be wrong), and I am surprised that there is no discussion or drive to build the article back from a redirect. Haleth (talk) 01:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Yozora?

While the games haven't given Yozora enough attention, third party sources have often focused on him for the mystery behind his origin, the similarities with Noctis and how difficulty is to beat him. Might give it a chance in a sandbox. Tintor2 (talk) 03:06, 28 January 2023 (UTC)