Talk:Cavendish Mall

Store names: To use English or French

There seems to be a debate over whether to use the English or French store names for current and former (defunct) tenants of the Cavendish mall. In all Canadian provinces, and throughout the world, the official naming for stores are the same English word(s) and spelling for universal brand recolonization (e.g. Staples, KFC, On The Run). Even in France, Iran or Japan KFC is named "KFC". The province of Quebec is an oddity in that where possible, and under government and public pressure, many companies have been forced to use French only names solely in that province. For example, Quebec is the only place on the planet where KFC is known as "PFK" (Poulet Frit Kentucky) or Esso's On The Run "Marche Express". Acts of violence have even been threatened on these companies if they refused to use the French naming.

As Wikipedia exists as an international encyclopedia (accessible worldwide, not just the province of Quebec), particularly this English edition, the internationally recognized name and spelling of a company or business needs to be used. The exception, of course, is if a business is unique to Quebec and only has a French name. For example, "Reno Depot", "Provigo", "Lafleur". In those cases these are the official and ONLY name for the business. In some cases there have been extremes, such as keeping the name as-is, but removing the apostrophe in a petty gesture. For example "Eaton" vs "Eaton's", or "Steinberg" vs "Steinberg's". It's been a source of international embarrassment and trying to bring it over to Wikipedia is ridiculous. Once again, Wikipedia exists on the Internet and is an internationally accessed website, not the province of Quebec that lives in a bubble world. Nothing bugs me more to see local politics swimming around here. Nevertheless, rather than get into a tug-o-war with editing, I thought it only fair to open a discussion about it. --Apple2gs (talk) 22:16, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

i dont want to get political, but there are instances where the french name in quebec has become the common name, for example bonimart, the stores were labeled Towers and later Oshawa corp re branded bonimart in quebec, but the name stuck. Same for reno depot, until the rona take-over they had stores in ontario branded Aikenheads and later The Building Box. Bureau en Gros appeared in the quebec market as the quebec division of office depot, staples only took them over later. While i agree on your mentioning of KFC and the like, the name on the side of the building in cote st-luc says "bureau en gros" and in general people do say Bureau en Gros. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soyonsexpositifs (talk • contribs) 23:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of common naming, here is Wikipedia's own guideline rules for use of a common name. In a case such as "Bureau en Gros", the more commonly used and recognized English name "Staples" stands because Wikipedia is international. As an example, many English speaking persons in Quebec use French terms such as "Depanneur" (for convenience store), "Autoroute" (for highway), or "stage" (for internship), so yes, those are the commonly used names in this province. However if I were writing an article for Wikipedia about the Boni-Soir convenience store chain, would I do this?

"Boni-Soir is a dépanneur chain operating in the province of Quebec. The largest operating depanneur in Montreal can be accessed by taking the number 20 Autoroute. Founder and operator Joe Blow, before starting up, went to school taking a business stage to become more familiarized with..."''

For a Quebec-based encyclopedia, those few sentences are understandable and make sense. However, show it to someone living in the United States, Europe, or even most parts of Canada, and they'd be scratching their head thinking what the heck does any of that mean. It's localized dialect. Same applies to French translations of commonly recognized business names. So, as long as Wikipedia is an international English encyclopedia, the more commonly used English names used outside Quebec must be used. It's naive to think just because a particular article talks about a local shopping center, place or thing (i.e. articles on Cavendish Mall, Ben's Deli, Steinberg's, Montreal's subway system) that ONLY local residents are going to read and access the article. If something only has a French name, then that name stands obviously (e.g. if I write an article on La Fleurs fast food chain, I'm certainly NOT going to call it "The Flowers" fast food chain).--Apple2gs (talk) 02:49, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

if we follow that reasoning, then we should refer to the grocery store in cavendish mall as sobeys? As of now sobeys only operates under the IGA name in quebec. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soyonsexpositifs (talk • contribs) 03:17, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

How so? IGA is not a Quebec-only chain. As a matter of fact it operates world-wide, and under the name "IGA" in close to three dozen different countries. See here: http://www.iga.com/international.aspx --Apple2gs (talk) 04:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

IGA in quebec is used under licence by Sobeys after they purchased the remains of oshawa in the late 90s. They rebranded all their quebec locations IGA because the brand was established here, sobeys operates in all other markets under the sobeys name. The quebec locations of IGA are not in any way other than branding affiliated with the global IGA chain. Even its house brands are all Sobeys trademarks. http://www.iga.net/index.php?lang=en if you notice the IGA quebec site is operated by sobeys and many IGA locations in the eastern portion of quebec and montreals south shore are former sobeys locations — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soyonsexpositifs (talk • contribs) 04:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realize that until I visited their website. So essentially all the stores in Quebec are Sobeys operating under the IGA banner (or you could say IGA stores run exclusively by Sobeys). Do they have any connection to IGA at all or is it just the name? I don't quite understand how IGA is any more Quebec-related than Sobeys, unless like you say IGA happens to be recognizable here and Sobeys is foreign (though so was Loblaws maybe a decade or so back, they still introduced them here). Anyhow I'm digressing.

I think you do have a point here. I wouldn't write Cavendish Mall has a Sobeys store, I would keep it "IGA" (it is recognizable internationally, right?). What I would do however, is link it to Sobeys rather than IGA. Mind you, have a look here:IGA_(Quebec), it's already explained under the sub-section for Canada--Apple2gs (talk) 21:55, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Soyonsexpositifs (talk)i was only pointing that out for arguements sake. IGA in quebec hasnt shared the same logo either in years. Outside of quebec IGA still has the red oval around the lettering, but here it uses just the IGA letters. The IGA takeover in 1998 caused for some unique circumstances. But essentially IGA stores in quebec are Sobeys with the IGA name, You have to remember IGA has a long and established history here, back to the days of IGA Boniprix, they had smaller stores (20 000sq ft range). Sobeys only had stores in the quebec city and gaspe areas. 98 was when they pierced the montreal area and it was short lived. Rebranding for the quebec market is nothing new, Labatt Bleue, (the maple leaf on the bottle replaced by a wheat stalk) Laurentide (essentially molson canadian) Dormez Vous (sleep country canada) Bonimart (towers stores) Maxi(provigo operated identical stores in ontario under the loeb name until they had to divest them to metro with the loblaw takeover)actually provigo was big on the differnt brands for the ontario market. even provi soir operated in ontario as wink. anyways, ive gone out on a tangeant. be good! Soyonsexpositifs (talk) 03:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Interesting to see all the rebranding Quebec has done. Marche Express (On The Run) is another example, internationally in countries such Russia, Japan and even France it's known as "On The Run", but Quebec refuses to follow the rest of the world. Provigo and IGA are actually quite similar, they're run by other companies but the Quebec branding has stayed (Provigo doesn't even exist really, it was bought out by Loblaws). Yep, we're off on a tangent. :) Thanks for the interesting info though.--Apple2gs (talk) 20:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, per WP:Commoname Mike Cline (talk) 10:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

---

Cavendish Mall → Quartier_Cavendish – Cavendish Mall renamed to Quartier Cavendish as evidenced by their new website and multiple articles to that effect. Dudie0 (talk) 22:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

• Comment but the common name is "Cavendish Mall", and it is also the name used in English Montreal, hence the English name, whereas "Quartier" is French, so the French name would be Quartier Cavendish. Further, it's in the heart of English Montreal, so the most used form is Cavendish Mall. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 04:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• Strongly oppose -- As per Wikipedia's common name guideline, the article must remain under its original name: "Cavendish Mall". This has been the recognized name of the shopping mall for the past 40 years, and continues to be used by the public and media (this is almost identical to the case of "Steinberg's" versus "Steinberg"). Secondly Wikipedia is an English encyclopedia, Quebec's over zealous and xenophobic move to eliminate all traces of the English language from the province do not apply here. If the city of Montreal were to suddenly rename itself "Xibtyropimox", we would put a mention of this in the main article about Montreal, however we would not move or rename the article, as "Montreal" is the common name. Same applies here. -- Apple2gs (talk) 18:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

• Strongly in favour -- While the recognized name has been "Cavendish Mall", it has now been changed by the owners to reflect the new residential area. The owners and management of the shopping centre are all anglophone and as per Webster's dictionary, the word quartier is also an English word. If the objection is to "Quebec's over zealous and xenophobic move to eliminate all traces of the English language" then that is something which should be addressed elsewhere. Here, the page exists as information about the existing shopping centre. Likewise, the page for the supermarket Steinberg refers to the defunct company and isn't the active page for IGA. As such, here too the page should refer to the active commercial and legal name of the centre and not one editor's preference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.37.0.246 (talk) 17:11, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Quebec's language politics aren't the issue, in fact they're completely irrelevant here on Wikipedia. I'm just bitching about them because it bothers me to see those politics occasionally making their way onto the Internet (they're already an international embarrassment in the real offline world).

What's also irrelevant is why the name was changed, whether "quartier" is a French or English word, or if it's even official or not. The bottomline is 99.9% of people refer to and recognize the shopping as "The Cavendish Mall". To the point even newspaper, magazine and TV news reports are still referring to it by Cavendish Mall. Go out and ask where Quartier Cavendish is, and you'll just get blank stares. Please read Wikipedia's guideline on common names

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language

--Apple2gs (talk) 03:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Anchor tenants

There's been some back and forth on this, thought it's worthwhile discussing. Currently the article lists 4 anchor tenants at Cavendish Mall: IGA, Staples, Cineplex Odeon Cinemas and Dollarama. I'm of the opinion that Dollarama should be excluded from that list. Even Shopper's Drugmart (aka Pharmaprix) isn't on the list of anchors.

An anchor is a store that people specifically make a trip to the mall for (and regularly), it's a main draw. The other stores are generally just visited because they happened be there, so why not drop in. I just don't see a pharmacy and dollar store as anchors (even at best, if they are, certainly not major anchors). What do others think? ----Apple2gs (talk) 23:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

On the note of anchor tenants, it has been officially announced Staples will be closing its Cavendish Mall store early next year (estimate from head office is March 2015). As it was built specifically for Staples and detached from the mall, it remains to be seen what will replace it. Likely the building will sit vacant or be demolished. We can remove it from the list of anchors in the next few months. Also considering removing Cineplex Odeon as an anchor. The theater remains closed all day, only opening in the evening (~7:00 PM), plus it doesn't draw as much movie goers as it in the past. At the very least, at this point, I'd downgrade it from a major anchor to a minor one, along side the dollar store and pharmacy.--Apple2gs (talk) 19:19, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

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