Talk:App Store (Apple)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Pure PR Page

This page seems to be pure Apple propaganda. There are important questions raise in Gizmodo and other tecc blogs about how Apple is managing third party software. The flavor of it being that software may not be like pop songs because of the long development cycle for quality applications. The invasion of low-quality free or "almost free" software could deter serious software development. It seemslike all rankings are based on instant downloads. This is an important aspect it seems that needs to be brought forward in this article. HuskyMoon (talk) 00:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Get a clue noob, or get off the Internet. I removed the non-sensical "Challenges" section of this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.212.176.10 (talk) 14:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

If you perform any form of editing, you have to sign your comments. From your IP address it seems very clear where thos comments come from. There are obvious challenges with the App Store, like any other channel. It does a dis-service to Apple to actually delete it from this page. 75.55.198.250 (talk) 04:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

These two comments are unsigned and seem to have edited the article in a very biased way and deleted sourced comments. I suggest signing your comments. HuskyMoon (talk) 04:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Associated Press

According to the Apple App Store in the United States of America, the Associated Press (AP) is not called "News", but "Mobile News Network". The column title is also has the word type, so before I changed the name, I wanted to make sure type did not over-rule the actual name of the AP's application for iPhone/iPod Touch. (Nicolaususry (talk) 04:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC))

Improve the stub

Since the App Store got a lot of software, let's try to list them all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.112.177 (talk) 20:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I Am Rich merge suggestion

I Am Rich is an interesting example of potential problems with the app store (users accidentally buying apps, or apps not doing what they should... or anything at all) and applications (eg art). Probably worth merging, and would help balance the PoV. samj (talk) 17:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

• I vote to merge it. The text is even very similar. The Asian Guy 12:05, 13 October 2008 (EST)
• I vote not to merge it. Jrdewintheamp88 (talk) 19:51, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
• I vote to merge it. I Am Rich wreaks of WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:RECENTISM. Also, Jrdewintheamp88 vote should be discounted per WP:JUSTAVOTE Misterdiscreet (talk) 14:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
• Merge, I think this should be a sub-topic on the App Store page. If that can grow to be long enough to warrant a full page, then we know what to do. Thomasmallen (talk) 17:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
• I vote to merge it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.148.9 (talk) 06:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

And it's been merged. Misterdiscreet (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm unmerging since the content has been removed and there was a previous AfD to keep. If we are going to have something merged with a previous AfD like that we shouldn't just merge and then remove it. JoshuaZ (talk) 23:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm remerging, per per the consensus here. The content shouldn't have been removed and the person who removed it should have been issued a warning against removal on his talk page. Misterdiscreet (talk) 15:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The AfD closed with keep - it could have closed with merge. This seems to me to be an attempt to sidestep the community. I think the original article should be reinstated, and so I have done so. Orpheus (talk) 10:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

And what about the consensus here? You say I'm trying to sidestep the consensus of the AfD and then sidestep the consensus here?

Besides, to quote User:Sgeureka, "WP:Articles for deletion should not be misused for merge/redirect proposals. ... Deletion means the edit histories are lost to non-admins, merging/redirection means anyone can access the edit histories".

For the purposes of merges, the consensus here takes precedent (never mind the fact that this consensus was established after the AfD).

Per this, I am reverting your edits to I Am Rich. Misterdiscreet (talk) 14:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

This is hardly a wide-ranging consensus. There's one editor who thinks it would be good to mention here to balance the PoV, your bluelink collection , an editor in favour of s(t)ubsuming the page and two votes (I assume you're happy to discount both of those if you're going to discount the "keep as article" one). Now we have two editors in favour of keeping as a separate article and the opportunity to debate it. I suggest listing this at WP:PM given that it's obviously a contested merge. Also, it's entirely proper to use AfD consensus to justify keeping an article rather than merging it. The editor on the talk page you linked makes an assertion based on a misunderstanding. AfD isn't *just* for deletion, it's to discuss the fate of an article whose relevance or value to the project is disputed. Plenty of AfDs end in "merge" - this one ended in "keep". You should respect that by at least looking for more consensus than "me too, me three, done" before you replace an article with a redirect. Orpheus (talk) 14:53, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It's actually four. PoV, myself, Thomasmallen, and 70.89.148.9. 4v2. So the consensus is still to merge. Is your case so weak that you have to pretend as if people who voted to merge don't exist simply to bolster your own position?

Also, this was listed at WP:PM. And then I merged it.

And still, you persist in ignoring the consensus here that was taken after the AfD. If those people that participated in the AfD want to chim in, they're free to do so. It is very inappropriate, however, for you to presume to speak on their behalf. Misterdiscreet (talk) 15:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Just out of interest, how is 70.89.148.9's "I vote to merge it" any more valid than Jrdewintheamp88's "I vote to not merge it" which you dismissed out of hand? I'm not ignoring consensus - I'm pointing out that you're justifying your actions based on a very, very thin consensus. Much more thin than the AfD, which should at least give you pause. If WP:PM didn't generate any further debate then perhaps we should list at WP:3 or some other kind of dispute resolution.

Incidentally, the editor you referred to as PoV is actually samj. Orpheus (talk) 16:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

70.89.148.9 and Jrdewintheamp88's votes are just as valid. Unless I'm miscounting, I think you included Jrdewintheamp88's vote in your total?

Also, I didn't list it in WP:PM - it was listed in there by another editor (well, it was tagged for proposed merge, so I assume that that lists it in WP:PM) and I followed up on that Misterdiscreet (talk) 17:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

No, I didn't include either vote. Either way, the number of editors who think the article should be merged and the number who think it should not be are about the same - but more importantly, both numbers are small. Listing at WP:PM is not automatic, it's a manual step taken to generate a wider debate about a proposed merge. It's not necessary to list there for non-contentious merges, but I think this one has become contentious. We need more community involvement to generate a lasting consensus. Orpheus (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to take this to DRV or something. ViperSnake151 18:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Relist

Relisted per the request at DRV, I just added merge tags to both articles to give proper notice. Keep this discussion open until at least 14:19, 28 September 2008 (five days from now). Then, if there is sufficient discussion (the above discussion can be included), post a notice at WP:AN and request an Admin close the discussion using top and bottom archival templates. Please continue the discussion below this message. Thanks. -- Suntag ☼ 14:19, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

All right, I'll kick this off. I think that having a large section on one application in what is a fairly short article gives unwarranted prominence to that application's effect on the app store itself. On the other hand, the application has relevance beyond just the app store - it's a good (albeit simplistic) example of a Veblen good, for instance. Those, to me, suggest that keeping this information as a separate article will enhance the encylopedia, which is what we're all here for. Orpheus (talk) 10:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. If you think the discussion of I Am Rich on this page gives it unwarranted prominence, shorten it. Maybe remove the what it says, or something. Besides, the author could probably legitimately claim a copyright violation, there.

And being a "good (albeit simplistic) example" of a Veblen good is completely irrelevant. Is it really so hard to link to I Am Rich instead of I Am Rich? And even if it were, just make I Am Rich, itself, a redirect to App Store#I Am Rich, and problem solved. Misterdiscreet (talk) 14:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You could use exactly the same argument to demerge and establish as a separate article. Remember that deletion policy says "If the page can be improved, this should be solved through regular editing, rather than deletion." We're supposed to be biased towards keeping articles unless there's a compelling reason. WikiProject Deletion, of which you are a member, states:

We are not here to go after huge swaths of badly written articles. The icon of scissors is to remind us to trim carefully. Whenever possible, FIX. Whenever possible, SOURCE. Whenever possible, FIND THE NOTABILITY. Before nominating for deletion it is a good idea to check for notability and to make some attempt at finding reliable sources. If there are some, then include them and try to improve the articles. If there is truly nothing there, then and only then go ahead with the nomination for deletion.

The article has plenty of sources. Its notability has been established (by AfD). It's a bit long for a subsection of App Store as they both stand, so what is the reason to not have a separate article? Orpheus (talk) 16:56, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not trying to delete - I'm trying to merge. As for "the reason to not have a separate article" - see my earlier post (you know - the one that you've ignored, since you failed to address any of the points mentioned in it) Misterdiscreet (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, it's not delete in the pure technical sense. I'm using the word as a shortcut for "Remove the separate article status of I Am Rich". It's effectively a delete from the perspective of a casual reader. Yes, I'm aware of the visible history and all that - but the end result is that 99% of Wikipedia's readers won't know the difference between this and deletion.

I was attempting to address your point - which one did I miss? Orpheus (talk) 17:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If the article was deleted, then it's also quite likely there wouldn't be any discussion of it in App Store, either. That's the difference between deletion and merging. When you merge, the material still exists, albeit in another article.

The point I feel you failed to address was where I proposed the article be shortened. I'm also not sure if you addressed my App Store#I Am Rich vs. I Am Rich point? Misterdiscreet (talk) 17:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Then if the material still exists, why is it necessary to put it into this article and remove it from the original article? The I Am Rich app relates to more than just the iPhone Application Store. Making it a subsection of this article implies that it is purely related to the App Store, which isn't true. From the deletion debate: "This one relates to a number of other topics (The App Store, online scams, iPhone, Apple, etc.) without falling completely within them." I don't think that making the section shorter is a solution, either - we're supposed to assume that articles are going to be expanded, and this one has enough sources that it's plausible it will be. Taking out the transcript to make it artificially shorter doesn't seem like a positive contribution to the encyclopedia. Regarding ease of linking, that's what I meant when I said you could turn it around - "Is it really so hard to link to I Am Rich instead of I Am Rich?". It's a non-argument either way. Orpheus (talk) 18:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Relating to other topics has no bearing on whether or not a merger ought to take place. Take a look at Holy Grail#Modern retellings. Hit Ctrl + F5 and do a search for Stargate. You'll see it says as the "Sangreal". Your suggestion is basically akin to suggesting that the now-redirected Sangreal article ought not be redirected and instead ought to be it's own article on the basis it's linked to from articles that wouldn't otherwise link to Ancient technology in Stargate. It's akin to suggesting that WP:NOT#DICT be spun out into it's own article and that, in general, all subsections (as denoted by the Number sign) that are being linked to ought to be spun out. And that's absurd.

You say my I Am Rich vs. App Store#I Am Rich is a non-argument. Wrong. You're suggesting App Store#I Am Rich is a wholly inferior link simply because it has a pound sign in it. My question is.. why?

Remember, in my proposal, I Am Rich and App Store#I Am Rich would both take you to the same thing. In your proposal, they wouldn't. In fact, in your proposal, the latter wouldn't even exist.

Also, as I said, I think there's a very valid reason to take out the transcript - copyright. Wikipedia does not own the copyright to the message that I Am Rich displayed Misterdiscreet (talk) 18:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair use buddy. ViperSnake151 19:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Apparently there's a distinct lack of interest in this - any objections to closing it off? Orpheus (talk) 09:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Given the elapsed time, I'm going to assume not, so I'll be bold and take off the merge tags. Orpheus (talk) 02:00, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Given that there wasn't any consensus either way, I don't believe I would be overstepping my bounds to merge them, again. In the interests of being civil, I won't, but please do keep that in mind. Misterdiscreet (talk) 17:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Have a look through Wikipedia:What is consensus? at some stage. It would be a bit on the nose to repeat a controversial action because of a perceived lack of consensus either way. Orpheus (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Applications Availability Worldwide

There should be some note about the availability of apps in the worldwide stores, eg, iSSH is avail in US, Switzerland but not in Singapore. Any reason why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.172.36.226 (talk) 08:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Similar Services

There should be some mention of similar services such as Google's Android Market. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.66.221 (talk) 06:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

no there shouldn't. This isn't a shopping site. Unless there is a direct tie between the products they don't belong in this article and need to be removed.--221.138.100.168 (talk) 13:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Expand Tag

I have added the Expand tag:

To this article. There is some very incorrect and badly written information. Stealth (talk)

Baby Shaker

Out of curiosity, if anyone got baby shaker before it was removed, would they be allowed to share it with others? I'm not trying to obtain it because I don't approve of baby shaking (at least in Halo, you're killing people who can defend themselves) and I don't think I would find someone who has it anyways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.222.73 (talk) 22:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope, apps like Baby Shaker are still protected just like other apps. The difference is you just can't buy it from the store anymore. Brianreading (talk) 03:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Any App can be cracked and shared with the jailbroken community. Dmarquard (talk) 01:59, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Generic term?

Does anyone have sources indicating that "App Store" is also being used as a generic term, referring to Android Market, Nokia's Ovi, Palm's app store (whatever it's called) etc? It seems sensible to me, I'm definitely already using the term that way, but are there any more notable sources. ;) If so maybe there should be some mention of it in the article (cf. recently reverted edits). --Anderssl (talk) 06:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've never seen any reliable source that has used it as a true generic term. I think that even if a journalist were to use something like "Palm's App Store", it would simply be another syntax (albeit a somewhat unclear one) for "Palm's version of the App Store", rather than a catch-all term for any similar service. I think if this were to be worded as something like "App Stores are becoming very successful.", then this could seen as a true generic term. Brian Reading (talk) 08:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. If people and journalist's are using terms like "Palm's app store" or "Google's app store" (especially if uncapped) that is definitely a use of the phrase as generic term. Doing some googling is quite revealing here - under the "related searches" heading you get suggestions like "blackberry app store", "palm app store" etc, indicating that a lot of people use the term "app store" to refer to the various brand stores. (It's pretty obvious honestly, who goes around remembering what all these stores are officially named? And who cares?)

In the media: Reuters: ...that's true of the crop of virtual mobile retailers called "app stores." (From a story called "In app store war, BlackBerry, Google hold own". NY Times' blog, under the heading "Nokia's App Store": "Those who can use the Ovi store will find it similar to other app stores" (also referring to the store as "app shop" and "the Ovi app-store"). Wired, in the story "BlackBerry App Store Gets a Name": "The company[RIM] has said earlier it plans to launch its app store in March." Gizmodo has a story referring to Android Market as "Google's App Store" in the headline. See also this blog, proposing a "Flasn App Store": "There are lot of app stores germinating lately...".

These are just a handful of examples. Seems to me there definitely should be some mention about the use of app store as generic term in the article, as an encyclopedia should reflect the distinction between terms as used in language and trademarked brands... --Anderssl (talk) 17:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that an encyclopedia should certainly make a distinction between terms used in language (generally speaking of course) and trademarked brands, however I still disagree with your definition of a generic term, as reasoned above. As far as who goes around remembering these names, I certainly do. It hasn't been a real difficulty for me.

You have shown some examples of the generic term in reliable sources, and even in my sense of it. I will concede that there is some usage out there, but are there any sources that claim this specifically? It would make for a stronger argument to phrase it well in the article. For example, we could say "The term "app store" has also become a generic term to refer to any similar service for mobile devices." versus something like "The term "app store" has been used by Sinead Carew of Reuters and Roy Furchgott of the The New York Times as a generic term to refer to any similar service for mobile devices." The reasoning for the difference in wording is to avoid using weasel words. We also could not use the former sentence, because that would constitute as original research in that we would be synthesizing published material to advance a position. Brian Reading (talk) 19:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I see your point, but still don't quite agree. The problem with weasel words is when you use them in stead of giving sources for a claim. So I think we can say "Some people use the term as a generic term to refer to any similar service for mobile devices" followed by a few refs to some of the examples I listed below. The point is that this is a current phenomenon which is obviously real (as shown by my examples), but too recent to have entered the dictionary. Some of the advantage of Wikipedia is that we don't have to wait for the slow editorial processes of traditional reference works to recognize a phenomenon - if we have to wait for the term to enter Webster's dictionary before we can write about it, some of the purpose of Wikipedia seems to be lost, in my mind. --Anderssl (talk) 20:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

By the way, the following page is relevant: List of generic and genericized trademarks - to see how similar issues have been handled in other articles. The article Band-Aid, for instance, only cites one anecdotal use of the term to support the claim of generic use; Walkman gives no sources. --Anderssl (talk) 20:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've been bold and added this to the lead. --Anderssl (talk) 18:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

That's certainly not being bold, it's being impatient. We were in the middle of a discussion, and you just went on with it. Firstly, did you really read Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words? I mean, the epitome and first example used to illustrate weasel words is the "Some say..." format. Did you not read the portion that mentions "It is better to put a name and a face on an opinion than to assign an opinion to an anonymous source."? How about the part where it says that "Sentences like Some people think... lead to arguments about how many people actually think that." So no, giving sources is an improvement over NOT having sources, but it is certainly not a substitute for clarity.

Secondly, as I noted before, you ARE synthesizing material. In order for that to not be true, you'd need a source saying that "App Store" has become a generic term. What you've done is take several sources, analyzed the text of each, found similarities through comparison, and drew your own conclusion. That's a stark contrast. This is part of original research, and it's not allowed here.

Your point claiming that it is a fact, but it is too new to have been published is only hurting your argument, not helping it. "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true." That sentence comes from Wikipedia:Verifiability, and it's one of the core content policies of Wikipedia. If you don't follow this, you are participating in another aspect of original research. As per Wikipedia:No original research: "Even with well-sourced material, however, if you use it out of context or to advance a position that is not directly and explicitly supported by the source used, you as an editor are engaging in original research. [...] If you are able to discover something new, Wikipedia is not the place to première such a discovery. Once your discovery has been presented in a reliable source, it may be referenced."

Lastly, you've claimed that examples of similarly bad practices on Wikipedia is not relevant. Wikipedia isn't perfect, and things like that can easily slip through the cracks. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be cited properly though. Basically, Wikipedia is a constant work in progress. Brian Reading (talk) 19:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, time to calm down a little. I'm sorry if you find my edit impatient, you are free to revert it if you don't think it's appropriate.

Yes, I have read WP:WEASEL. And in all due respect, I think you are misreading it a little. Nowhere in that page does it say that the grammatical construction "Some say..." is always a weasel word that should be avoided - rather, it is just an example of something that can work as a weasel word. Read the very first sentence on the page: "Weasel words are words or phrases that seemingly support statements without attributing opinions to verifiable sources." That is obviously not what is happening here, I think we both agree that verifiable sources have been given, which answer the questions posed on the weasel page - such as "Who says that? When did they say it?" etc. As for the question of "how many says that", my edit does provide an answer - at least 3 writers in mainstream global media outlets - and I'm not sure why we would need to search for a more specific number than that?

The core of the disagreement, rather, seems to be the question of synthesis. In my opinion you are, again, streching the concept. I am not synthesizing, I am Compiling facts and information. The sentence I have added to the article is a fact - yes, some (notable) sources are using the term that way - and the references added to the end of the sentence document that fact directly. There is no analysis involved, just simple and direct deduction. I do accept your point that the argument would be stronger if, say, the term was included in a traditional dictionary, but as I said above I don't think that is a necessary requirement for including mention of this use of the term here.

"Lastly, you've claimed that examples of similarly bad practices on Wikipedia is not relevant." No I have not. I have claimed the opposite - that they are relevant - but I haven't drawn the conclusions that you seem to be crediting me with. I'm not saying that because Walkman or Q-tips doesn't give any sources, sources aren't necessary. However I don't think it is necessary to find a dictionary entry or an article that discusses the use of one specific brand name as generic term, in order to document that such use is taking place - and I am providing these examples to show that I'm probably not alone in thinking so. Anyway, this is a fair and square disagreement, so I think it's time to ask for a third opinion. --Anderssl (talk) 20:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I see you beat me to it. :) Adding 3O template. --Anderssl (talk) 20:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that. As far as your last point, it was a typo by me. Please remove the "not" in the first sentence, to make more sense of it. Hopefully someone can remedy this situation for us. I'd also like to point out that I have not reverted your edit specifically to show that I'm assuming good faith, and that I'm being open-minded to your argument. Brian Reading (talk) 22:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Third opinion

OK, somebody asked on Wikipedia:Third opinion, so here I am. I normally avoid editing articles for which I'm offering a third opinion in a dispute, but the solution seemed so obvious here that I couldn't resist.

I have rephrased the contentious sentence to remove the weasel word and state the simple fact that the term "app store" has appeared as a generic term. The reference supporting that statement appear to be adequate. I am not convinced that the sources suggest the term has become a generic term in a universal sense; they only indicate that the term has been used as a generic term, so that's all we should say about it. That seems to be a reasonable compromise between claiming it is now a generic term, and deleting the sentence altogether. That's my opinion. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You are right, that WAS kind of obvious. :) This is basically what I meant to say all along (I also do not mean that we should state that the term has universally become a generic term). Thanks for the help! --Anderssl (talk) 02:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Brian Reading (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Comparison table

I like this table that someone put in, with info to compare the different app stores! I took the liberty of adding some more info. But I also think a couple of the columns could be cut. The 'status' one - aren't they pretty much all 'Live' now? And the developer's fees, and links to the developer web sites - that sounds a little like information for specially interested (like me, incidentally) - maybe not so interesting for the general public (could be put in the articles for the different stores though, so it's available for those who are specially interested). Objections? --Anderssl (talk) 22:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Great table, but it should be in a different article. Please comment below in the discussion for this. Thanks! Brian Reading (talk) 17:48, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of app stores split proposal

I propose that this section be split into a new article entitled Comparison of digital distribution platforms for mobile devices. My main reasoning for this is that it does not fit into the topic of this article. Brian Reading (talk) 17:47, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, except for the article name... I tried to google "digital distribution platforms for mobile devices" to see if it was used anywhere, and I can't find any examples. Whereas the term "app store" seems to have fairly widespread use. We should aim to use the same terms which are used elsewhere. --Anderssl (talk) 18:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Comparison articles (which should still be called "List of…", per WP:LISTNAME) compare different options. App stores are determined by platform, so I would reccomend adding it to List of smartphones if it hadn't been deleted. But get it out of this article, sure. HereToHelp ^{(talk to me)} 03:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

While someone viewing the App Store article might be interested in this information, it isn't exclusively about the Apple App Store; the Apple store is only one store on the list. I support moving it to its own article, and perhaps link to it in the "See Also" section. -- Atama^chat 17:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The term "app store" used in that generic way (as Anderssl suggests) is not wide-spread, and would only serve to cause confusion. A digital distribution platform and a mobile device are two concepts that are fairly well detailed on Wikipedia. I do think it's important to follow the naming conventions, and thus I will modify my proposal to be List of digital distribution platforms for mobile devices. Brian Reading (talk) 18:54, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, there is no Wikipedia article called Digital distribution platform - which makes it hard to discuss this, since we haven't really clarified what exactly a ddp is. My point is that these 'app stores' are something more than technical platforms, they are also (arguably) online stores, entertainment services, publishers etc. And those aspects may be more important in the end than the technical platforms they are built on, much like the website Wikipedia is arguably more important than the software MediaWiki. But go ahead, I don't want to be a hairsplitter, we can come up with a better name later. --Anderssl (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Both Digital distribution and Template:Digital distribution platforms are here on Wikipedia. Another related article is Content delivery network. I guess I will just go ahead and create it as you suggested. We can discuss the name there as needed. Thanks for all of your input. Brian Reading (talk) 01:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Why? What is there to compare? These are not in competition. Unless there are device that can access and use multiple stores, comparisons are meaningless. They're not in competition with each other.--221.138.100.168 (talk) 11:17, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Apps

I have created a new artice named Apps, in reference to mobile phone applications. Please note that it is a neutral article and so does not refer iPhone as if it owns the term. Please do not change the name as per 'Special' naming conventions. I am informing you all of this because it is a stub, so please feel free to improve the article - which can be found here. Thanks --Graham •talk 09:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing neutral about that. You're trying to create pov that the term refers to something which it does not. App and apps have been used for years as shorthand for application and applications. A single article from the BBC doesn't change that. Nothing can.--221.138.100.168 (talk) 13:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Not at all -- Google had a "Gmail App" in 2006. See Gmail App For Your Mobile Device. The current dust-up between Apple and Google over the "App Store" trademark isn't going to go well for Apple, especially in light of Google's prior use of the term "App". My argument is POV, that article ain't. Tall Girl (talk) 20:17, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

CNBC's "Planet of the Apps" documentary

CNBC's "Planet of the Apps" documentary (see http://www.cnbc.com/id/34316207 ) covers some interesting aspects of the App Store. - Bevo (talk) 15:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Apps and Downloads

Steve Jobs said today on the Event of Apple, that there are 185,000 Apps in the App Store with over 4 billion Downloads.

--Maurice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.129.201.200 (talk) 17:45, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Have you got a source? `-- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, for example this site:

http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/04/08/apple-iphone-os-4-gets-official-multitasking-included-will-be-out-in-the-summer/

--Maurice

Thanks :). I've updated the page. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

No Problem. ;-)

--Maurice —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.129.200.18 (talk) 21:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Nokia and the Ovi Store

Although Ovi Store was released after the App Store, Nokia S40 and S60 phones had a "Download!" application, which predates the App Store and indeed the iPhone.

Adobe Flash Ban and other bans?

So far I've heard that apps made with the Adobe Flash cross-compiler or Monotouch are prohibited, as well as apps with the word "Android" in their description. Should these also be mentioned in the article? 174.55.189.19 (talk) 09:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

App Removal/Bans

There needs to be a section for apps that have been notably removed, including...

The infamous "Baby Shaker" and "I Am Rich" Pornographic apps Wi-fi finders "Manhattan Declaration", a petition against same-sex marriage (was previously approved and then removed)

TheListUpdater (talk) 02:08, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

App Store release on Mac?

I believe it would be a good time to mention the release of the App Store on the Mac. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.98.245 (talk) 16:02, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Never mind. I saw the provided link. I talked too soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.98.245 (talk) 16:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Rename: App Store (iOS)

Shouldn't this be renamed App Store (iOS), as it's too generic a term for just one companies product? Hence Microsoft in court against Apple's pending trade mark application, and thus likelihood in the near future other providers will label their own "App Stores" themselves, Jimthing (talk) 07:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely. App store is a generic term. This wider categorization is totally inappropriate.

A new "app store" article needs to be written generally and maybe I will do it. By the way, I am an Apple fan and shareholder. That does not mean I accept their hegemonic false authority over the App Store name. Similarly, the term 'Personal Computer' does not redirect to the Apple Inc article. Apple may have originated the term; what is relevant is, it is a term of generic usage BECAUSE I AND OTHERS USE IT GENERICALLY. This concludes the irrefutable evidence documenting the FACT that 'app store' has become a generic term that merits a generic article. - Jangles1 (talk) 16:48, 22 March 2011

Not likely. Wikipedia articles generally use the most common name in determining article titles. Also, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We do not know what other companies will call their products in the future. We can only name the articles from what we know now.--Jojhutton (talk) 23:47, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Other companies are using the name App Store right now, so no crystal ball is necessary. Hanxu9 (talk) 16:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

It should be interesting to see how this issue gets resolved, since it's a Google vs. Apple one, and Wikipedia is full of fanboys for each. (Apple is currently suing Amazon over its Appstore for Android.) It's kind of like the immovable object meeting the irresistible force. :D Hanxu9 (talk) 16:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I think this should be moved, in particular to prevent confusion with the Mac App Store, but also because "App Store" seems to be used in a generic manner in the non-Apple world: "Amazon Appstore" "LG App Store", "Shopify App Store" "M1 App Store", Aadhar App Store, Mura CMS App Store, CrackBerry AppStore, "partnerpedia App Store", "Liquidware App Store", Snibbe App Store, Wip App Store, Wpexplorer App Store, GreatCall AppStore and possibly others... The media also seems to use "App Store" in a manner more or less generic: "Army App Store", "Kinect App Store", "Android App Store" "Mercedes App Store", "Bank App Store", "Meego App Store", "Windows 8 App Store" --SF007 (talk) 17:45, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Approval of apps

For the section of approval of applications, there is many sections of it separated so I thought of putting all of it in a separate page.

Ebe123 (talk) 22:34, 28 January 2011 (UTC) Thank You for reading this. Please reply.

Approval of apps

I just moved it to Approval of apps (iOS apps) Ebe123 (talk) 22:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Favouring apple

This entire page should not be geared towards Apple in the way that it is. Apple do NOT own the trademark to the word 'app store', therefore the page should not be phrased in a way that solely promotes Apple. Why isn't the page written about Windows Phone app store? 81.138.1.249 (talk) 15:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Since Wikipedia titles are case-sensitive, I'd say it's reasonable for "App Store" to refer to Apple's App store, but I agree there is the problem that "App store" redirects here. Since "App store" is the generic term to refer to these online stores, and Wikipedia policy favours simple names, I propose that "App store" instead redirect to List of digital distribution platforms for mobile devices (I mean, come on now - that name is neither the simplest, nor is it what anyone refers to).

Also given the legal dispute over whether this should be a trademarked name that Apple own the rights to, it seems point of view for Wikipedia to be redirecting the generic term "App store" to Apple. Mdwh (talk) 19:00, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, though not with redirecting it to a list of 'app stores' but instead to an article about the generic term 'app store' (which has yet to be written). 77.249.20.211 (talk) 14:26, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Why is there no mention of nor links to the entries for package management system or software repository? 98.111.242.185 (talk) 10:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Censorship?

Our article iPad links to an anchor "#censorship" on this article, but this subsection does not exist. I distinctly remember that there was a discussion about "censorship", in particular in relation to a German magazine (perhaps Der Spiegel?) which had to cover up some breasts to be allowed to sell its app in the App Store. Austrian (talk) 20:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

File:App Store Aus.PNG Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:App Store Aus.PNG, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 16 November 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 21:32, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

GPL Controversy

While the GPL notice has been smoother back in it's worth noting that it's possible to release code otherwise released as GPL for both stores. You can't distribute GPL software through either of the stores but this doesn't apply if you're the copyright holder of the work itself. The GPL allows (mainly because it's your inalienable right under copyright law) to have multiple licenses. This means you can release your binary in the store under the Apple License and your source code under the GPL and you'd be perfectly able to release the app but nobody else would (as they'd have to work with GPL code, which doesn't allow it). Others would be able to compile and release your app, but not through the store. The current mention is somewhat vague and while not as blatantly incorrect as the one in the Mac App Store, is still misleading. eduo (talk) 16:29, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistent?

The small screen on the right claims "725,700+ apps (as of February 2012)" and the table in 3.2 says "Date: February 28, 2012; Availanle apps: 500,000+". Yeah, 725k is more than 500, but should these be consistent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.232.61.60 (talk) 05:17, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Minimum iOS version for new / updated apps raised from 3.0 to 4.3

The article needs to mention that as of late September 2012 and the release of iOS 6, the minimum iOS version for new and updated apps has raised from 3.0 to 4.3. This is a problem for people who have newly acquired an old ARMv6 device - iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPod touch (1st generation) or iPod touch (2nd generation), unless they jailbreak their device and install illegal pirated copies of older versions of the same apps that have since dropped compatibility with their device. --81.129.18.164 (talk) 20:56, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Package management system / Packaging format

If you have a look at Package management system or at Template:Package_management_systems questions about the technical background pop up. How is the Packaging format defined? What security measures does the Package management system implement? E.g. Are the packages signed? I think some technical specifications would be much more interesting and more suitable to the Wikipedia than the sales numbers. Semsi Paco Virchow (talk) 14:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Semsi Paco Virchow (talk) 14:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Too many screenshots

As of this writing, there is three screenshots of the App Store on the page. One is at the top that shows the App Store on the 5c, while there are two at the bottom showing the App Store on the iPod touch and iPad. Three screenshots of the same subject matter is just unnecessary. While the iPad screenshot may be relevant, the iPod touch screenshot is definitely unneeded and should be removed. StewdioMACK (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

add a Criticism section?

A Criticism section is a wider section, where the "Controversial apps" and "Implementation and limitations in countries" can be subsections.

If there are another criticism, like the #GPL Controversy, and they are well founded, we can add also at criticism section. Some other examples (please check if there are a reliable source about): "the blocking of bitcoin wallet apps" and blocking of Tawkon, as commented here.

--Krauss (talk) 23:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 16 December 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: withdrawn per the discussion below: clearly no general consensus to move, so I will redirect App Store to App store, which has a hatnote for this article already. Dekimasuよ! 05:12, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

---

App Store (iOS) → App Store – The plain title App Store redirects to the title with a disambiguator. Under the less controversial parts of WP:PLURALPT, as the primary topic for the capitalized title this article should be moved to App Store with a hatnote in place for App store. Alternatively, if this article is not the primary topic of "App Store," App Store should be redirected to App store. Dekimasuよ! 18:48, 16 December 2014 (UTC) *Neutral per WP:DIFFCAPS since I have previously supported that guideline, but recent discussions have convinced me otherwise since it seems to be more of a essay than a policy. Steel1943 (talk) 00:12, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose due to not standing out alone with different capitalization since several different companies have their version of an "App Store". Steel1943 (talk) 18:48, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

• Also, retarget App Store to App store per Egsan Bacon. Steel1943 (talk) 18:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose "App Store" can mean the officially supported app store for your device, so it is better to point to the generic app store. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:50, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
• Support. Clear primary topic. -- Calidum 00:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
• Support - per Calidum. CookieMonster755 (talk) 04:05, 19 December 2014 (UTC)CookieMonster755
• Oppose, but I would support the second proposal of making App Store a redirect to App store. The general concept is more likely to be searched for than a specific company's version of the concept. Given Apple's attempt to sue Amazon for calling their app store "Appstore", it would seem even Apple doesn't think the formatting is enough to distinguish the Apple "App Store" from the generic "App store". Egsan Bacon (talk) 18:33, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

17+ rating

Regarding the factual accuracy of this edit: Was the actual rating removed from the store, or only the warning message ("Whenever an app of this rating is requested for download, a message will appear")? I don't remember ever getting the warning message, but I haven't looked at any 17+ apps in the last couple months or so. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 18:38, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

error

Clash of Clans is not a app you need to pay for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:33DC:510:C417:E0CE:2ECD:B635 (talk) 00:30, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on App Store (iOS). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130707054522/http://www.businessweek.com:80/news/2011-06-22/apple-bid-to-bar-amazon-appstore-will-likely-be-denied.html to http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-22/apple-bid-to-bar-amazon-appstore-will-likely-be-denied.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110218011802/http://www.theglobeandmail.com:80/news/technology/tech-news/apple-rolls-out-subscription-service/article1907736/ to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/apple-rolls-out-subscription-service/article1907736/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120916202720/http://images.apple.com/iphone/from-the-app-store/images/fromtheappstore_hero.png to http://images.apple.com/iphone/from-the-app-store/images/fromtheappstore_hero.png
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100903202039/http://www.apple.com:80/apple-events/september-2010/ to http://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2010/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120421020957/http://www.apple.com/apple-events/october-2010/ to http://www.apple.com/apple-events/october-2010/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110923184928/http://www.apple.com:80/apple-events/wwdc-2011/ to http://www.apple.com/apple-events/wwdc-2011/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120421003549/http://www.apple.com/apple-events/october-2011/ to http://www.apple.com/apple-events/october-2011/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140102195850/http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/081913-jekyll-test-attack-sneaks-through-272947.html to http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/081913-jekyll-test-attack-sneaks-through-272947.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130313230415/http://akufu.com:80/hiddenapps-iads-opt-out-jailbreak/ to http://akufu.com/hiddenapps-iads-opt-out-jailbreak/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:57, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2017

76.91.139.78 (talk) 04:34, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: The request is empty. Please describe the changes in a "Change X to Y" format. Gulumeemee (talk) 08:23, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

"The" App Store

Hi to both @KamranMackey: and @Codename Lisa: Let's have a proper discussion here. I was about to change all mentions of "the" App Store into just App Store following the discussion on Codename Lisa's talk page, but when I searched my web browser for "the App Store", I discovered that a large number of sources also use "the App Store". I apologize to Lisa that I am starting this discussion again, but are you sure about what you wrote on your talk page? Both secondary sources and Apple's press releases refer to it as "the App Store"... I am back on the unsure-button again, and would like to reach a common understanding through a civil discussion. LocalNet (talk) 19:57, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

• Hello there, LocalNet. It's because of the fact that the App Store is a service. It exists as an app on iOS and macOS platforms, but it is still very much a service. And Apple calls it "the App Store" because that is what it is. Almost everybody calls it "the App Store". Heck, even Apple's own "Download on the App Store" download badge for people to showcase their iOS or macOS apps on their websites which are on the App Store has "the" in the badge, because having "the" is grammatically correct. If the badge were to say, for example, "Download on App Store", that would be grammatically incorrect. I seriously think what Codename Lisa has been telling you is incorrect. Lisa (as far as I know) always falls back on some part of the Manual of Style or some other guideline with regards to this sort of thing (and probably some other things), even though in a few cases, it or other guidelines seriously are not a valid source of judgement for some articles. The MoS does not cover all articles, and as such different articles react differently to the MoS, such as this one. And as such, I think we should use "the App Store". Just my two cents. Hopefully this explanation helps you. :) - Kamran Mackey (talk to me · my contributions) 20:15, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

• Hi @KamranMackey: Thank you for coming to the discussion! Having done more research, I am actually incapable of finding any sources not using "the". My initial hunch about grammar is one thing, but it is entirely another thing when the apparently "correct" wording, as per Lisa's response on her talk page, is used by what appears to be literally no one else, making me question the validity of dropping "the". At this point, based both on grammar and sources, I am leaning to keep "the" in the article. I still want to hear Lisa's thoughts before making any changes, though. LocalNet (talk) 20:29, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

• Hello. People do lots of things wrong and sheer number of those wrong things mustn't make you think it is correct. For example, we have thousands of driving infractions each year even though people learn the rules of driving and get a certificate for it. Same goes with grammar. Only there is not ticket for writing "the App Store". Hence people do it more freely. But that doesn't mean it is correct. The only reason people make this particular mistake is because they "feel" it is right and judge based upon their feelings not concrete rules. (A reason for "the App Store" mistake is its false friend, "the app store" which is pronounced exactly the same.) If you go by your feelings, you will never be able to grab the coveted FA status. I have one FA article, so I know it the hard way.

That said, KamranMackey is wrong about being a service. First, it is both an app and a service. Second, service names, like all other proper nouns, are written without "the". Like "Microsoft Azure", "Office 365", "OneDrive", "Gmail", "Google", "Bing", "Amazon", etc.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 00:03, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Hi @Codename Lisa: Just as a point of order, "all proper nouns are written without "the"" is wrong, as there are exceptions, including names of buildings ("the White House"), newspapers ("the Daily Telegraph"), and organizations ("the United Nations"). When I wrote "It's kind of a gray area" on your talk page, that's also because it is. Would it be acceptable language to write "on the App Store store" when the sentence is intended to be referring to it as a store and not as the proper noun? I could write "on the Google Play store", but "App Store store" would also be incorrect, wouldn't it? Thank you for coming to the discussion! I'm happy we can talk this through and come to an understanding, even if we disagree right now :) LocalNet (talk) 04:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Okay, I stand corrected: Not "all" proper nouns, but "most" proper nouns. We already covered "the App Store store": It should be avoided even though it is not grammatically wrong. —Codename Lisa (talk) 07:00, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• And this is exactly where our disagreements lie. I believe App Store lies under the proper nouns category for a phrase that does need "the". It's apparent that we are divided on the matter, 2 vs 2... not sure where to go from here. LocalNet (talk) 07:06, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
• There's actually many exceptions to the rule about proper nouns, as listed here, and even Wikipedia's article on proper nouns debates the use of "the" in particular places. I stand by my thinking: "The App Store". LocalNet (talk) 07:53, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• I hear you loud and clear. And yet I am concerned that you have no tangible principle or rule to back you up. Don't get me wrong: There are a lot of exceptions for using the definite article with the already-definite nouns and names, but please pay attention that you define them as "exceptions", meaning that the mainstream rule is still not using definite articles with definite nouns and names. Therefore, in the absence of a tangible exception, we fall back to the mainstream rule. And let's not forget that we still have MOS:COMPUTING. —Codename Lisa (talk) 08:36, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Well, I can't blame you there. The rule does indeed state that normally proper nouns don't need a definite article. I was kind of hoping someone would come along and agree with me for consensus here, but I don't see that happening with this avalanche of comments haha :) It's not a major issue for me to drop "the", just feels unnatural (doing that just for friendly April Fools since I know you dislike those comments ;) and it does constitute skepticism. But the only actual evidence I can present is my logic, and that unfortunately might not be enough in this case. LocalNet (talk) 09:00, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support deletion of "the": In Wikipedia we use sources to verify facts only. We don't mimic their mistakes. If you don't feel safe removing "the", try replacing it with "Apple". "Apple App Store" is fine. FleetCommand (Speak your mind!) 00:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Hi @FleetCommand: Thank you for commenting! "Apple App Store" would not be ideal. Apple has two app stores, one for the iOS platform and one for the Mac platform, causing ambiguity in some contexts. And doesn't "solve" the core issue, as "available on the Apple App Store" would be a lengthier way of encountering the same issue. LocalNet (talk) 04:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• It is called Mac App Store. So, you can write iOS App Store for this one. Oh, look, there is already a redirection to it there. —Codename Lisa (talk) 06:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Both of you (Codename Lisa & FleetCommand) are incorrect. You are literally calling the company who invented the App Store incorrect, which is just wrong. You guys cannot deny by any means whatsoever that "the App Store" isn't proper grammar. And it's not really mimicking their mistakes if it's not a mistake. "the App Store" is proper wording, regardless if you guys think otherwise. Even Apple calls it "the App Store", and as such you guys have no valid grounds or arguments of saying we cannot use "the". And as such, "the" should stay except for at the very beginning of the article, as App Store is the title of the article. If you guys don't believe me, here's Apple's latest press release regarding the App Store. - Kamran Mackey (talk to me · my contributions) 02:34, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• Well, @KamranMackey: Denying it is exactly what they can and *should* do here, so let's not discourage that. Same goes for "no valid grounds or arguments", because proper nouns do indeed usually drop "the". But there are exceptions to that rule, which is where my suspicion falls into. LocalNet (talk) 04:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
• "You are literally calling the company who invented the App Store incorrect". And I am proud of it too! I did that to Microsoft and Adobe already. Apple is a company that produces useful products and charges hefty sums for them. That's how I see Apple. It is neither a god nor an authority on grammar.

"If you guys don't believe me [...]". Oh, I believe you. I just don't care.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 06:57, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• And here I was thinking we could have a constructive, positive, decent discussion about this. I want nothing more than for all of us to agree, but we obviously don't. There is a way to be respectful towards one another and acknowledge our differences, and remain concentrated on the topic at hand. This isn't that way. LocalNet (talk) 07:06, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• @LocalNet: Look, I have seen you at work in Wikipedia and respect you a lot. But with all due respect, I see no rudeness in expressing that in my view, Apple's angle is irrelevant to our discussion. That said, we have a saying in Wikipedia: No angry mastodons! In other words, do not mis-perceive a mere opposing opinion as offense. I stayed on the topic, refrained from commenting on a person and even reprimanded FleetCommand for doing the opposite. —Codename Lisa (talk) 08:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• @Codename Lisa: Thank you, that's nice to hear. :) But I do think we are misunderstanding here. My response above was related to your "I just don't care." comment, which was perceived by me as a direct offense against not caring about Kamran's opinion. If that is a misunderstanding, then it's good to have that explained, but just be careful in the future, because context can be misleading :) LocalNet (talk) 08:38, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• @LocalNet: Aha! That's exactly what I am talking about: "I don't care" refers to not caring about the significance of Apple's deviation, not Kamran. Actually, if I didn't care about Kamran, I wouldn't have replied to him. Are we good now? :) —Codename Lisa (talk) 08:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

• @Codename Lisa: Aha indeed! Miscommunication due to differently perceived context. It's good to have that clear :) Yes, we're good. :) Thanks again for your comment, by the way, it's always nice to hear other editors appreciate and respect my work. I'm happy we could talk and it's important to remember we're all Wikipedians arguing for the greater good, even if we completely disagree at times hehe :) LocalNet (talk) 09:00, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello everybody! It's been a while since this discussion took place. I'm not sure any of you care about it anymore, but I'm back because I do. Originally I decided it was okay to drop "the", but due to it sounding wrong, I have gradually done research over the past weeks since this discussion. I'm here with evidence and examples of why "the" is correct! Hear me out:

• The names of organizations, products and services that end with a word that normally requires "the" also use "the". Examples: "the union was established" - "the" European Union. An even better example is "parliament" - "let's go to the parliament" - "the" European Parliament, a *featured* article on Wikipedia. Going even further, that article leads to Council of the European Union, a *good article* which states "sometimes just called the Council."
• Same thing goes with certain places, too. "The" United Kingdom, and "The" United States, the latter a *good article* on Wikipedia.
• And finally, I have this page that further supports me: https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/nouns-proper.htm, which gives multiple examples, including "the" United Nations (another good article), "the" Royal Theatre, "the" White House, and "the" Ritz Hotel.

All of these end with a normal word that would require "the" in a natural sentence, and it should be kept even if it is a proper noun. "The App Store" because "store" is a regular word, and you wouldn't say "let's go to store". Follows the exact naming conventions of established global language and even accepted Wikipedia policy. I rest my case, hahaha. No really, I want to keep this friendly, but it really has bothered me, which is why I came back with all of this argumentation. :P If I get any response, cool! If I don't, I will edit "the" into the article and keep using it. LocalNet (talk) 14:50, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello, LocalNet

I am afraid I have to disappoint you; I have already seen many versions of this incorrect theory that tries to sanction "the" when one or more of the words are those that are normally indefinite.

• Counter-example for you: "Office" is a normally indefinite word. But still "the Microsoft Office" is wrong, unless you turn it into "the Microsoft Office productivity suite". Other examples: Internet Explorer, Jazz Jackrabbit, Star Trek, Modern Warfare.
• In addition, in case of all your examples, if they become a book title or film title, nobody precedes them with "the".

What led you to research was not the discovery of a principle but a way to avoid one; as such, and unsurprisingly, not a single example of yours is about computing. And your motive was what has led many students astray: It sounded wrong. I have told many a student many times that they should make peace with the fact that correct grammar might sound wrong. We even know the scientific reason as to why it sounds wrong: Out-of-context memorization.

A little exercise for you: In the above paragraph, must I not have written "lead you to the research"?

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 19:14, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

• Hello again @Codename Lisa: Darn it, I really thought I could convince you with this :P It really bothers me :( I try not to get personal opinions mixed up in editing, but I'm only human and this is the first time I have encountered someone dropping "the" from "App Store". Literally the first and only time I've experienced this situation. Your examples do make sense, though. I never say "the Microsoft Office". Darn it, why do you have to bring logic and good reasoning onto the Internet? That's what I wanted to use to convince you, not the other way around, haha! But how do you know where to draw the line? Is it specifically due to the market of computing, as you mentioned? Because you are right that none of my examples apply to that field, but I thought they were general concepts. This language stuff can be fascinating (and annoying :P). Sorry for continuing the thread, I really thought this would be the end of it. LocalNet (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
• Having edited the Apple Music article recently, it gives further evidence towards your claim @Codename Lisa: We say "turn on the music", but not "turn on the Apple Music". It does indeed appear to be out-of-context memorization that is the driving force here. Just wanted to write this. LocalNet (talk) 14:40, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

• "[T|t]he App Store" and "the Apple App Store" are both correct, because the core word is store. "the" cannot be used with specific model names, though, such as "iPhone SE", but can be used in generalised names, such as "the iPhone". -Mardus /talk 02:16, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Several change suggestions

1. An SVG logo
2. New screenshot of iOS 11, not any beta version. If not changed, at least make it smaller to not look blurry.
3. Template:For text change to {{for|the app store of macOS|Mac App Store.}} or {{for|the macOS version of the App Store|Mac App Store.}}.
4. Many places in the text is written like iOS 11 will be released, but at this point it's already released.
Where it says so (at the point of writing this is): App Store (iOS) (introduction text, third paragraph), App Store (iOS)#History (last paragraph), App Store (iOS)#App approval process (last paragraph), App Store (iOS)#Large-scale app removals (last paragraph).
Also, instead of saying "late 2017" for example, say the actual release date of iOS 11: September 19, 2017 (most countries) and September 20, 2017 (some countries) (see sources of iOS 11).
185.189.112.70 (talk) 14:43, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2017

Hi,

I found some of the pages are broken(404) which needs to edit.

I have a list of relevant content. So prefer to edit this page.

Kindly allow me to do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Latamotvani (talk • contribs) 11:52, 10 October 2017 (UTC) I plan to add an opinion other than apples about the app store. Most of the article is in apples favor but nothing about how their app store needs improvement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mycahhaynes (talk • contribs) 15:36, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 18 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 19:13, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

---

App Store (iOS) → App Store – Already redirects here. Unreal7 (talk) 16:52, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – I'd rather undo this redirect grab] and fix the approximately 100 ambiguous links from article space (compared to over 1000 unambiguous links to the current title). I volunteer to do that; started. Dicklyon (talk) 20:08, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose App Store should be made into a disambiguation page between the WP:BROADCONCEPT page, iOS and Mac versions._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 22:48, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• Already exists as App store. -- Netoholic @ 06:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per Dicklyon. Restore the redirect to App store. -- Netoholic @ 06:10, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the move and App Store redirecting here for that matter. App Store should redirect to App store. The distinction in capitalization doesn't make sense here. —DIYeditor (talk) 07:00, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose and restore redirect to App store. --Ahecht (TALK
  PAGE) 15:47, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose and restore redirect to App store. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
• Help? – I know I volunteered, and I've done another 30 or so fixes, but if anyone else wants to help, that would be welcome. Articles with links needing to be disambuated are at this special page. Dicklyon (talk) 02:19, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
  • @Dicklyon: Ok I've knocked some out. Mostly changed App Store to iOS App Store (a number of times needing a "the"). Not sure if it is desirable to link to a redirect like that or if the style would be considered correct (versus, say "Apple App Store") so I thought I'd take a break. Found a few that meant to link to generic app store. Also created redirect App Store (macOS) to match App Store (iOS). —DIYeditor (talk) 03:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
    • I found one for app store, too. I think it's great to just use the redirects like iTunes App Store, App Store for the iPhone, iOS App Store, Apple App Store, etc. where appropriate. Not sure what App Store (macOS) is; is that a separate Apple App Store? Dicklyon (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
      • Yes Mac App Store is treated separately. I prefer the title App Store (macOS) for it, or iOS App Store for this one. Minor issue but I think they should match each other. —DIYeditor (talk) 03:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
        • Yes, I'd favor the more natural iOS App Store, I think. Thanks for your help. Fewer than 40 to go. Dicklyon (talk) 04:08, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
          • Done except for Brave (web browser) where the link to App Store was hidden in templates in a way that wasn't obvious to me. Also created App Store (tvOS) stub with a redirect from tvOS App Store since Apple actual runs 3 distinct App Stores. —DIYeditor (talk) 05:31, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
            • Thanks. I went ahead and undid the redirect change now that we've fix the problems that had motivated it. I agree that one is cryptic, not something I can figure out how to fix. Dicklyon (talk) 23:08, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
            • @DIYeditor: You can click the "[±]" next to "Stable release(s)" to edit that section of the infobox. --Ahecht (TALK
              PAGE) 16:17, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2018

95.102.252.112 (talk) 17:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

 Invalid No edit proposed, none can be made. —DIYeditor (talk) 17:35, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2018

66.181.160.96 (talk) 05:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

again, you need to propose a change so that it can be made. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 06:50, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2018

178.138.35.57 (talk) 17:38, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 18:37, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2019

Jannethgaucin11 (talk) 06:24, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 06:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 February 2019

115.164.182.132 (talk) 22:37, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Roadguy2 (talk) 23:01, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2019

2402:3A80:997:A420:A802:FB33:284:A1E3 (talk) 04:56, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Kpgjhpjm 06:43, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: {{{result}}} — Wug·a·po·des​ 04:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

---

App Store (iOS/iPadOS) → App Store – Primary topic for the proper name "App Store", WP:DIFFCAPS, avoids parendis, WP:CONCISE. 17jiangz1 (talk) 13:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 17:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

• This will need furthur discussion. "App Store" is technically a store for computer purposes, such as applications (software). Also, using "(iOS/iPadOS)" is necessary information. Seventyfiveyears (talk) 14:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

App store could easily be moved to App marketplace though, and would probably be a less ambiguous name for that page anyway. — HTGS (talk) 04:22, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. Besides being a generic name, there is also the fact that Apple has App Store (iOS/iPadOS) and Mac App Store. --Gonnym (talk) 10:56, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.