Apple2gs

Image:Apple IIe Platinum.jpg

Hi, thanks for uploading Image:Apple IIe Platinum.jpg. You specify in the image description that the image came from Apple2clones.org, but that site doesn't seem to exist. Please could you check the URL and update the image description - this will allow someone to help you determine the copyright status of the image. Thanks. David Johnson [T|C] 01:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I'm replying in the area, still somewhat new to Wikipedia, but the image came from the site www.apple2clones.com (specifically: http://www.apple2clones.com/?q=image/tid/16). Sorry about the typo.

Is there a recommend link for the proceedure on uploading images that may or may not be copyrighted, or creating new articles from the ground up? (just having added one on the "Apple IIe" this afternoon, without reading any guidelines).

• Hi. Thanks for providing the correct link - I've noted it on the image page and added the correct copyright tag. New users normally get a welcome message from the welcoming committee soon after they start contributing, but it seems you got bothered by me before they got around to it :-) I'll post you the welcome message below, which will give you good starting points on creating articles and everything else you need to know. Thanks for contributing! David Johnson [T|C] 02:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello Apple2gs, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  --David Johnson [T|C] 02:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Deleted images

Hi Apple2gs. All the deleted images were tagged: "The editor who uploaded this work is unsure of its copyright status. An experienced editor should help the uploader determine the status of this work, and help the uploader understand the process for picking the correct license in the future. Works without confirmed copyright status will be deleted within a week." Other images you have uploaded may also be tagged with this message - I have been working through the backlog of images in the Category:Uploader unsure of copyright status category. Regards, CLW 12:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

• Ah, I see. Unfortunately this is most likely going to be the fate of so many other public domain images I uploaded and intergrated into articles. What would you suggest for preventing this from reoccuring? I'm unclear on what status to label a public domain or copyrighted image (that's free to distribute). Is there a way to change the status of an image I've already uploaded?

It's only by chance that I saw your response above as it was posted here and not on my talk page...

To prevent images from being deleted again, be sure to select an appropriate public domain tag from the drop-down menu when uploading images (but only if the images actually are public domain). You can amend the status of an existing image by going to the page for that image and editing the licencing section. Regards, CLW 23:02, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Apple articles

Hi, Apple2gs — looks like you've made a bunch of great contributions already to the Apple II series of articles. Just wanted to let you know that someone noticed, and keep up the good work! —Cleared as filed. 17:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the encouragement! And it is good to know it goes noticed, Wikipedia is pretty anonymous by nature (even if you have a registered user account) so I sometimes do wonder. Not sure if you can track my edits (probably an option right in front of my nose heh) but I guess you saw I added section for another model of the Apple II (the IIc) and still planning to add a few more. Also wrote a new introduction for the main Apple II Family page. Have to say it's addictive. Not just computer articles, but any other topics of interest and adding bits and pieces to them. :)

Image copyright problem with Image:IIe_keys_original.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:IIe_keys_original.gif. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images on Wikipedia is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. -- Carnildo 19:57, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much for notifying me, I didn't even realize I missed it. The image, like the one above it, came from the Apple II History site (www.apple2history.org). I've now labeled it as such. --Apple2gs 21:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

List of emulators

Please do not add commercial links — or links to your own private websites — to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. Note that Wikipedia may see print or DVD publication, so we want more content, not more web links. See the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. Perfecto 03:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. Mind you, you mention commerical links, those links I added were just to the originating site of those freeware emulators (where the emulator itself and information pertaining to it can be found). I noticed the other emulators already listed had site linked to them so I used that as a model. In any case, I'm not disputing it, just a little unsure. Still learning about Wikipedia as you can see. :) --Apple2gs 06:03, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Apple II pictures

Hi Apple2gs,

I had a look at the numerous Apple II images you uploaded with a {{CopyrightedFreeUse}} or other free use tag. Do you have any means to back up that claim, i.e. (written) permission from the owners of the sites you took them from? I checked out some of the sites you gave as sources, and I only saw either:

• no copyright statement at all, which means that we have to assume restricted use (like this one)
• a generic copyright statement, i.e. "all content (c) <site>", which means that we have to assume restricted use (like this one)
• actual heavy restrictions on use (like this one and this one)

I guess you either have explicit permission for using these images, in which case you will have to produce it, or are not aware that "free to use for any purpose" is not the same as "posted on a website somewhere", in which case these images will have to be removed from Wikipedia as fast as possible. In any case, I hope to hear from you soon. -- grm_wnr Esc 01:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for contacting me with regards to the verification of the copyrights of the photos mentioned above.

I'm not entirely sure I've used the correct tags as far as labeling them; to be honest, I find the system Wikipedia uses a bit confusing. I do agree it's an important matter to get resolved and hope you (or another) can work with me to get it corrected rather than immediately and indiscriminately deleting all the images from countless articles. I've put a lot of time and effort in writing several of these Apple II articles from the ground up, so it would be very discouraging, to say the least, to see most of them cut apart.

The online Apple II community is rather close knit bunch, so many of the sites these articles have been taken from have been brought to the attention of their owners (we've discussed it on Usenet's comp.sys.apple2 group, or in some cases private e-mails) and there's been no objection to the use of these photographs. If need be, I can get written permission from the maintainers of each site, assuming an e-mail will suffice (that is very time consuming and tedious, but I'd at least do it for the set of Apple II articles I've written which have so far been entirely my work--the "Apple IIe", "Apple IIc" and "Apple IIc Plus"). Who do I submit the written permission to if this step is necessary?

I would hope just changing/editing the copyright status for several of the pictures I've used so they better reflect the current copyright is all that's required (again, once I better understand what labeling to use) but again, if need be, I can get written permission. Please do work with me on it before having all the photographs immediately removed (of course if any one person insists an image of theirs be removed that will need to be respected but I doubt we're going to run into this issue). Hope to hear back from you, thanks! --Apple2gs 02:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem. If you get an email stating permission, forward it to permissions@wikimedia.org and note it on the image description page (see Wikipedia:Confirmation_of_permission#When_permission_is_confirmed for how to do it exactly). In the meantime, you should add "informal permission for these images has been given, and formal one become available shortly" to the description pages - of course, obviously you will have to follow that up with the formal permission in the near future. However, I have to note that there's often a problem with permissions: They tend to basically say "Sure, Wikipedia can use my images", but that's not enough - they really need to allow use of the image for any purpose (though requiring attribution is always okay, Wikipedia-only or non-commercial-only isn't). My suggestion would be to get the copyright owners to license the images as the standardized Creative Commons Attribution & Share-Alike or Creative Commons Attribution, since our standard GFDL really sucks for images. Even if that fails, a few of the images might be usable as fair use (but in that case, it's always better to use Apple's professional promotional pics until really free ones become available).

Oh, and one more thing ;) - It's nice to see that you have already put some thoughts into this, I have really seen people use the reasoning "posted on website" => "free to use for any purpose". I think we might be able to save most of the images (though i'm doubtful as to whether we can save all of them as I've said above - but if we can, it'd be great of course). Can you keep me informed of what happens with the permissions? If you have any more questions, I would of course be glad to answer them. -- grm_wnr Esc 09:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding sooner (had a week of crisises, unfortunately). I did manage to get some letters written and sent out on Friday, so I'm back on top of it, it's just a matter of waiting to get replies back. The good news is one has already come back today, from Bryan Villados from the Macgeek.org site--he wrote me back saying he is perfectly fine with the use of his images (within the Apple IIe article) on Wikipedia. I'll follow your instructions with regards to forwarding copies of emails with permission as they come in (and yes, your example is more or less what was written back--I'm sure that should suffice for the use in my article at least).

Some of the images actually have come from Apple's professional promotional photos (e.g. many of the Apple IIc images were taken from the old owner's guide or ads) which I either scanned myself or took from the Apple II History Site (who had them scanned several years back). Do I need to get permission for those? I know Apple actually allowed the use of those manuals to be put in the public domain complete with photos (with probably restrictions about modification) and allowed them to be turned into PDF or made web accessible. Do screen-shots/captures of software need permission to be used as well?

Hm, let's see what the permissions department makes of the eMails - note that the tag for Wikipedia-only permission ({{permission}}) is a speedy deletion tag. So, it really depends on what those mails say, which I won't speculate on. I'm really surprised at Apple releasing their promotional images into the public domain - if that is the case, it's a big win for us, but we need some proof somewhere. This has to be documented officialy, and that documetation needs to be linked from the image description pages. On the other hand, Apple promos are, as I said, probably usable as fair use uinder most circumstances for the time being. See User:grm_wnr/Apple2gs for a breakdown of all your Mac images, including what needs to be done and what the face-value status at the moment (without any permissions) is.

Also, there's still the really free collection on Commons, see commons:Apple computers. Anything in there is completely unproblematic for us, and use of it is preferred to pretty much anything else. it.wikipedia managed to get blanket permission for images from allaboutapple.com (a lot of their images are on Commons already, but there are more). Look around there, and see if you can use some of those images. -- grm_wnr Esc 03:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Image:Apple IIc Plus motherboard.jpg

An image that you uploaded, Image:Apple IIc Plus motherboard.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. Please look there if you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), and then provide the necessary information there and on its page, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

& also Image:Apple IIc Plus rear.jpg & Image:Apple IIc Plus sideview.jpg & Image:Apple IIc Plus System.jpg Tagishsimon (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

These images are indeed copyrighted and should be removed (I'm uncertain how to go about doing it; if there is a way I would like to know for any future issues). I originally thought these images were fair-use, however that turned out not to be the case after contacting the copyright holder. They were removed from the article however the actual images, it appears, are still stored on Wikipedia.

I've since replaced them with my own images (I personally photographed my own Apple IIc Plus, including cleanup edits) so it will not affect the current "Apple IIc Plus" article. Please delete the above copyrighted images or let me know how to go about it to get this settled. Thanks. --Apple2gs 00:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Image:Apple IIGS.jpg

Hi Apple2gs! The image mentioned above has just been copied to commons. I doubt that apple computer really has released all right on the picture (this includes modification, commercial use and use without montioning source or author). If they have, please copy the permit you have received on the image talk page and forward it to wikimedia. As I learnt form the discussion you have had earlier on your talk page, you received permits for some of the picture. If you have not received a positve answer for any pictures you uploaded, the images have to be deleted (or if possible tagged as fair use). --Matt314 16:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:290px-Apple IIe middle age.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:290px-Apple IIe middle age.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page to provide the necessary information on the source or licensing of this image (if you have any), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

Image tagging for Image:AppleIIc2.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Apple_II_Plus.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Apple_IIc.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Apple_IIc.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 06:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Apple_IIc_Plus.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 06:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Apple IIc ROM 3.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:Apple IIc ROM 3.JPG. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. --StuartBrady (Talk) 13:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Apple II Plus.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Apple II Plus.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{Non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

Possibly unfree images

Several file that you uploaded are listed on Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images (for instance Image:Apple IIGS.jpg), because they are missing information on in what way the owner of the copyright have released the rights of the image. Please go to Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images and discuss there. Thanks! // Liftarn

The example image you gave, "Apple IIGS.jpg" I clearly stated came from the cover of the Apple IIGS owner's manual printed in 1986. I also mentioned Apple gave permission for the entire manual, cover included, to be reproduced and distributed freely. That picture is a scan of the manual's cover. What more do I have to indicate of the source?

Quite frankly, although I respect and believe in Wikipedia's ideals about copyrights on images used, I'm finding myself very frustrated about it lately. Images that are fair use or cleared as OK from their original source (permission from a photographer or website owner) are being removed left and right. I'm particularly turned off by this "OrphanBot" that is arbitarily removing images from articles. In some cases where an image had been copyrighted and needed to be removed, I went to the trouble of personally photographing and editing my very own (i.e. the Apple IIc Plus) and yet even THAT is getting somehow scrutinized. I think the problem is the VERY unclear way of choosing the legal status of the image in question. I'm confused by it, and obviously picking the wrong labels (in some of my earlier uploads I didn't cite the source, granted, but going back and adding that doesn't seem to help).-Apple2gs 22:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I can understand the frustration... but the problem is merely a matter of documentation. Did Apple also grant permission to modify the manual? If not, it's not free. The 'Public domain' and 'Free licenses' sections at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags should give you a good idea of what is considered free. I assume you're referring to Image:Apple IIc Plus (front).jpg... From the image use policy: "Also, user-created images may not be watermarked, distorted, have any credits in the image itself or anything else that would hamper their free use". I didn't know that until just now, but that's the policy. As for the oldcomputers.net images—how do we know that they're free? I can't see anything on the site saying that they are—so did you contact them yourself? If you did, then it's useful to have that noted in the summary. Anyway, don't worry—if the images are clearly free or fair use, there shouldn't be a problem once the source and copyright status is properly documented. --StuartBrady (Talk) 00:33, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Apple_IIc_motherboard.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Apple_IIe_middle_age.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 06:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:The Apple II.jpg)

This file may be deleted.

Thanks for uploading Image:The Apple II.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Liftarn 09:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Mousetext.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Mousetext.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 23:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Apple II survey

I'm conducting a survey about the Apple II -- any former users are invited to participate. I found you were active on Apple II related articles.

Come to User:Applephreak/survey

Applephreak 18:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Please do not upload images in the GIF format

Hello and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that you've uploaded a number of images in the GIF format. In the future, please save GIF images in the PNG format before uploading (see Wikipedia:Preparing images for upload). PNG images almost always have a smaller file size, which decreases the amount of time they take to load. There are a bunch of other advantages to the PNG format such as lossless compression that you can read about on its Wikipedia article. —Remember the dot (t) 04:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Binary prefixes

I noticed your recent comment regarding binary prefixes in some of the Apple articles, so I went ahead and changed the articles back again for you. Have a nice day! :) Fnagaton 23:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment, I agree with you and would have reverted the articles you mentioned, but 1/ Fnagaton beat me to it, and 2/ there are currently a good deal of discussion and possibly a mediation process on the subject, and I have been ask by one party to refrain to edit on that particular subjet in the mean time. As an editor of computer related article, your opinion matter and I encourage you to participate at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers).

I have made a proposal on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Template with CSS proposition, that may concern your work, please take a look. - Shmget 20:32, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Binary prefix and javascript

FYI, take a look at Template:KiB. this may be a solution to these edit war on binary prefix (especially by allowing each camps to have it it's way while not forcing it on the others) Shmget 07:11, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Marble Madness IIe.jpg)

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:BeagleBros logo.jpg}

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• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's escription page for each article the image is used in.
• That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Apple IIc Memory Expansion

I certainly do not know as much about the Apple family as the Mac side, but I am a little confused by your comments.

Apple2History.org says the ROM changed a number of things about how the IIc worked. In addition they indicate a new motherboard was released with a memory slot as further delineated by Apple.

Given, 1) that it had a new ROM that added abilities to the IIc and not just bug fixes, 2) that it came with a brand new motherboard with an new RAM slot, and 3) further changed the case color, it seems to me that this was a brand new machine. Perhaps not an entirely differnt machine, but then the Macintosh 128K & 512K are two different machines, yet the only difference is one has extra RAM (coincidentally the main difference in the IIc mem. exp. as well).

I think the only issue is criteria as to what constitutes a new model. If Apple marketed the Platinum IIc Memory expansion as a unique model that would close the deal – and it's hard for me to believe that Apple didn't do that in both packaging and marketing. Surely they didn't make all those improvements under the table – in context of the era, that's enough to get existing IIc owners to buy the upgrade. It certainly was enough to get people to buy a new Mac (or a motherboard upgrade).

But like I said, I'm not that knowledgeable about the the Apple II, so I defer to the others, but had to offer my 2 cents.--Mac128 (talk) 04:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

In regards to the memory expandable IIc...the ROM changes were relatively minor, if not completely insignificant. The main difference was it added firmware support for the optional 1MB RAM card (which functionally was the equivalent of the Apple II Memory Expansion Card aka "Slinky card" for the II, II+, IIe; that particular card has the firmware ON the card itself). To be honest, the "ROM 0" was the largest change to the IIc in terms of features and functionality, but that too is not a new model. As for the motherboard, it's like the difference between say the original Mac 128 board and the revised Mac 128 board--same amount of RAM built-in, but made up of less chips (64Kx1 vs 64Kx4 DRAMs). Yes, the slot was there, but unless you bought the card (just as if you bought a memory card for the original IIc) it didn't enhance the machine in any way.

The IIc case was NOT recolored platinum (it stayed snow white), they just changed the color of the key caps from beige to grey. They also didn't change the name of the machine, it was still called "The Apple //c" on the product label on the bottom, and on the box and even in the user's guide. It just had an easier method of plugging in extra memory. Apple didn't do much marketing about this, it was just the same old IIc. I never saw it as a new model of the Apple IIc, it was just a minor revision (like, say, the beige Mac Plus to the Platinum Mac Plus). The Apple IIc Plus was a different story though.

Most user at the time really had no idea the IIc had changed. They looked and functioned the same....to be honest, I didn't even realize I had picked up a memory expandable IIc at a thrift shop a decade ago until I pop it open to look inside (or did the firmware check by typing PRINT PEEK (64447) and saw "3" come up). The keyboard change was pretty subtle too.

Incidentally, thanks for discussing it. I appreciate hearing others comments and view on these things. You are right about it in some sense, but ultimately, looking back at it through the perspective as an Apple II user myself, I don't quite think the ROM 3 IIc, Platinum IIe or even Apple IIGS with 1 Megabyte of RAM (aka "ROM 3" IIgs) qualify as stand alone new models rather than existing revisions. Well...maybe not so for that latter IIGS revision, it had significant functional differences. Hmm. Apple2gs (talk) 01:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:IIe card panel.jpg)

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August 2008

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Eaton's and the apostrophe

Yes, I think that's better. BTW I don't know if your interests include foods but I see that Montreal-style smoked meat has been created, and could use some beefing up historically, imo, if you're interested. best, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 13:18, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Yep, I agree, reads better that way. I actually rewrote that entire section because it was so POV, biased and even nationalistic, reading like propaganda from the separatist movement (I was tempted to just remove it entirely but some of that history is interesting and relevant to the store chain).

Not so much into editing articles on food (Ben's Deli excluded), only articles pertaining to Montreal's history or current institutes, and vintage computing and electronics. Apple2gs (talk) 02:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of history, I've been thinking about creating an article on Montreal's 1847 typhus outbreak, the one with the thousands of Irish victims commemorated with the Black Rock down by the bridge; maybe one day I'll get to it. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to get your take on this Wikipedia_talk:Canadian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Complexe_Desjardins, if you're interested. I don't see the practical value in what the article creator (for the three towers) has done. Am I missing something? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Had a quick look, that's rather bizarre splitting each tower into its own article (don't even think the WTC had it's north and south towers in separate articles if that says anything). Definitely should be merged, no doubt about it. Let me know if you need help there.

Incidentally, speaking of local articles I've been having technical difficulties moving the Montreal Eaton Centre article back to its original title (Centre Eaton -> Montreal Eaton Centre). Under the common naming guideline that's where it should be. Seems an Wikipedia admin needs to get involved but not sure I followed the process correctly since it's still hasn't moved. Apple2gs (talk) 11:05, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Montreal Eaton Centre

Someone finally closed the discussion for you! I thought of you when I saw that. Cheers. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks good, thanks for letting me know! And thanks for all your advice (and patience!) in the whole discussion debate, I actually learned a few things about Wikipedia processes from all that.--Apple2gs (talk) 22:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

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I believe that image was pulled from a very early incarnation of the dollarcinema.ca website, roughly 7 years ago. It's now an orphaned image file with the Dollar Cinema (Montreal, Quebec) article removed. I see no need in preserving it, probably easier to just simply remove it rather than going through the trouble of verifying copyright status or seeking permission.--Apple2gs (talk) 21:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

G.I. Joe: The Movie

Please stop inserting information about the soundtrack without providing a reliable source. Claiming that it's "instantly recognizable" is a clear case of original research, as it will not be instantly recognizable to every reader of the article. If you disagree, you are welcome to discuss this further at the article's Talk page. Thank you. Doniago (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Huh? After you removed my edit, I reverted the paragraph back to what it was BEFORE I ever edited or touched it (prior to that, yes, I had added the mention of soundtracks present from two lesser known Sunbow cartoons, and because they are lesser known, there I might agree a reference is worthwhile). Though now you're criticizing me for putting things back the way they were. I feel that was an important bit of trivia you removed that I had nothing to even do with. Regardless, that was two edits I made. You act as though there were an edit war going on.

Furthermore, do we really need a reference backing up the fact the GI-Joe and Transformers TV soundtracks were recycled from the cartoon series? No one is taking an educated guess here, it is simply stating the obvious. Those themes were used so frequently in the television series, most fans have them memorized. It would be like demanding a reference is required to prove that there are indeed fifty states established in the United States of America, and in failing to do so, remove that fact from the article. It is important to reference questionable facts in an article, but not something that is well established or known.--Apple2gs (talk) 18:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I apologize if I misconstrued the flow of the edits. My bad.

It's not really "stating the obvious", because it won't be obvious to anyone who hasn't seen the cartoons in question...which is why it's OR. I think there may also be some question as to whether it's trivia that doesn't really merit a note, or whether third-parties did make note of the recycled soundtrack. Having a third-party reference would both address the concern that we might be making this claim up, and any concern that the reuse of music is trivial. WP articles aren't written for fans necessarily, and we can't assume that any reader of the article will already be a fan of the material. I don't believe the information you feel shold be included is well-established or known, certainly not at this point in time. And given that the article has been tagged for needing sourcing for over two years...it's time to source it or lose it. But again, if you disagree, please feel free to raise the issue at the article's Talk page, where other editors will be able to offer their opinions as well. Doniago (talk) 19:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Bens De Luxe Delicatessen & Restaurant

With regards to the edit war (re: De Maisonneuve Blvd) in this article, I gave the IP user a warning and posted a discussion on the article's talk page. If he continues, then he should be reported to the administrators.--MTLskyline (talk) 04:41, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Please do report him/her to the administrators immediately. Believe it or not, this anonymous user has actually been harassing me for over 4 years now. It started with a name change I corrected for the Olympic Stadium (Montreal) article, there was an edit war and debate over whether to use the English or French spelling. In was determined the English name was the correct one. Well, turned out this user is a Quebec language zealot/extremist and then began a form of revenge by following all my edits on other articles, with continued harassing, name calling, insults and vitriol criticisms over my edit styling. Plus the usual vandalism, constantly erasing my edits in hopes to wear me down and force me to leave Wikipedia. His original was IP was 174.88.88.xx and now moved to 70.26.45.111.

I generally just ignored this person, but after this many years with no end in sight, action needs to be taken (you can see this user's venomous comments in Talk areas of the Olympic Stadium and Ben's Deli articles--Apple2gs (talk) 19:02, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I filed a report here. Feel free to put your two cents in there. Cheers. --MTLskyline (talk) 02:23, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

We can block an IP address, but we can't ban an anonymous user.

BTW, this is not vandalism, not unless you can show that the IP is purposefully harming the article rather than simply disagreeing with you. Calling things vandalism when they are not will cost you the sympathy of people who might otherwise help you. — kwami (talk) 08:42, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Also, when I went to warn the IP about civility, it turned out that you had been far more uncivil in response. I understand that you're frustrated, but that makes it difficult to take action against only one party. — kwami (talk) 08:51, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

When you've got an ongoing difference in opinion between two editors, such as whether the deli address should be in English or in French, you might want to ask for a WP:3rd opinion. The person who responds should know the relevant policies (such as using English on WP-en). An outside opinion will also make the relative validity of your two POV's more evident to an admin if the dispute gets out of hand. — kwami (talk) 09:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Articles that fall under WikiProject Canada use the Canadian Manual of Style, and are written in Canadian English. The policy on French names states that actual English usage be reflected in the article rather than the official French name. In this case, actual English usage is De Maisonneuve Boulevard West rather than Boulevard De Maisonneuve Ouest.--MTLskyline (talk) 00:35, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Kwamikagami, thanks for taking the time to review this on going dispute, but unfortunately you're seeing some of this out of context. In particular, what I referred to as vandalism in the above mentioned article may not appear so to a casual observer; not unless you know the history involved with this person. You see, this anonymous editor frequently will follow my edits in a form of stalking, and simply undos them, repeatedly (without reason or even in the interest of Wikipedia) solely to provoke me, nothing more.

As mentioned, this all began in mid 2007 when there was a dispute over the language used for the title of an article. This user well knows the rules and guidelines of Wikipedia, that English is language to be used, but continues to revert naming from English to French. When the debate was ended by another user, posting proof the official name of the stadium is English (on the government of Quebec's own website), s/he became humiliated and angered. Then ever since has been trying to provoke and antagonize me with uncalled for insults, or erasing my contributions without reason. You may also not be aware, and to further put this in context, the use of the English language is not at all welcome in the province of Quebec, and has been the source of tension and conflict here. Some language radicals have even turned to threats of violence against those speaking or publicly displaying the language. Access to English education, government services and public signage in English is heavily restricted or outright banned by law in Quebec.

As far as civility goes, if you think I've been more uncivil, please have a look at some of this user's comments in just the Ben's Deli article alone (I can present you with more).

...remember, this has been going on for 4 and a half years now, in several articles, and I've even tried amicably reasoning with him/her, but to no avail. I'd be happy to call a truce with this person but they don't seem interested. -- Apple2gs (talk) 02:06, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Examples of abuse and provocation by this anonymous user:

(cur | prev) 12:50, 29 October 2007‎ 216.254.160.18 (talk)‎ . . (8,190 bytes) (-101)‎ . . (why don't you fix this abombmination

(cur | prev) 11:05, 29 October 2007‎ 216.254.163.112 (talk)‎ . . (8,190 bytes) (-101)‎ . . (My god man, leave the change. Apple2gs writes so poorly it is painful to read. He uses more words than less, ironically he can't edit, and he can't spell, and his phrasing is back-asswards. Leave it!) k-asswards. Leave it!

(cur | prev) 04:02, 14 January 2009‎ 207.112.30.173 (talk)‎ . . (13,033 bytes) (-242)‎ . . (Who wrote this unadulterated shit ... a 3 year old?)

(cur | prev) 00:52, 25 July 2011‎ 70.26.51.102 (talk)‎ . . (9,886 bytes) (-21)‎ . . (Completely unnessecary edit, additional verbiage added for no reason, meaning is self evident without edit. ARRET!) (undo)

(cur | prev) 19:46, 12 September 2011‎ 70.50.219.58 (talk)‎ . . (9,898 bytes) (-6)‎ . . (When you are dead and gone, your grave stone will read: "One word too many. No, far too many.") (undo)

THIS PERSON EVEN COMMENTED ON HIS BEHAVIOR--->

(cur | prev) 22:12, 28 February 2008‎ 207.134.234.25 (talk)‎ . . (7,491 bytes) (+17)‎ . . (stop messing with the guy's edits...they're fine!

May 2012

Your recent editing history at Bens De Luxe Delicatessen & Restaurant shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. I'm sorry, but I gave the other editor one and I deem this appropriate for 3RR. Chip123456 (talk) 06:51, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

re: troll

Please don't post comments in talk archives. They're supposed to be a record of past discussions, and in any case it's unlikely anyone will see your comments there.

I'm no longer an admin. I suggest you follow the guidelines at WP:username. Personally, I'd block all accounts indefinitely, so you might want to request a block or ban. — kwami (talk) 01:57, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. Actually I just searched under 'Contributions' to quickly find and pull up the last discussion I had on your Talk page, without realizing it was an archived section. Also didn't know you're no longer an admin, though if you can point me to another who you'd recommend for help, it'd be appreciated.--Apple2gs (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Montefiore Club

Hello there. I see you're in Montreal. I'm wondering if you're anywhere near Guy Street? I'm looking for a photo of the old Montefiore Club, now part of Concordia. It's beside Bar-b-Barn, just below St. Catherine. If you happen to be in the area, a pic of the front door and plaque would be lovely. Many thanks if you can help. Best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:09, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello! I'm actually very familiar with that area (I'm a former Concordia student, and before that went to high school downtown). I don't live that far, I'd be happy to snap a shot next time I'm downtown. Do you know the specific address, or could you describe which building it is?

Here is it on Google Maps, street view (you may even be able to grab a photo from there, you can move 360 and zoom in and out): https://maps.google.com/maps?q=montreal+bbarn&hl=en&ll=45.494089,-73.575675&spn=0.005287,0.009645&sll=45.494553,-73.576308&layer=c&cid=17577893138856059987&cbp=13,48.2,,0,-10.51&cbll=45.494426,-73.576483&hq=montreal+bbarn&t=h&z=17&panoid=1RDP5rcORuT_39kwUzin5A

--Apple2gs (talk) 21:23, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes. It's 1195, directly to the right of Bar-b-Barn. It has a green awning over the door. I'm afraid we can't grab the google maps photo for copyright reasons. Actually, if you do take a photo of the club, why not also take a photo of Bar-b-Barn. I can see that becoming an article one day, like Schwartz's. Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:42, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see which building it is. I'll try and take some photos in a few weeks, when the surroundings are more spring-like (winter photos are very drab). As for the Bar-b-Barn, I'd be a little indifferent about starting an article. It's a chain restaurant that's really gone downhill from reviews I've read, but then again, so has Schwartz's. I'd be more inclined to do an article on history-rich restaurants like Snowdon Dell or Chatlet BBQ. --Apple2gs (talk) 14:52, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Good plan on the springtime photos. They'll be better.

I was thinking about someone starting a Bar-b-Barn article in about 10 or 20 years. But, now that you say it's gone down hill, maybe it will never become a Schwartz's. Pity. It used to be so good.

No Chale BBQ article? That's a candidate. Swiss Chalet but they were never connected, right?

Snowdon Deli I could see having an article, and maybe Montreal's Brown Derby too.

A couple more suggestions (if you like-- no obligation):

• Mount Royal across from the Plateau, near Park Ave. has a bunch of insane people each weekend who gather up the mountain 100 yds. behind the statue to fight with fake swords. Sort of a strange punk/squatter-like group, rather filthy. Certainly a candidate for an article, photos, and even a short video. I think it may be covered somewhere, but I forget where.
• Cinema V (Empress Theatre (Montreal)) if it looks any different.

Cheers, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Hah, I still remember the old Bar-b-Barn TV ads with Ralph Lockwood. Almost wish I could go back in time and try it then, never been to the restaurant in all my years as a Montrealer (unfortunately photos and reviews I've recently seen don't quite match what it was of yesteryear). Chalet BBQ and Snowdon Deli go back to at least the 1940s, so they have history, but either way they're definitely food staples of Montreal. We lost the Brown Derby and The Yangtze on Van Horne, both are no more sadly. I do have Cinema V photos I took, as well as the Seville before it was demolished. Also snapped several shots of Ben's Deli. I can ad some of those.Apple2gs (talk) 00:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Lockwood! Dear oh dear! What was that, CKGM or something?

Remember Great Antonio? We used to see him at a Guy Street coffee shop. He would eat a massive breakfast and pots of coffee. I once saw him get into a taxi in Toronto, and the thing almost bottomed out.

Pity about Brown Derby. I don't remember the Yangtze, but Ruby Foo's is a bit of history. I'm sad to hear about the Seville. Photos of Seville Theatre would be a huge asset. So, it appears you are a goldmine!!!! Here is the link for you. :) I can't tell you how pleased I am. Best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

New Apple II timeline

Since you contributed to a discussion in Apple II series Timeline, I thought you'd be interested in a new image I generated. It's a work in progress, but since you seemed to be interested, I thought I'd let you know. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 23:36, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Apple IIGS positivity

I would be happy to mention some more positive discussion of the IIGS ... if I can find some! The closest I've found is inCider's October 1986 issue. Having Wozniak on the cover telling readers that the IIGS is "amazing!" does not inspire confidence in the article's objectivity, but even it can't deny that the Mac, not the IIGS, is at the top of Apple's product line.

Bruce Webster developed SunDog: Frozen Legacy; he knows Apple II game development as well as anyone. If he believed that the ST's graphics (performancewise there is no question given the disparity in CPUs) are superior to that of the IIGS I'm inclined to believe him. If you disagree then the thing to do is to find other reliable sources that agree with you, not call him "POV" (a claim that is meaningless for a reliable source, which Webster and BYTE unquestionably are). Ylee (talk) 14:31, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

There are a lot more positives to be found concerning the machine (from reliable quotable sources), than just Wozinak's one word adjective on the front cover of a magazine. The machine introduced many technologies and innovations well before the Mac did, and in fact some were brought over to that platform in later years. In many ways it was leaps and bounds above the competition (Amiga, Atari ST, IBM, Mac) from a technical stand point, which wouldn't catch up until the early to mid 1990's. Where the machine suffered was a lack of a support and commitment from Apple (primarily) and as a result, third party software developers too. Speed was its main Achilles heel, which Apple purposely refused to address in order to keep it hobbled to prevent cutting into Mac sales (there's an interesting story about how Bill Mench of WDC, showed a bag 10 MHz 65C816 CPU's at an Apple conference, protesting Apple wouldn't use his faster available chips, and promptly got kicked off the stage by Apple). Mention of how Apple went out of its way to neglect and hinder the machine should be added to the article; certainly a negative, but an important historical fact.

As for graphics. The IIGS had a palette of 4,096 colors (256 distinct shades, with 16 hues of each, for creating subtle color blends). The Atari ST only had a palette of 512 colors (64 distinct shades, with only 8 hues each) which gave it inferior looking images. That alone gave the GS near-photographic quality images, compared to the grainy and dithered arcade-like graphics of the ST. Futhermore the GS could display up to 256 colors per screen (16 colors per scanline) without affecting CPU timing. Animation wise, the ST and Amiga were superior, but even despite the GS's hardware limitations of no hardware sprites and a crippled/slow CPU, programmers managed to do some incredible animation by programming on-the-metal so to speak (a few random examples: Rastan, Task Force, Sword of Sodan, Out of This World, Wolf 3D, or just about anything done by the FTA and Ninjaforce). I think the article should describe all the potential and innovation the machine had, but held back unnecessarily by Apple, just just paragraph after paragraph of its shortcomings without explaining why. In any case, I think we should move this to the Apple IIGS Talk page. --Apple2gs (talk) 18:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Don't try to sell me on the IIGS's virtues. I am not the audience; Wikipedia readers are. If you want to convince them that the IIGS was a better choice for a consumer c. 1987 than the Amiga or Atari ST, come up with reliable sources that say so and use them to add to the article. WP:NOTAFORUM. Ylee (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Expo 67

Thanks for doing some well-needed clean-up to the article. One point that I would like to raise, however, is your change of Ile Notre Dame to Notre Dame Island, and Ile Sainte Hélène to Saint Helen's Island. From what I recall when I lived in Montréal in the ’80s, no-one—Anglo or Francophone—ever used the English names for the islands. Useddenim (talk) 13:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Hopefully it might inspire more clean ups. :) For the record, I did not moved/change Ile Sainte Hélène to Saint Helen's Island, it was moved by Violetriga some 10 years ago, in August 2005. Considering that, for consistency sake and following with the common name guideline, I felt Norte Dame needed to undergo the same move, even if years late. Or, perhaps go the other way and change both island names to the French spelling.

At any rate, perhaps I jumped the gun as there was a move request followed by a vote for Ile Sainte-Helene to be moved to Saint Helen's Island (the consensus was to move it in the end). I'm certainly open to a vote and moving it back if need be. For the record, I have seen and heard it referred to as "Norte Dame Island", even as far back as 1967. For the closest example, see the Official Map of Expo 67 at the top of the article, any mentions of the island's name in the English description.----Apple2gs (talk) 04:56, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Mirabel

Hello. I have reversed your article move, because it potentially raises the same issue for a number of other Quebec airport articles, and there should be a discussion. Please share your thoughts at Talk:Montréal–Mirabel International Airport#Proposed move to Montreal–Mirabel International Airport. Thanks. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

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Expo 67#‎External links

User:Aircorn has been making wholesale deletions of external links in numerous articles, including this one that you've made a substantial contribution to. After I reverted him the first time he went back and again deleted all but a half-dozen of them one by one. Would you mind reviewing his changes? Thanks! Useddenim (talk) 03:03, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

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Apple trouts

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

You reverted a lot of Apple-related stuff. I'm just letting you know. Angelgreat (talk) 20:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Angelgreat -- I realize that my reverting not one, but simultaneously THREE of your edits to the Apple info-boxes must seem a bit harsh (re: predecessor/successor for the Apple III, IIe and IIGS), but please don't take it the wrong way or let it discourage you from making future edits and contributions. I'm sure you made those edits in good good faith, but in this particular case I reverted what I felt was, to be honest, misinformation or even a slanted view at best. The Apple II, Apple III and Apple Lisa lines had no successors, Apple simply ceased sales, production and support--they were given no migration path. To claim the Macintosh was ultimately their successor is just wrong, and feeds into a false narrative of Apple's history and past, even whitewashing its repeated abandonment of products.

Nevertheless, if you disagree or want to discuss those changes I reverted, pleases feel free to open a discussion on Apple III (talk), Apple IIe (talk) or Apple IIGS (talk) pages linked here. I don't want to just say you're wrong, I'm happy to explain my stance so you have a better understanding of the history and technicalities. With regards to the Apple IIe, it almost is debatable as to whether the Apple IIGS was its successor, as technically it WAS, but from a marketing and Apple corporate position, it wasn't (it was a strange situation to say the least! I still don't agree with Apple's past marketing of those two machines to this day, but Wikipedia is about stating facts and not so much our personal opinions).--Apple2gs (talk) 01:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

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Apple II GS games

Hey there, I figured this is a topic you might like to talk about. ;) I remember back when I was in high school, we had a room full of Apple computers but only one or two of these, so my classmates usually took one before I could get to it. :)

Anyway, thank you for improving Alien Mind, and your previous work on Xenocide (video game)! Have you had a chance to look at any of these, which I created or contributed to?: 2088: The Cryllan Mission, Balance of Power: The 1990 Edition, The Black Cauldron (video game), Cribbage King / Gin King, Dream Zone, The Fidelity Chessmaster 2100, Final Assault, Halls of Montezuma: A Battle History of the U.S. Marine Corps, Keef the Thief, Mini-Putt (video game), Panzer Battles (video game), Pick 'n Pile, Questron II, Shanghai (video game), Shanghai II: Dragon's Eye, Solitaire Royale, Star Saga One: Beyond the Boundary, Star Saga: Two - The Clathran Menace, The Third Courier, Tomahawk (video game), Tower of Myraglen, and Windwalker (video game). Not to give you no credit, but I saw that you did make minor edits to many of these. :) In many cases, I also linked to other reviews that I did not myself add to the article, in case you wanted to really work on improving them! BOZ (talk) 00:52, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi there, thanks for reaching out! We had exactly *one* Apple IIGS in high school, and I was always first to grab it for programming classes. It sadly was used as a color IIe compatible before I registered at that school, but as I had IIGS at home, needless to say, I unlocked the potential of the school's machine and showed off what it was really capable of (perhaps a little too much, as it got used as an arcade machine between computer classes, and the hallways echoed with the sounds of Zany Golf, Rastan, Senseless Violence, Arkanoid II, etc, much to the displeasure of the teachers and staff).

Thanks for creating (and pointing out!) those stub articles. I'll have a look and help out if I can. To be honest though, I'm really only interested in expanding articles for IIGS-only games, or ones that originated on the machine. I also rewrote much of The Immortal article recently, but became a little discouraged as one editor in particular continually removed my edits. Still, I'm very active with any Apple II/IIGS editing. In fact I'm the original creator for the articles of the Apple IIe, Apple IIc, and Apple IIc Plus (they've not changed much in the past 16-17 years!) here on Wikipedia , as well as large sections of the Apple IIGS article. Been reworking the Apple IIe Card and GS/OS articles recently too. The photographs of the IIc Plus and IIe Card are scans of my own hardware, and I always get a kick when I see them appear all over the Internet, in reviews, YouTube shows, etc, even the outside world! I'm thinking, those look familiar. :) --Apple2gs (talk) 21:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

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