Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Most common word used in Sherlock Holmes stories

I just finished reading the Complete Works of Sherlock Holmes. Not sure if any one else realized this, but Doyle uses the word singular in almost every single story. --sh3rlockian 01:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

He was a Freemason

Sorry if this as been told before. Theres a link with famous freemasons on the grand lodge of Scotland Website. Of which Sir Athur Conan Doyle is one. More suprisingly Jim Davidsons one also. No wonder he got to host the Generation Game.81.129.191.17 15:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Practical jokes

There's a story somewhat popular among preachers that goes like this: Doyle was a practical joker. Once he sent the same telegram to twelve of his friends: "All is discovered. Flee at once." All twelve left the country.

The statement about the telegram is party true, i think it around 4 out of 12 left the county, (currently doing english literature GCSE) Pyrojack175 (talk) 19:54, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Google turns up a number of such citations [1].

<>< tbc

This looks like a hoax, or urban legend to me. I recall having heard something about it before, but almost every single citation I discovered turns up in a sermon, used to illustrate the well-travelled theme of guilt. The twelve friends can also be the twelve most important men in England. sjc

The plot of one of the Holmes stories, "The 'Gloria Scott'", hinges on such a message. --RjLesch

Thanks! I made the story a link so page visitors can read it. I scanned through it and see exactly what you mean. However, the message in that context isn't a prank.

<>< tbc

---

There are many more citations at Google attributing the quote to Mark Twain [2].

<>< tbc

Link suggestions

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Jean Conan Doyle

Is anyone familiar with what Copyrights to the Holmes character were held by Dame Jean Conan Doyle before her death? According to one biography her brother sold off some of the copyrights and original manuscripts in an illegal sale to an American University in order to retain his french estate. I was just hoping to beef-up the Jean Conan Doyle article with more info.

Also, pherhaps we could add more information around the legal copyrights of Conan Doyle. I know that he had to sell the copyright of A Study in Scarlet in order to get it publish and recived a total of 20 pounds for the story...but by the late 1980's Jean Conan Doyle could still axe certain Holmes publications and complained to the producers of Star Trek The Next Generation when Brent Spiner played Sherlock Holmes in a holodeck episode.

User:Dowew

In article 7 of his will Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: "My executors shall deal as they think best with copyrights, plays, cinema rights, or unpublished MSS, it being my wish that the advice and cooperation of A.S. Watt of 10 Norfolk Street be always obtained. The yearly income on the capital sums derived from such sources shall always be divided as already stated-one half to my wife, one half divided among three younger children."

(You can view jpgs of Doyle's will as well as the transcribed version here: http://www.theconsultingdetective.com/shessay5.html )

This is a really bad way to devise (give by will) your literary property. The result was that the copyrights remained in the Doyle estate without a neutral party to oversee them.

Doyle designated his wife Jean and his eldest son Denis as executors. However, Doyle's children (especially Adrian, who is referred to as "Malcolm" in the will) and their surviving spouses and heirs have feuded over the copyrights for almost 70 years.

I don't believe this is matter that Wikipedia should get into the middle of.

DarleneCypserEsq 19:58, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

1929 ban

Quote from the article:His work on this topic was one of the reasons that one of his short story collections, The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, was banned in the Soviet Union in 1929 under the pretense of occultism.

Well, I have a book, published in the Soviet Union in Russian in 1978 (300,000 copies), which contains this collection. I can provide more precise data about that edition if someone desire.

Therefore, even if this ban was, it was cancelled later. I'll add this into the article now. By the way, if someone will find non-wiki information about that ban, please, add a link into the article or here, because, for example, I didn't hear about that ban at all. Cmapm 19:20, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Father

"Richard Doyle's hopeless alcoholism is evident in all of the Holmes stories." "But, Doyle never once mentions alcohol in his stories." "That is why it is evident."

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Lestrade (talk • contribs) 15:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Against Koch and his proxies

The NEJM this week[3] gives a fascinating account how ACD traveled to Berlin to learn about Robert Koch's "treatment" for tuberculosis. He unmasked it as a speculative and probably irrelevant finding, and was vindicated in doing so. Perhaps this should be mentioned here. JFW | T@lk 23:45, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that was a fascinating article. I heard the suggestion somewhere that the method of Sherlock Holmes was the method of medical diagnostics that Holmes learned in medical school from one of his teachers in particular. Anyway, here are my notes of that NEJM article:

NEJM, 8 Dec 2005, 353(23):2426, Perspective: Medical History: The Medical Detectives, Howard Markel. Arthur Conan Doyle was a medical journalist, and broke a story on the limitations of Robert Koch's treatment for tuberculosis. Koch announced a "remedy for tuberculosis," on 6 Aug 1890, at the 10th International Medical Congress, Berlin. This was "Koch's lymph," a glycerin extract of tuberculosis germs. It was reported 13 Nov 1890 Deutsche Medizinische Wochenscrift, 15 Nov 1890 BMJ, 16 Nov 1890 New York Times. Koch never claimed that he discovered a "cure," but that his "remedy destroyed the tissue in which the tuberculosis germs had settled, so that the entire diseased area would simply be sloughed off and then expelled through coughing." Conan Doyle, who had published A Study in Scarlet in 1887, read the translation of Koch's paper in BMJ, which announced that Ernst von Bergmann would demonstrate the tuberculosis remedy at the University of Berlin later that week. [Conan Doyle's wife, Louise Hawkins, had TB.] Conan Doyle immediately boarded a train for London, got an assignment to write about it from the Review of Reviews, and arrived in Berlin 16 Nov. But tickets to von Bergmann's clinical demonstration were "simply not to be had and neither money nor interest could procure them." Conan Doyle went to Koch's home, but the butler told Conan Doyle that Koch was unavailable. On 17 Nov, Conan Doyle went to the medical auditorium, "but neither bribes nor his clumsy attempts at slipping by the ticket taker" secured him entry. Conan Doyle threw himself in front of von Bergmann and said, "I have come a thousand miles. May I not come in?" Bergman glared through his pince-nez and replied, to laughs and jeers, "Perhaps you would like to take my place? That is the only one vacant!" Henry J. Hartz, TB specialist from Detroit, was appaled by von Bergmann's bad behavior, and agreed to share his notes. Next morning, Hartz escorted Conan Doyle into von Bergmann's clinical wards to examine the patients treated by Koch's lymph. After analyzing the data, Conan Doyle concluded, "The whole thing was experimental and premature," as he wrote in the London Daily Telegraph of 20 Nov 1890, and in the Review of Reviews. Koch's lymph left germs "deep in the invaded country," and its real value was as an aid to diagnosis. In 1891, Koch admitted this.Nbauman 10:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Selected Bibliography?

Any particular reason why we only have a selected bibliography here? Other authors have complete bibliographies...

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.196.191 (talk) 19:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Delisted Good Article

This article is no longer a "good article" because it does not have any references. joturner 03:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Arthur's father: Richard or Charles?

Wikipedia currently lists illustrator Richard Doyle as Arthur Conan Doyle's father. However, in Victorian Fairy Painting, published by the Royal Academy of Arts, London in 1997, Victorianists Pamela White Trimpe (p 58) and Jeremy Maas (p 17) list Richard's brother Charles as Arthur's father. Richard and Charles were born in London, which is where Richard also died. Charles, on the other hand, moved to Edinburgh. Both brothers were celebrated illustrators, but Charles less so, partly because he was institutionalized for alcoholism and epilepsy in the 1870s and remained "in and out of institutions" for the rest of his life (Trimpe 58). According to Trimpe, the work of Charles Doyle only resurfaced in the 1920s under the curation of his son, Arthur Conan Doyle.

Charles Altemont Doyle was Conan Doyle's father. I've corrected this Daibhid C 20:09, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Portsmouth F.C.

This article says that Arthur Conan Doyle "helped form Portsmouth Football Club, playing as the club's first goalkeeper and occasionally as a right back between 1884 and 1890." Portsmouth F.C. calls that assertion "a common myth": "While Conan Doyle did play for an amateur side, Portsmouth AFC, that flourished from 1882 to 1894, the first goalkeeper of the professional era was Matt Reilly who previously played for the successful Royal Artillery team." Which of these is true? Aecis ^{Appleknocker Flophouse} 18:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparently the latter: that he played for the amateur club Portsmouth AFC, but not for its successor, the professional Portsmouth FC. There's a book on the subject reviewed here (Sherlock Holmes Was a Pompey Keeper by Kevin Smith). Tearlach 08:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I also followed up on this some on the web; while a few sites mentioned Doyle playing as goalkeeper, none gave any sort of verifiable material supporting the supposition. On the Portsmouth F.C. official website, there is no mention whatsoever of Doyle in either the History or Trivia sections — which would be a surprising omission had he actually been on the team in any capacity. As such, I corrected the statement. Tijuana Brass^¡Épa! 00:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

photographic memory

I've heard that Doyle had a photographic memory, going so far as to insert false weather accounts in his stories (e.g. since he had memorized the Farmer's Almanac, he would incorrectly state the weather of a given day in his works as a joke to himself). Can anyone verify this? - IstvanWolf 07:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Doyle as advocate of justice

I believe the following to be incorrect:

"Doyle was also a fervent advocate of justice, and personally investigated two closed cases, which led to two imprisoned men being released. "

I understand that the suspect in the first case, George Edalji, had already been released before Sir Doyle began investigations?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by TimPH (talk • contribs) 13:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

What's with

the vandalism ?

Undoubtedly the work of Professor Moriarty. I believe something's afoot! Gzuckier 20:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Bio?

Why is this biographical part titled "Love Life"? Do I miss something here?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.151.146.243 (talk) 14:01, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

External links

Some external links were posted from User talk:72.138.243.62.

I deleted them, and received a very nice, detailed and professional followup from User talk:Arnold Villeneuve.

Comments, anyone? -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 06:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea what the links were supposed to give, as they only generate gibberish in my Mac browsers (both Safari and Firefox). I would say the links do not belong here until they have a format which is accessible to everyone. If they contain information that is not already on the page, add that information to the page, and leave the links as references. Mlewan 06:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I just tried it in Firefox on my Windows box and also on Firefox & Safari on my PowerBook G4. I see a tree view on the left side, with different chunks of text displayed based on where I click. I have no idea what to make of it. I've invited Arnold Villeneuve to explain it either here or on Talk:Winston Churchill. -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 07:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

In popular culture

I've just done some fiddling with:

• Mark Twain in popular culture
• Nikola Tesla in popular culture

and proposed a similar one for Thomas Edison and was thinking it might be worth getting the ball rolling for Arthur Conan Doyle in popular culture. Off the top of my head there is Arthur & George, Necronauts, FairyTale: A True Story and Photographing Fairies. Anymore? (Emperor 19:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC))

He also appears in The Searchers. (Emperor 20:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC))

Cricket infobox

I've removed the cricket infobox. While the info in it is accurate, it gives the page the appearance of vandalism, and falsely implies that the man was mostly known as a cricketer. I've added the cricket stats as an external link, which is where I think they belong. --Trevor Burnham 03:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I've re-added a cricket infobox; the newer infobox is now much less obtrusive, and we have a primary infobox for his work in literature. If anyone wants further comment, please see WT:CRIC.—MDCollins (talk) 23:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Doyle or Conan Doyle?

I had always assumed the correct form was eg 'Conan Doyle was a Scot' rather than 'Doyle was a Scot', but from the evidence of this article - and other subsidiary pages (eg Professor Challenger) - this doesn't seem to be the case. Are there any Conan Doyleans (or Doyleans) out there that can shed any light on this? I think we should be consistent and use either one form or the other.Ericoides 21:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I think so too. His surname was Conan Doyle, wasn't it? All the category sorting is wrong too. Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

In fact, we had a strange mixture of "Doyle" and "Conan Doyle". I've changed them all to "Conan Doyle" now. Stephen Turner (Talk) 21:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

His surname was Doyle; Conan was the last of his given names. Somehow, this evolved into calling him "Conan Doyle" as a supposed compound surname. Did he ever use the compound surname himself? If not, then it's incorrect. If he did use it, it's a case similar to Andrew Lloyd Webber. Combining a middle name and a surname to create a compound surname and a false air of aristorcracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 17:12, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Name usage was rather more flexible in Arthur Conan Doyle's time than today, when the huge number of pro forma often forces clarity about surnames. Quite a few of his contemporaries also had names that create uncertainties - for example what was the surname of Andrew Bonar Law? (Strictly speaking it was "Law", but many including even he used "Bonar Law".) Or James Ramsay MacDonald, normally known by his last two names with "Ramsay" treated as a forename but he only found out in his 40s that he was registered at birth as "James MacDonald Ramsay". Timrollpickering (talk) 07:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Did Arthur Conan Doyle invent helmets for modern warfare

I recall hearing somewhere that Conan Doyle suggested that soldiers returned to wearing steel helmets as he'd noticed that most gunshot wounds were to the head. Could a Doyle expert confirm or deny this?

TIA!

Apepper 17:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have read in the front cover of one of his books that he not only suggested the helmet for the British Army (see above), but suggested the parachute for the RAF, and introduced skiing to Switzerland. Not including fingerprinting and the "fact" that the French police used Sherlock as an instruction manual for its force early in the 20th Century. Is any of this true?

Myaddiction 10:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Strand Magazine

Slightly surprised no-one's mentioned the importance of Strand Magazine in all this. When did this magazine print his serialised stories? Davidbod 21:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

According to the jacket of "The Original Illustrated 'Strand' Sherlock Holmes The Complete Facsimile Edition" [ISBN 1-85326-932-8], The Strand started in 1891, four years after Holmes first appeared in "A Study In Scarlet" (1887) and just after "The Sign Of Four" (1890) was published. There were 24 stories in The Strand between 1891 and 1893, then nothing until "The Hound Of THe Baskervilles" was issued in 15 parts during 1901 and 1902. 13 stories were published between 1903 and 1904 as well. Not until 1908 did more stories appear. "Reminiscences of Sherlock Holmes" was a six story publication between 1908 and 1913, followed by the two part "Valley Of Fear" (with seven episodes per part) through 1914-1915. "His Last Bow", subtitled "The War Service of Sherlock Holmes" was in 1917. It was not until "The Case-Book Of Serlock Holmes" appeared in 1921, that readers of the Strand heard from him again, and the Case-Book ran through 12 parts, finally finishing in 1927. Myaddiction 13:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Where are the drugs?

I wonder why there's only any accounts of Doyle's clean living in this article? It is an omission that borders on deception.Stephen Kinch 08:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

External links clean up

I have had a wander thought the external links section. Most are fine, the following have some problems (as noted) have been moved here, they should not reappear without discussion.

• www.biographyshelf.com -- Links to avoid #4
• 221bbakerstreet.info -- Links to avoid #1
• www.classic-literature.co.uk/--Links to avoid #5
• www.sherlock-holmes.es --In Spanish, (does not meet exception criteria specified in: Wikipedia:External links#Foreign-language links)
• www.sherlock-holmes.co.uk --Links to avoid #3, #4
• www.nevasport.com Conan Doyle, ski pioneer--In Spanish, (does not meet exception criteria.)--DO11.10 23:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Title

The article is called "Arthur conan doyle", but the first words are sir arthur conan doyle. Surely the name of the article should be changed? --Will James 07:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No; the convention is to use the unadorned name for the title - otherwise, how about Margaret_Thatcher, or Winston_Churchill? Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(people) notes:article names preferably don't add qualifiers (such as "King", "Saint", "Dr.", "(person)", "(ship)"), except when this is the simplest and most NPOV way to deal with disambiguation. --Stephen Burnett 08:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Date contradiction

On this article, the hound of the baskervilles was said to be published in 1902, but in the article "The return of sherlock holmes" they say the hound was published in 1901. This contradiction could quite possibly undermine the wikipedia website and bring an end to the world as we know it. --Will James 07:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Another earth-shattering note :-

I have a copy of [Adventures...] which contains editions of "The Man with the Twisted Lip" as well as "The Speckled Band". Are these MSS one and the same, or differing versions from those individually listed in the "selected" biography? MonstaPro 13:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Conan Doyle in Project Gutenberg

There has been no note made of many of Holmes' adventures being listed in Project Gutenberg's database. As copyright issues have been raised (from Conan Doyle's children, see above), should a link be made? MonstaPro 13:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Years don't make any sense

If Conan Doyle set up a practice in 1882 and then began writing stories he would have been well over 20. Either his first literary experience was before setting up a practice or it wasn't before he was 20

I've edited the paras concerning his student years and early medical practice. --Stephen Burnett 07:21, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Bad writing

"After the death of his wife Louisa in 1906, and the deaths of his son Kingsley, his brother, his two brothers-in-law, and his two nephews in World War I, Conan Doyle sank into depression. He found solace supporting Spiritualism and its alleged scientific proof of existence beyond the grave."

These deaths must be at least 8 years apart, and yet its being presented as one event that turned ACD to depression and spiritualism. Sheriff Bernard 20:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Conan Doyle or Doyle?

(Copied from User talk:Carcharoth)

...you added a DEFAULTSORT to Arthur Conan Doyle. Unfortunately, there was (a) already an existing DEFAULTSORT and (b) your DEFAULTSORT was incorrect. He should be sorted under "Conan Doyle, Arthur", not "Doyle, Arthur Conan". Carcharoth 23:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Carcharoth. I'm sorry that I didn't notice there was an existing DEFAULTSORT for Doyle, and I'm always happy to be corrected, but would you mind explaining your view that "Doyle, Arthur Conan" is incorrect? His surname was Doyle. Conan was a given name and was not used by his father Charles Doyle or his son Kingsley Doyle. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography lists him under 'D' as ‘Doyle, Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan (1859–1930)’. Regards, Xn4 23:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I was going by the article, which says "Conan was originally a given name, but Doyle used it as part of his surname in his later years", and also refers to him as "Conan Doyle" throughout. Your point about the DNB is a good one. I'm not sure what to do here. It has also been discussed at Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle#Doyle or Conan Doyle?. I'll copy all this over to the talk page for discussion. Thanks for pointing this out. Carcharoth 00:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

(end copied section)

Can anyone here shed light on this? Carcharoth 00:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I had another thought and looked him up at www.1901censusonline.com (the 1901 UK census). He appears in that as Arthur C. Doyle, aged 41, born Edingborough [sic] Scotland, of Forest Row, East Sussex, Physician. Xn4 01:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, you will find that sort of thing because he changed his surname during his lifetime from "Doyle" to "Conan Doyle", though I would be happier if that sentence in the article was referenced and we knew whether it was a formal change or an informal change on his part. The question is, do we index by "Doyle" (his birth surname) or by "Conan Doyle" (his adopted surname)? Carcharoth 09:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Lots of sources say he adopted Conan (a middle name) as part of his surname in his "later years", but I've been unable to track down the details. One source did disagree though: "Born on May 22, 1859, to Mary and Charles Altamont Doyle, Conan Doyle was one of 10 children, seven of whom would survive into adulthood (and two of whom were given the compound surname Conan Doyle in honor of a paternal uncle)."[4] Unfortunately, it is not clear whether Arthur Conan Doyle was one of these two children, though it is implied. Carcharoth 11:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

And one of the paternal uncles was Richard Doyle (illustrator), also known as "Dickie Doyle". There are some hits for "Richard Conan Doyle", but not many. The other paternal uncles, also artists, were "Charles Doyle" and "James Doyle". Carcharoth 11:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I've tightened up the linking between Conan Doyle and the articles on his father (Charles Altamont Doyle) and uncle (Richard Doyle). No article on his grandfather though, see John Doyle if anyone wants to write a stub. Carcharoth 12:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Whether it was a formal or informal change of name, it is essentially no different from referencing Eric Blair under his preferred professional name of George Orwell. He wanted his surname to be "Conan Doyle". -- JackofOz 13:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be a working theory here that Doyle changed his surname from Doyle to Conan Doyle, but is there any evidence of that?

One problem which strikes me is that it is fairly easy in the UK to change your surname, and it was even easier a hundred years ago, but names given in Christian baptism remain as Christian names. It wasn't unusual for baby Jenks to be baptized Hugo Heckmondwike, after his rich uncle Hugo Heckmondwike, of Heckmondwike Hall, who had no children. In the fullness of time, there was a chance at least that Uncle Hugo would leave his estates to young Hugo Heckmondwike Jenks, probably on condition that he adopted the name and arms of Heckmondwike. But when he did, young Hugo didn't become Hugo Heckmondwike, he became Hugo Heckmondwike Heckmondwike.

So if Doyle did formally change his surname, it is surprising that he is nowhere referred to as Arthur Ignatius Conan Conan Doyle! Xn4 13:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree we should index him under 'C'. For those looking under 'D', he is listed at Doyle, and Conan Doyle redirects here, so we have to hope that those looking at lists under 'D' will find Doyle and get here that way. I'm tempted to categorise the redirect Arthur C. Doyle under 'D' to help people navigate here if they end up looking under 'D'. It would also be nice to know more about the change, but the above was all I could find. Carcharoth 13:45, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle was born on May 22, 1859 ... From his great-uncle Michael Conan, a distinguished journalist, Arthur and his elder sister, Annette, received the compound surname of Conan Doyle.

Teller of Tales: The Life of Arthur Conan Doyle, Daniel Stashower, Penguin Books, 2000

--Stephen Burnett 14:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Perfect! Do you want to put that in the article, or shall I? :-) Carcharoth 14:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. Carcharoth 14:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Stashower seems to have it wrong, except that the origin of 'Conan' in a great-uncle called Michael Conan may be correct. Some biographical articles say that the name Conan was given to Doyle as a Christian name, while others say he added it himself later in life. But only one of those alternatives can be correct, and for some reason the Wikipedia article treats the first as authoritative. In any event, if the name was a given name in 1859, it was not then part of a compound surname (one not shared by his parents), as Stashower claims, so the Wikipedia article contradicts itself in quoting his claim as a fact... When ACD gave his answers for the 1901 census he stated his surname as Doyle, and almost all standard reference books (from the Dictionary of National Biography to the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations) index him under D for Doyle. I wonder what evidence there is from original sources that Doyle ever looked on 'Conan' as part of his surname? Xn4 00:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Heh. I thought that all sounded a bit too perfect. Looks like there is confusion among the sources. We should document that as far as we are able, but not get too bogged down (there may be no definitive answer). Anyone want to try and communicate all this in the article? Carcharoth 02:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've added something that will at least make people think and not assume one or the other is correct. Please correct or expand if you can. Carcharoth 02:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

• Most sources are vague, but this one is more definitive: "...at the age of seventeen, Arthur Doyle, (as he was called, before adding his middle name "Conan" to his surname), was..." Carcharoth 02:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Again from Stashower: Another change at Bush Villas could be found on the brass nameplate outside, which now read "A. Conan Doyle M.D". And Stashower quotes in full the title of the thesis which earned him the MD, giving the author's name as A. Conan Doyle, MB, CM. This was just after his wedding to his first wife Louisa, in 1885, when Conan Doyle was 26. I've edited the note in the article to reflect this.

I would say myself that the use of "Conan" rather than the second initial "C", in these two very formal contexts, is strong evidence that he regarded "Conan" as part of his surname from quite early on, and before he had made any great reputation as a writer. It certainly seems to make the statement that he adopted it in later life difficult to sustain. I do however acknowledge that this does make his census response very puzzling. Also, the Oxford Companion to English Literature has him under Doyle, with a re-direction under "Conan Doyle". The situation is of course made all the more uncertain by the fact that he never used the hyphenated form - ie "Conan-Doyle" - which used to be a common convention when two family names were combined. --Stephen Burnett 07:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

For some censuses, the names are spelt/arranged the way the census taker took them or interpreted them. Not sure if this was the case for the 1901 census or not. United Kingdom Census 1901 doesn't help. Maybe look him up in the other censuses as well? Carcharoth 09:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, if they are available. Of course, we are used to the idea of a census conducted using forms filled in by the individuals themselves - but as you point out, it warn't necessarily so :) --Stephen Burnett 10:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a more interesting question than it looks. No end of people play around with their names, but not so many do it in the public eye without some formality. Doyle was a clever fellow, and it seems to me unlikely that he would just have tried to convert an existing Christian name into a surname as an act of will, which strictly speaking is a legal nonsense. I don't see why the thing couldn't be bottomed. How did ACD's children Adrian Conan Doyle (born 1910) and Jean Conan Doyle (born 1912) come by the name 'Conan' - as a given name, or because their father's surname was stated to the Registrar as 'Conan Doyle'? What did his passport in the 1920s and his death certificate in 1930 give as his surname? Xn4 03:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't thought to look at his children's names! (There are three other children to look at, two of which are from his first marriage.) We index (using category pipe sorting) Adrian under "Doyle", and Jean under "Conan Doyle". I take it we can be sure that "Conan Doyle" was actually their surname? What about their children? Oh, and I never realised his daughter was so distinguished! Carcharoth 09:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

"I take it we can be sure that "Conan Doyle" was actually their surname?" - Carcharoth

This is not quite the starting point I had in mind! Xn4 01:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I posed this question in a forum that is frequented by several people very knowledgable about ACD. I didn't ask for permission to quote the responses I received, but they can be found here and here. Deor 15:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Damn, I forgot that one has to be a member of that group to view the messages. Anyhow, the upshot was that Dame Jean considers her surname to be "Conan Doyle" and confirms that her father also considered it to be his surname. Deor 12:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. No wonder my application to join that All Hallows forum is still pending (I'd cancel it now if I could). "Dame Jane considers..."? Our article on her says she died in 1997, so that should be "considered", unless this is a rather special All Hallows type of forum... Did I just feel a shiver go down my spine? :-) Anyway, thanks for confirming the surname business. Did anyone come up with a firm date for the earliest point at which he was using it as a surname? Carcharoth 02:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to get embroiled in the debate over whether Conan was originally part of ACD's surname or not, but the way the article reads now it seems to imply that there is doubt about whether "Conan" (as a given name or a surname) was in honor of Michael Conan. I think that it is pretty well documented--for instance, in a letter written at age 12 he mentions changing the "A. Doyle" credited on a school playbill to "A. C. Doyle" to "gratify" Uncle Conan. Does a rewording seem in order? Edgbeatles (talk) 17:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Although late in the day, just a few quick points on the matter. Firstly if I remember correctly the DNB indexes people by their last name, so an entry under "Doyle" doesn't actually answer this question. Secondly as I said above name usage was far more flexible in ACD's day and he's far from the only person who generates ths kind of confusion - witness Andrew Bonar Law. Also not all double-barrelled names use hyphens - e.g. Iain Duncan Smith. Timrollpickering (talk) 07:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Even later in the day. One angle we don't seem to have considered is his wife. Was she referred to as "Lady Doyle" or "Lady Conan Doyle"? -- JackofOz (talk) 05:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

proposed new external link

I'd like to add a link like:

• Free to read on a cell phone - Conan Doyle works.

to the External Links:Works section. This links to a list of Conan Doyle works that you can download to read on a cell phone. I have read quite a few from this site and got a lot of value out being able to read the PD texts away from the PC.

The texts are Public Domain in the US, just like Project Gutenberg, they are packaged with the reader and available under a creative commons licence (share if (attribution, non-commercial, no derivative) ). The site is non-commercial without registration, subscription, or advertising. The texts as packaged together with the reader as a java program that runs on cell phones, this is a way for people to access the authors work that adds to the range in the existing external links (hopefully translating to more reading going on).

I checked WP:EL and the link seems appropriate:

• What should be linked: '...should link to a site hosting a copy of the work if none of the "Links normally to be avoided" criteria apply.'
• Links normally to be avoided: it seems only #8 might apply; 'Direct links to documents that require external applications (such as Flash or Java) to view the relevant content...'. The site lets you download java programs that only run on a J2ME environment, this means most/all current cell phones. So although they are limited to being read on a phone they do add an access method to all the others in the existing External Links, in the same way that LibriVox adds a format but requires an mp3 player.

Filomath 23:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Missing book

This doesn't seem to be in Doyle's bibliography - should it be? Neil ム 10:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

A few important Suggestions

This article has a lot of information all categorized under one section. I think there is both enough information, and enough extraneous materials and links that this could become a good article if not a featured article without adding much.

My little to-do list: -Expand intro slightly -Summarize life into more of a timeline so that the section can be divided into more detailed areas. -Categorize important aspects of his life:

*Writing
*Spiritualism
*Politics
*Medicine
*Knighthood

I plan on doing this myself when I have the time. Angrynight (talk) 13:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like a very good idea, though I'm unsure of the order. Now, did I miss it or (apart from the "Sir" in the opening) is there no mention of his knighthood at all? Seems like quite an oversight to me. -R. fiend (talk) 19:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Scottish

Seeing as his parents weren't Scottish and he spent much of his life elsewhere in Britain should he not just be described as a British author? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flimflamflum (talk • contribs) 23:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless Wikipedia has a policy that nationality is defined by place of birth, I agree. I see that the lead section has been changed, but the article is still in lots of "Scottish..." categories. Adding other categories in addition would be an option, but Doyle is in so many categories that would make the list overwhelming. Moving to "British..." categories seems to be the best option. EALacey (talk) 18:29, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I came here in search of the britich categories and was surprised to find only Scottish ones. --Timtak (talk) 03:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protection

Requested semi-protection of this article due to continued vandalism by user(s) with IP adresses. Michel Doortmont (talk) 20:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Opium use?

I've heard it claimed that he was a regular user of opium…anyone have any info on this? Historian932 (talk) 14:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright Expiry

The page for 2023 says the last copyright on any Sherlock Holmes work (presumably the 1927 “Casebook”) will have expired on 1 January 2023 in America under the “Sonny Bony Copyright Law Extension Act”. Presumably his works were out of copyright in Britain in 1981 as Britain has 70 formerly 50 years after the author’s death. Mention these years somewhere on the Doyle or Holmes page? & see above eg re Jean Conan Doyle Hugo999 (talk) 13:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

so Conan Doyle is a DETECTIVE right? I mean i got some information from other websites that says Conan Doyle was a detective, but in Wikipedia they says that Conan Doyle was a writer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.74.41 (talk) 23:59, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Treason?

The description of Roger Casement's action in joining the fight for an Irish republic as 'treason' is an opinion of the writer's. While the writer is entitled to any opinion, may I suggest that this be noted as opinion, not fact? Pageturners (talk) 10:10, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like he was convicted of it though. Treason is an inherently viewpoint-specific action, since actions described as treason by one person are likely someone else's "acts of freedom". However, the text could legitimately be reworded to: "He broke with both when Morel became one of the leaders of the pacifist movement during the First World War, and when Casement was convicted of treason against the UK during the Easter Rising". In fact, I think that's better, so I'll change it myself. Cheers, --PLUMBAGO 10:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Anglo-Scottish?

Surely saying that he was British is much easier than Anglo-Scottish?. I'm changing this nonsense. 86.154.74.50 (talk) 21:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Source?

His last words were directed toward his wife: "You are wonderful." where did this come from? :-\ hannah.JOY. (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

One place it's reported is on page 439 of the Stashower biography. I'll add that source to the article. Oh, and feel free to divide the "Life" section into subsections if you want (including "Death" as one of them). Deor (talk) 18:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

British.

He is best described as British i think, More balanced. 79.71.176.4 (talk) 20:49, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

The Hound of the Baskervilles

There is much wrong with this article, most of which has been covered above, but one major omission is that of "the Hound of the Baskervilles" which was published after Holmes' death, but before "The Empty House". Admittedly, it was set before the Reichenbach Falls, but "The Hound" is an extremely important novel.

210.10.173.201 03:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I was surprised to find no mention of the controversary over whether Doyle stole the Hound of the Baskervilles from Fletcher Robinson and later murdered him. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article567525.ece I saw a show saying they were going to exhume Robinson's body in 2006 and test to see if any traces of the poison laudanum. Does anyone know if this was ever done and what the results were? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.146.159 (talk) 00:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The following links address the outcome of the proposed exhumation: http://www.mxpublishing.co.uk/engine/shop/page/News and Bertram Fletcher Robinson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TedSherrell (talk • contribs) 08:22, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I to was surprised that the controversy is not mentioned in the article. I suspect that it once was.

Platonic?

"He married Jean Elizabeth Leckie in 1907 but had maintained a platonic relationship with her out of loyalty to his first wife. Jean died 27 June 1940.

Conan Doyle had five children, two with his first wife <...> and three with his second wife, (3) Denis Percy Stewart (17 March 1909 – 9 March 1955)<...>, (4) Adrian Malcolm (1910–1970) and (5) Jean Lena Annette (1912–1997)."

Um? Is the article using a different definition of "platonic relationship" or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.135.201.150 (talk) 19:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

It is perhaps not clear enough, but he maintained a platonic relationship with Jean for several years while still married to his first wife Louise. Doyle married Jean and the relationship became non-Platonic after Louise's death. Alboran (talk) 00:30, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps leave Plato out of it. Spanglej (talk) 01:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Headings

"Life" and "Death"? I believe this article could be broken up into better sections. We need to make some headings and sub headings.... any objections? If not, I'll do it. :D hannah.JOY. (talk) 23:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely - add headings. Spanglej (talk) 01:10, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

1908 Olympic Games in London

The finish line run of Dorando Pietri. Left: referee Jack Andrew; right: Dr. Michael Bulger.

During the 1908 Summer Olympics in London Lord Northcliffe commissioned Conan Doyle to cover the Marathon Race for the Daily Mail. There, Italian Dorando Pietri was disqualified because the referee and doctors had helped him across the line after he had collapsed. Doyle's emotional report on this drama (Daily Mail, 25 July 1908) finished with a plea that Pietri's performance not be forgotten, together with a letter starting a fund to assist Pietri. Doyle's report is probably the reason for the unfounded myth that he himself had helped Pietri across the line.

I added the above section to the article after first reading it in the German de:Arthur Conan Doyle. It has just been removed with the edit summary "minor incident not meriting such treatment". Rather than reverting I'll wait to see what other editors think. The incident is also described in the Italian wikipedia article. How about instead of deleting sourced content, improve it by rewriting it? For example reduce the treatment to just one sentence but add something about Doyle's sports interests? The cited source included other material on Doyle's connections with not only the 1908 Olympics but the preparations for Britain's entry in the 1912 Berlin Olympics. So, how about a section "Doyle and Sports? - 84user (talk) 16:45, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Ophthalmology

For anyone interested:

Edmund_Landolt#Curiosity - found this linking to Doyle when researching to write the Landolt article. Edmundmedmunn (talk) (also know as Essexesd) 21:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

His Biography

John Dickson Carr another excellent mystery writer wrote a great and very reliable biography of Conan Doyle. It should be mentioned in the article  Jon Ascton  (talk) 16:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that he ever used his middle name as some sort of quasi-last-name in life? If not, what's with the "Conan Doyle" business? Worldwalker (talk) 07:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

For previous discussion, see Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle/Archive 1#Conan Doyle or Doyle? Deor (talk) 12:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

using Psychic News as a source

I would not recommend using issue 4037 of Psychic News as a trusted and solid source to reference Doyle's promulgation of Jesus' eighth precept.

Spanglej (talk) 22:52, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The editor is clear that this view of CD was "according to some" and gives the "some" that this is according to. It is the source. The reader can determine for herself the trustworthiness of the information, but even if she disagrees with "Psychic News," she knows what the author of the article believes and why. (I had nothing to do with anything in this article.) NaySay (talk) 15:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I very much doubt that Psychic News counts as a reliable source. Span (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Arthur Conan Doyle bibliography

Hey all,

I created a Arthur Conan Doyle bibliography page. Please add to it.

TuckerResearch (talk) 03:43, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Jack the Ripper

It has been proven that Arthur was Jack the Ripper. Why is this not in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.11.216.79 (talk) 12:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

No, it hasn't "been proven" (and hasn't even been suggested by any reliable source), and that's why it's not in the article. Deor (talk) 18:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

I think our unsigned friend is just pulling your leg. NaySay (talk) 15:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Siblings: conflicting sources

There seems to be little consensus about how many children Mary Doyle had and where Conan Doyle was placed among his siblings. The Encyclopaedia Britannica says that Doyle was born the second of ten children. The return of Sherlock Holmes cites the third of ten. The Oxford Dictionary of Biography says he was the third of nine. (The site is accessible with a British library card). The introduction to Arthur Conan Doyle: A Life In Letters, Wordsworth Editions, 2007 pviii says only that Conan Doyle was one of ten. According to this source, three of the siblings died in childhood, which may help to account for the confusion, if for example, one child was stillborn. Conan Doyle talks of his childhood in the introduction to the collection of letters but doesn't speak of the number of siblings. I would say the Oxford Dictionary of Biography is the strongest source, the best researched and exhaustively detailed. I have taken out specific numbers from the article and added a note to the effect that the sources conflict. It seems likely there was and is genuine confusion, perhaps even to Conan Doyle himself. Span (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Spiritualism

The link about piltdown man (30 at the time of writing) links to a telegraph article from 2005. That article says nothing about Doyle and Piltodwn man, but does have a link to a 1997 article entitled "20 March 1997: The mysterious case of Conan Doyle and Piltdown Man", however that link doesn't work. Is there any evidence, or reason to mention that Doyle had a (suspected) role to play in the Piltdown man affair? If not, should we remove this reference (This also applies to the Piltdown man article). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.112.90 (talk) 23:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I have replaced the ref with BBC and Guardian articles. Span (talk) 19:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Influences/influenced

Can we get a consensus to just blank these two fields in the infobox and keep them blank? They are the bane of my existence, and I curse whoever thought of including them in Infobox Writer. On several other articles that I watch, editors have reached a consensus not to use them; I recommend that we do so here as well. Deor (talk) 00:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I fully agree. They are pointless and generally meaningless. Keep the fields blank. Span (talk) 00:34, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

It looks as if Template talk:Infobox writer has had nothing but support for the suggestion that these fields be dropped from the template, over the years. Perhaps it's worth raising it again there? --McGeddon (talk) 16:37, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Ibn-e-Safi as a Influenced?

I have provided reliable source http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/people/The-son-of-Ibne-Safi/iplarticleshow/8270314.cms but ThaddeusSholto doesn't seems to think so. thanks Whatasurprise (talk) 00:56, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I believe I made it clear in my edit that your article claims Ibn-e-Safi enjoyed reading Conan Doyle but nowhere does it claim he was influenced by Conan Doyle. I enjoy reading Conan Doyle, but I am not influenced by him. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 16:19, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Freemason?

Conan Doyle appears on the list of notable Freemasons, but the article doesn't mention anything about it. Do we have a source on this? --24.193.200.38 (talk) 00:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

The index of Stashower's Teller of Tales: The Life of Arthur Conan Doyle has no entry for "Freemasonry" or "Mason[ry]", and nothing relevant in the subentries under "Conan Doyle, Sir Arthur". Deor (talk) 00:45, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Burial

Noting the lack of citations about reburial, I visited Minstead churchyard recently and picked up the church's guidebook "The New Forest Church of All Saints Minstead - A Short Guide" copyright Minstead PCC 2009. I'm reluctant to make any changes to the article itself, but would like to challenge the statements about the burial initially being made outside the churchyard boundary. I think this is important, bearing in mind Conan Doyle's known affinity with Spritualism. So may I quite verbatim from three consecutive paragraphs on page7 of the 8-page leaflet so that others can decide what changes, if any, are appropriate to make? There seems to be no mention of any extension of the graveyard whatsoever.

"Probably the most famous grave lies beneath an oak tree behind the church on the southern border of the churchyard - that of the creator of Sherlock Holmes, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, whose family retreat was just outside the Minstead parish boundary."

"A devout Spiritualist, he was first buried in an upright position in the garden in his home at Crowborough in East Sussex in 1930. His second wife was buried alongside him 10 years later. Waning family fortunes led to the sale of the house, but the graves remained until 1955 when the family decided to fulfil Lady Jean's original wish that they be buried together at All Saints. So early one morning a double lead casket containing the remains of Sir Arthur and Lady Jean was delivered to the churchyard. A huge double grave had been dug all the previous day. After a short private ceremony the couple were laid - horizontally - to rest, and a public announcement was made about who had arrived. We know all this because the grave-diggers son (who was helping Dad with a spade at ten o'clock the night before) still worships here regularly."

"Conan Doyle's interests in spiritualism was a mild embarrassment to this Church. Ever prepared to compromise, the Church of England agreed he could come to the churchyard - but buried his remains by the far boundary. Perhaps the Almighty has stronger views? The oak tree over the grave still bears the scars of being struck by lightning twice - the last time in 1969."

In light of the above, my recommendation would be to remove reference in the Wiki article about him being buried outside the original churchyard boundary. I also felt the age of the large oak tree immediately adjacent and slightly overhanging his grave did not suggest there had been a boundary extension. If anyone wants to follow this up further, the email of the vicar, Dr James Bruce, given on the above-mentioned document is beneficeATnewforestparishes.com

I appreciate the content posted above is copyright, so perhaps it would also be appropriate for an editor to remove it once a decision on this matter is made. Parkywiki (talk) 10:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

A short pamphlet?

Under the subheading Political Campaigning, Doyle's 114 page The War in South Africa: Its Cause and Conduct is described as 'a short pamphlet.' I've read novellas shorter than that. Consequently, a more accurate wording for this sentence would be, "Following the Boer War in South Africa at the turn of the 20th century and the condemnation from around the world over the United Kingdom's conduct, Conan Doyle wrote a 114 page pamphlet titled The War in South Africa: Its Cause and Conduct, which justified the UK's role in the Boer War and was widely translated."

Vitki1963 (talk) 16:19, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

This website link] contains sufficient information to convince me that it is a book and not a pamphlet. Wikipedia's own entry states that a pamplet has "at least 5 but not more than 48 pages exclusive of the cover pages; a longer item is a book." The work is clearly a paperbound book. I've changed the article accordingly. Thanks for drawing my attention to this. - Fantr (talk) 20:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Conan Doyle's The Coming of the Fairies publication date appears to be wrong

It says publication was 1921, though I believe it is 1922 - Cited in numerous places as 1922 (e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/tuesdays-book-sir-arthur-conan-doyle-the-coming-of-the-fairies-1289054.html)

I can't make edit as page is semi-protected and I only just joined up today!! Thanks Pdhero37 (talk) 12:56, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The biographies Arthur Conan Doyle: A Life in Letters and Conan Doyle: Writing, Profession, and Practice both state 1922. It is also mentioned in the introduction of the Doyle's book itself. They are pretty strong sources. Span (talk) 14:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I've already updated the article to 1922: the British Library list 1922 as the publication date. - SchroCat (talk) 14:16, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Paget's 1904 drawing

Am I alone in looking at this drawing and seeing it as a drawing of Clive Merrison? Either it is amazing how much Clive resembles the drawing or it questions if this is really a 1904 drawing? I assume we all know that Clive Merrison has portrayed Holmes on radio more completely than any other actor? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeterM88 (talk • contribs) 07:14, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

So Paget not only predicted the future, but he could also see how someone would look on the radio. Most singularly unique! ;)

Surname

Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle/Archive 1#Doyle or Conan Doyle? (2006–2008)

Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle/Archive 1#Conan Doyle or Doyle? (2007–2009)

In effect I continue those two old threads. The rest of this note (including my signature and timestamp) is copied from Talk:Adrian Conan Doyle. -P64 (22:05)

---

begin copy

We call him Adrian Doyle here, Conan Doyle there, Doyle elsewhere, and instruct to sort by 'Conandoyle'. Libraries make Doyle the surname.[5]

In the father's biography we provide some discussion Arthur Conan Doyle#Name with the weight of evidence or practice heavily on the 'Doyle' side, and we use 'Doyle' in running prose. But again we instruct to sort by 'Conandoyle'. Libraries make Doyle the surname.[6]

The Sir ACD Literary Estate official website[ uses 'Conan Doyle' on the homepage, where it does not use 'Doyle' alone.[7] The NYT obituary headline writer uses 'Conan Doyle' but the text uses 'Lady Doyle'.[8]

--P64 (talk) 21:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

end copy

---

"The Sir ACD Literary Estate" isn't connected to the Doyle family heirs and shouldn't be taken as any definitive statement (and even if there were an official website, it could use both depending on the copywriter; not everyone gets concerned about the same matters). Without wanting to detour the ACD copyrights have been a source of dispute for decades ultimately stemming from different children of ACD and various sales & reclaims, and that site is based on an ownership claim stemming from a 1970s sale outside the family (and disputes the subsequent termination of transfer). Timrollpickering (talk) 23:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Just to ensure we are consistent, if nothing else, I've put the surname only mentions to Doyle, rather than Conan Doyle. It's a moot point which should be the preferred style, but we do need to stick to one over the other. Given what we say in the name section, Doyle seems to be as good a place as any. - SchroCat (talk) 07:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I made the same change, among other things, at Adrian Conan Doyle. Thus Arthur and Adrian would be listed side-by-side in categories English mystery writers and English short story writers --but Sir Arthur is exclusively Scottish. Anyway they both show up under D in most categories --as daughter Jean Conan Doyle does not, as we explain in her lead.

---

By the way, the US national library reports many "Sources" of surname usage for Arthur and his Lady.[9]

--P64 (talk) 20:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit request

Arthur Conan Doyle is distantly related to Bram Stoker the author

80.44.233.127 (talk) 17:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Also, you need a reliable source for this. Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but you may be able to find the source of that claim in the references for that article. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 19:55, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Nigel Bruce and Arthur Conan Doyle

Nigel Bruce seems to be doing a mimicry of Arthur Conan Doyle

• Arthur Conan Doyle (1927) (Fox newsreal interview) is available for free viewing and download at the Internet ArchiveXb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Knighthood

The opening line gives him the honour KGStJ. But this does not seem to be one of the classes of the Order of St John. Also, the later reference to the London Gazette mentions only that Doyle was appointed a Knight, as if a Knight Bachelor. Further post-nominal letters of the order are not used outside the organization itself and a Knight and Dame may not use the prefix Sir or Dame. Has anyone been able to confirm an appointment to the order of St John? -- Barliner  talk  20:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Literary career

I found the article sketchy on his literary career, for which he is clearly best-known, and have tried to address this by separating it out, in conformity with the rest of the article which deals with most of his career in parallel strands (I also created a medical strand). I may not have succeeded in doing justice to the fiction of this very prolific author. I have not attempted the same with his non-fiction, as significant titles are covered in other career strands. I've also revised some rather flowery phrasing to a more encyclopaedic style. I have used an old (1947) reference for certain factual information and if anyone wants to add a more recent one, go for it. I'm sure the article can be further improved and would be happy to discuss. Chrismorey ([[User talk:Chrismorey|talk]]) 01:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Good Article status

Why it was removed from good article section? And which sections should be improved?---ChamithN (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

@ChamithN: I'm not sure, but it was in 2006. The best thing to do is to request a GA review I suppose. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 16:35, 9 November 2014 (UTC).

SCOTTISH?

Why is Doyle so regularly described as Scottish? While he may have been born in Scotland, his ancestry (Through both father and mother) was Irish. The logic seems simple to me ....if he had been born in, say, Paris would he be described as French? ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.81.144 (talk) 00:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I would agree with this; especially as in the info box it says 'Ethnicity: Scottish', not nationality... It's a totally weird thing to want to write in the info box in the first place, I mean, Shakespeare's info box doesn't state his 'ethnicity'! But, hell if you were going to do it, it's pretty clear that 'ethnically' he is Irish, as both his mother and father are Irish Catholics! His nationality is British, as it states; Scotland doesn't have citizenship separate from the rest of the United Kingdom. He is, of course, a Scot, regardless of his ethnicity; born, raised and educated in Scotland--you just need to listen to a recording of his voice to hear his Edinburgh accent; but I think all that is implied, by saying in the introduction that he is Scottish, and of course by stating that he was born, raised and educated in Scotland... so I'm removing the weird Scottish ethnicity thing..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by InternationalistChap (talk • contribs) 23:05, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Doyle self-identified as Irish. In his own words: "I, an Irishman by extraction, was born in the Scottish capital" from his 1924 autobiography Memories and Adventures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.185.130 (talk) 03:16, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Racism And Racial Superiority

I have read several of Doyle's short stories and some of his short novels. It might come to the surprise (or even shock) for some people, but as a matter of fact, Doyle has shown vivid racial bias against Negros and Asian races. In his short novel "The Poison Belt", he refers to the Asian races as a whole as "the lower races" and in one of his Sherlock Holmes short stories, a British woman comments about marrying a black-man in these words "I married him despite his ethnicity ..." (the exact words might be slightly different but the context is the same). I should read his works in some detail and obtain necessary quotes and then add another section in his article, highlighting his racial bias.

His racial bias becomes all the more vivid when one reads H. G. Wells and other British writers of the same era and finds no trace of such ugly implications there.

Asheekay (talk) 16:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

This was the case with many other writers such as Dennis Wheatley, Charles Dickens and even Enid Blyton. Attitudes to race and class in Britain were entirely different in times gone by, even as late as the 1960s. If you want to add something about this you will, however, need to find what critics of his work have said about it - your own original research is of no value to the article. Richerman (talk) 18:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I think you are right. While reading Wikipedia's policy about original research, I came across these statements:

The phrase ″original research″ (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist. This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.

Thanks for referring to the link. Yes, I think I need to study the history and extent of racial bias expressed by English writers and then add the relevant section. Otherwise I would get the warning that I had posted misleading content which has been challenged and removed. Asheekay (talk)

Asheekay, I think that, in addition to potentially running afoul of WP:OR, you are also somewhat misinterpreting Conan Doyle's attitudes. In the Sherlock Holmes story "The Adventure of the Yellow Face", to which I presume you refer, he (or Holmes, at least) is quite sympathetic to the situation in which Effie Munro finds herself, and Effie's second husband turns out to be quite willing to accept the child that she has borne with her black husband. (I read the story as supporting racial tolerance, if anything.) There is also the matter of the George Edalji case, in which Conan Doyle fought, for no reason other than a sense of justice, to clear an "Asian" man that he believed had been incorrectly convicted of a crime. I haven't read The Poison Belt myself, but are you sure that ACD is there expressing his own opinion rather than putting the words into the mouth of a character or of a narrator whose judgment might be questionable? No doubt ACD had opinions that might not be considered "politically correct" by present-day standards (as did most of the "other British writers of the same era" whom you refer to; how many of them have you read in detail?), but I'd consider him an example of perhaps remarkable enlightenment with regard to racial matters for the time. 17:11, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Here are some of the excerpts from The Poison Belt. You can read them and determine if he (through the talk of a character in the novel, which is not rebuked or disagreed with, anywhere in the novel by any other character) is expressing racial superiority/inferiority or not. The two next paragraphs are copied from the novel.

There are laws at work in connection with the action and distribution of daturon which would have been of deep interest had the time at our disposal permitted us to study them. So far as I can trace them"—here he glanced over his telegrams—"the less developed races have been the first to respond to its influence. There are deplorable accounts from Africa, and the Australian aborigines appear to have been already exterminated. The Northern races have as yet shown greater resisting power than the Southern.

To take an obvious example, who would undertake to say that the mysterious and universal outbreak of illness, recorded in your columns this very morning as having broken out among the indigenous races of Sumatra, has no connection with some cosmic change to which they may respond more quickly than the more complex peoples of Europe?

I have not, and am not stating that ACD has expressed hatred or disgust for any race (which, btw he did, in one of Sherlock Holmes short stories about a Negro and another about some blowgun-wielding peoples of Southern Asia. I cannot precisely recall the titles of these short stories right now, however). What I am stating is that he has expressed racial bias and discrimination. If a person considers Black or Brown people mentally inferior to the Whites and expresses sympathy to them, he is of course not showing racial hatred, but he is definitely implying racial superiority/inferiority.

One does not have to express hatred against a race to be entitled racist. One can imply them to be somehow (especially wrt mental development) inferior than the other races and express sympathy with them. This definitely counts as racial bias, although not racial hatred. I hope you get my point.

Just because you have asked, I have read ACD and H. G. Wells in some detail (around 25 short stories of ACD and some 12 of Wells. 5 short novels by ACD and 4 by Wells) and several other English (English as a language, not as English people) writers, reading a collection of their short stories or a couple of novels at most. Several "Famous Five" novels of Enid Blyton (I cannot recall if there was any hint of racism in them, but it was a long time ago when I read them). Hardy Boys (forgot the writer name) series. A few by Charles Dickens (David Copperfield, Great Expectations and a couple others). King Solomon's Mines, Around The World In 80 Days, Journey To The Center Of The Earth (forgot the writer names). Well, it would make a long list if I start recalling and listing each of them. You get the idea.

There might be racial partiality in several English (people, not language) writers, but I have felt it coming most vividly in-your-face from the pen of ACD. Asheekay (talk) 12:46, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

In Victorian and Edwardian England it was not unusual for people to believe that the British were in some way superior to "foreigners" - that was the whole basis of the British Empire. Perhaps you should see Racism in the work of Charles Dickens and Enid Blyton#Racism, xenophobia and sexism. However, even if you do study the history and extent of racial bias expressed by English writers you still can't add your own unsupported opinions to the article. You need to find wp:reliable sources that discuss this point and compile a section using their views. Richerman (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Freemason

I note he appears in a Wikipedia list of Notable Freemasons, mentioned at foot of this page, but I see no reference to him being one in the body of the page. It would be more credible if published mention of him being a Mason could be given with citation and date. If he was a Mason, that would have showed a break with his childhood Catholicism.Cloptonson (talk) 07:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Clearly his interest in Spiritualism was a break with Catholicism and a simple google search on "Arthur Conan Doyle freemason" finds plenty of information such as this. Richerman (talk) 10:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I shall outline his times as a Freemason to make the article fit the category listing, cited to the source link you have used.Cloptonson (talk) 22:39, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Medical career

@Deor: Firstly, thanks for a clear and courteous explanation of your reason for reverting. My objective was to give a wp:rs view by modern experts from a different discipline which may have been overlooked by more knowledgeable main contributors -something I quite often try to do. In this case, it was half a sentence to show that his medical work could credibly be regarded as useful even today & no contemporary description could show this. I will further shorten the sentence as precise details are irrelevant and replace as per WP:BRD shortly. Feel free to reposition it or further discuss.
Regards JRPG (talk) 21:26, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Charles Altamont Doyle - English of Irish descent?

As Charles Altamont Doyle was born and raised in England, surely this would make him as English as Wikipedia claims his son to have been Scottish? Saying he was "born in England" is rather different to the phraseology used to describe his son, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the author of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Bizarre double standards here, and a possible anti-English bias? (86.170.94.12 (talk) 01:30, 5 July 2015 (UTC))

What? Wiki bias? Surely you jest! Seriously, that is a fair question, especially in light of his traditional Irish middle name, which normally English would avoid using. --71.47.172.126 (talk) 12:07, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

ACD regarded himself as an Anglo-Celt and was close to the Irish community in London. He had a great interest in the Irish Question and ran as a Liberal Unionist, against Home Rule, on two occasions. He was a friend to the powerful, prime minister Balfour, in particular. Balfour, a Tory, was working towards a gradual devolution, hence the very significant Wyndham Land Act. There should be a section on ADC and Ireland. I am putting together a long article/book. There is significant material. Moriarty has many ingredients but his appearance in certain years marks him as a Fenian. The Valley of Fear shows the different faces of the movement, as does His Last Bow. Fenianism was a serious global threat to the British Empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maelfreda (talk • contribs) 07:06, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Scottish or British

There seems to be a dispute occurring with Gareth Griffith-Jones vs Conormckee and 95.16.44.162 as to whether Doyle was Scottish or British. To avoid a perennial editing conflict on this I thought we should seek clarification here on the matter. Gareth Griffith-Jones also changed Conan Doyle's birthplace from "Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom" to "Edinburgh" which violates Template:Infobox person/doc, I have therefore reverted. It is not uncommon for notable individuals to be described as Scottish; that is a nationality after all. That's why we have a categorisation scheme Category:Scottish writers. British is not uncommon as well. What are other editors views on this matter? AusLondonder (talk) 17:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I thank AusLondonder for adding this thread. I should merely like to point out that I was restoring the status quo that existed up to yesterday afternoon. Cheers! Gareth Griffith-Jones, The Welsh Buzzard (Talk) 17:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

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Conan Doyle Estates Ltd vs Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate

Two different branches of Doyle decendants continue to claim rights to his legacy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate -- https://www.arthurconandoyle.com/copyrights.html -- recounts in some detail their perceived rights and the different branches of litigation.

Conan Doyle Estates Ltd -- https://conandoyleestate.com -- avoids mention of disputes, implies that they are the appropriate agent, and has some lucrative contracts on display.

Both are working to better establish themselves before all of the Doyle works are in the public domain. Doyle Estates Ltd lost a lawsuit with Leslie Klinger, and is presently is suing Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Literary Estate.

I raise this because multple mention of the Doyle estate, such as under Sherlock Holmes pastiche, is ambiguous.

GeeBee60 (talk) 16:41, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

What Does Samoa Have to Do with This?

"Robert Louis Stevenson was able, even in faraway Samoa, to recognise the strong similarity between Joseph Bell and Sherlock Holmes..."

Stevenson was *reading* a story containing a fictionalized version of his old friend and recognized it as such. Why is his *physical* distance from the old friend relevant? 24.239.177.111 (talk) 01:04, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

surname?

Steven Doyle, editor of The Baker Street Journal, wrote, "Conan was Arthur's middle name. Shortly after he graduated from high school he began using Conan as a sort of surname. But technically his last name is simply 'Doyle'."

The grave stone of his first wife reads "Louise Conan Doyle." That's more than "sort of." 108.20.114.62 (talk) 17:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

This article is tagged "DEFAULTSORT:Conan Doyle, Arthur", but here on the talk page the WikiProject Biography banner is tagged "listas=Doyle, Arthur Conan". Which is correct, please?--92.40.13.88 (talk) 17:48, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

See Arthur Conan Doyle#Name. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:02, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

So that would suggest that the DEFAULTSORT tag need to be changed then?--92.40.13.88 (talk) 22:08, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Done. --Hob Gadling (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Portrayals section

This page currently only seems to mention a few dramatized depictions of Doyle. This could be misleading since Doyle has actually been portrayed by many actors in various works. I think adding a 'Portrayals' section containing a list of notable portrayals of Doyle by actors would help clarify this, and it would be informative to readers interested in cultural depictions of Doyle. I have made a list in my sandbox. Please take a look. Miles26 (talk) 14:48, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I've added the section to the page. Miles26 (talk) 10:59, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Questionable reference to Houdini

In the section Freemasonry and Spiritualism, Conan Doyle is stated to have 'predicted' Harry Price would suffer 'the same fate as Houdini' if Price persisted in writing against spiritualism. I question this on chronological grounds and suggest some checking, as 1922 is given as the year Price began accusing Wiliam Hope the 'spirit photographer' of fraud but Houdini died not die until October 1926. Can someone put a date on when Doyle wrote the imprecatory comment about Price?Cloptonson (talk) 18:38, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

RfC about Arthur Conan Doyle's nationality

Should Arthur Conan Doyle be identified as Scottish or British? 22:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Survey

• Scottish - see my arguments below in the discussion section. Skyerise (talk) 22:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
• British. My comments are also below. Deor (talk) 23:00, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
• British in lead sentence This is a somewhat complicated question (Irish should probably be listed as an option as well), however British is always going to be broadly correct, and should be the identifier we use immediately. Further discussion can occur further into the article. Also, if anyone is broadly "British", it would be Doyle, an Irishman born in Scotland and educated in England. BSMRD (talk) 07:34, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
• British. (Summoned by bot) It encompasses "Scottish" and appears closest to the way he has been referred to over the years. Coretheapple (talk) 11:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
• British. I would think 'British' is most accurate as it encompasses Conan's complete identity and it's what he is known for, unlike other writers who were strongly connected to or identified with any of the home nations.Halbared (talk) 14:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

Why is Doyle listed as British? This is not a designation uniformly applied to other famous writers: Robert Louis Stevenson is listed as a "Scottish" author, as is Sir Walter Scott; Shakespeare is listed as English, as are any number of other authors born in England. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was born in Scotland and lived there until he was 9, and returned for his university education. So why is he listed as a "British" writer instead of Scottish? If it's for the fact that he lived part of his life in England, then the British label should be more widely applied. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sp33df0rc3 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree. But he actually identified as Irish. From his autobiography: "... thus it came about that I, an Irishman by extraction, was born in the Scottish capital." Memories and Adventures, Ch. I. I think the whole nationality question should be reopened. He was a Catholic, and at the time Catholics in Scotland primarily were of Irish descent and identified as Irish. Is there any evidence that he identified as British? He certainly did not identify as English, as one of the categories made out... Skyerise (talk) 18:18, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Also, both times he stood for Parliament, it was in Scottish constituencies. Skyerise (talk) 18:31, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Further, Google shows he is mostly identified as Scottish.

• "arthur conan doyle" brit or british -wikipedia: 410,000
• "arthur conan doyle" irish: 791,000
• "arthur conan doyle" scot or scottish: 959,000

Skyerise (talk) 22:27, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

MOS:CONTEXTBIO says that the lead should specify the "country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable". It specifically says that ethnicity "should generally not be in the lead", so whether or not Doyle considered himself ethnically Irish is immaterial. His life began in Scotland, but his literary work was produced in England, so that "British" seems the best designation. Deor (talk) 22:31, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you provide a source that he considered himself British? Because he acknowledged being born in Scotland, but as far as I know, never identified as British or English. Most sources, including E. Britannica, list him as Scottish. Skyerise (talk) 22:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I think that the place where "the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable" is evident. Deor (talk) 22:41, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I disagree. Regarding his notability as a writer, his literary career started when he was still in Edinburgh. His first published story was published in Chambers's Edinburgh Journal before he moved to England. So the thing for which he was notable for began while he was still in Scotland and he was first published in a Scottish journal. As well as standing for Parliament twice in Scottish constituencies. So we have four things supporting Scottish:

1. He was born there.
2. He studied and practiced medicine there.
3. He was involved in Scottish, not English, politics.
4. His first literary work was written and published there.

He's starting to sound pretty Scottish, don't you think? Skyerise (talk) 22:48, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to dispute about this; I've gone through similar discussions on other articles and I no longer have the stomach for such squabbles. You've said your piece, as have I, and we're clearly not going to establish a consensus between us. How about letting others weigh in? Deor (talk) 22:58, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

As you can see, I just started an RfC. Skyerise (talk) 22:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

The fact he was born and lived here until 9 shows me he is Scottish. If Shakespeare is going to be listed as English, ACD is Scottish. Faceitengland (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

How do third-party sources describe him? AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

This is the most important question. Skyerise's Google searches support "Scottish". That's useful to know. It would also be useful to review key RS about Doyle. The Arthur Conan Doyle website doesn't explicitly use "Scottish", "Irish" or "British", but does describe the family as being Irish (Catholic). Britannica calls him Scottish. A BBC History page doesn't call him any of these, but again calls the family Irish. The British Library doesn't use "Scottish", "Irish" or "British". The Poetry Foundation doesn't use any of these terms, but again calls the family Irish. PBS don't use any of the terms. Most sites note he was born in Scotland. I think the Google searches and Britannica thus favour Scottish, but possibly phrasing like "to an Irish family" is warranted in the lead too. Bondegezou (talk) 14:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. Before changing cricket categories, please consult the Cricket Project. In terms of categorisation of cricketers, there is no such thing as a British cricketer. Cricketers are categorised by the constituent country of the UK from which they are from. StickyWicket (talk) 20:54, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Claims about of faith of AICD

In article there is written, thet AICD was "avowedly not Christian", but in which part of life? How long before death? When he last say or wrote something like that? Personally, i think, that AICD was kind of sceptic, looking for what is true, unnecesary even in dirt. If AICD is a Christian, God know. VVerka5 (talk) 09:51, 12 May 2022 (UTC)