User talk:Amatulic

If I left a message on your talk page, please reply there; I have it on my watch list. If you initiate contact here, I will respond here, so make sure you put this page on your watch list. Thanks!

Hi!

Hi! How are you? Please visit Deletion review for Hiroyuki Tsuchida An editor has asked for a deletion review of Hiroyuki Tsuchida. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kotjap (talk • contribs) 02:03, 21 January 2013‎

Eschoir

Hi there; this user, with whom you have interracted within the last few months, has posted an unblock request. Would you be good enough to review the thread and to comment thereon? --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 17:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I have promised this editor that I will review his/her edits on a 24/7 basis for the next 2/12, if you agree to unblock on this basis. But I am waiting for you decision here; this user has been problematical in the past. --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 21:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Moving pages without leaving a redirect

Ello Amatulić,

Recently you moved page Cargobicycle to Freight bicycle over a redirect without leaving a redirect but forgot to check WhatLinksHere and due to that, 22 redirects to Cargobicycle were left broken. (I fixed them all :) In the future, please be sure to check! :) -- Cheers, Riley 02:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Hm. In my haste I assumed, wrongly, that a recently created implausible redirect wouldn't have any inbound links. I guess the person who moved the article to Cargobicycle must have changed the links at the time of the move. Thanks for fixing. ~Amatulić (talk) 04:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Windows Blue

Hi Amatulic. I believe your pushing your tools a bit too far here. It was not a re-creation of the deleted page. Blue is a major update to W8. I created that redirect as a genuine reader. Please restore that redirect and talkpage. It causes no harm and only helps direct more attention on the W8 article for expansion. Latest trusted source (18hrs old). Rehman 15:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Windows Blue. The admin you need to ask is User:Sjakkalle, the closing admin for that AFD who determined that a redirect was not appropriate. If Sjakkalle agrees that a redirect is now appropriate, I have no objection either. ~Amatulić (talk) 15:35, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I fully agree with the AFD, but as you can clearly see for yourself, the situation has clearly changed. With all due respect to the other admin, are you trying to say that just because an admin deleted a page, s/he owns that article? And we need his/her permission to recreate it when we clearly can create it now (at least a redirect)? That's fine if it's the same user recreating the page. But I had created that page as a third-party, genuinely looking up the term, and not finding anything, not at least a redirect. "Windows+Blue" 3.5 million Google results as of now. Please restore that redirect. Rehman 01:10, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually it's about half that. Half of those results refer to "windows blue screen of death". ~Amatulić (talk) 01:27, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. But it's less than half. And even if it is half, it's still a big number. Rehman 02:14, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I am not saying that anyone owns the page. I am saying however, that you will find all admins on Wikipedia reluctant to revert the decision of another admin without first getting agreement from the admin who made the decision. I have posted a note on Sjakkalle's talk page. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:24, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the query. In the AFD I declined to make a redirect because there was no reference to "Windows Blue" in the suggested target article. That means that a reader following a redirect at "Windows Blue" will face confusion when the article he was directed to contains nothing about it. That does not mean that this result is set in stone; however I looked at the Microsoft Windows article and it still has no mention to Windows Blue. Per the points made by Rehman above, it is possible that mentioning Microsoft Blue in that article may be a good idea, and in that case a redirect may be appropriate as well. Sjakkalle (Check!) 17:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. But that still doesn't hold:

 • Having no redirect = Doesn't help the reader. Doesn't help the potential writer.

 • Having a redirect = At least points the reader to a related article (instead of absolutely nothing). Encourages further expansion.

I have no big interest in needing that redirect up and running, I just want to make it clear that deleting such redirects just doesn't make sense. It's impossible for me to remember out of the blue, but there are already quite a significant number of such redirects which points at their related article with the target article not containing the subjects of the redirect. This is at least the case in the astronomy-related articles I frequently read. Redirecting Blue to Windows 8 at least gives the reader some fact the Blue is related W8. Something is better than nothing. Rehman 01:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I see where Rehman is coming from, but I disagree with him that no redirect doesn't help the reader; it tells the reader that Wikipedia doesn't cover the topic he was looking for. The relevant guideline here is WP:R#PLA which says: "Normally, we try to make sure that all "inbound redirects" other than misspellings or other obvious close variants of the article title are mentioned in the first couple of paragraphs of the article or section to which the redirect goes." Sjakkalle (Check!) 19:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's the best way to treat existing redirects, but has absolutely nothing to do with I am trying to put forward here. The page you're referring to doesn't say to abstain from creating redirects just because there isn't related content in the lead, does it? With all due respect, please stop spiralling into limbo and just restore the harmless redirect already. The rocketing Google results clearly shows that your original reason for deletion no longer holds. What this "modern Wikipedia" always forgets nowadays is that, this is a volunteer project; You build the road to the subject, and someone else will build the subject. Please restore the redirect and end this thread; we can dedicate our time in much more important venues than worrying about a simple redirect. Rehman 01:10, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

What is wrong with simply mentioning "Windows Blue" in the lead and creating the redirect? If there's a relationship, it should be mentioned and the redirect should exist. If not, then there's no reason to have the redirect anyway. We don't create redirects for topics that have no coverage. ~Amatulić (talk) 01:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)The deleted version was pretty speculative, and that it's official isn't grounds to restore that version, in my opinion, but rather, to create a whole new version based on the sources that have now appeared.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Amatulic:

• What is wrong with simply mentioning "Windows Blue" in the lead and creating the redirect? Nothing. I just don't have the time myself to go into research/article writing right now. But this is Wikipedia, someone somewhere will have the time, if we can stop crushing the little paths leading to the opportunity. I have been telling this since the beginning!
• If not, then there's no reason to have the redirect anyway Being an admin, please tell me you're kidding. We're not some multi-billion dollar paid-encyclopedia. There were/are hundreds of thousands of redirects pointing to articles without related content. And then someone adds that information when they have time. That was, is, and always will be how Wikipedia works. Such redirects always plays a major role in site-wide expansion, encyclopedic or not. Bombing down such key paths to development just makes thing very user-unfriendly.
• We don't create redirects for topics that have no coverage. I would like to see some solid evidence on this.

Kindly please read through the whole thread, see what I am trying to ask for here, before you're next reply. --Rehman 02:14, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

You seem to have time to write paragraphs on this talk page, yet you don't have the time to modify a single sentence in the lead? I say again, there is no reason to have a redirect to an article unrelated to that redirect. The fact that it happens is not a valid argument. I did read this thread. What I see here is an argument to create a new article, not to redirect a title to an unrelated topic.

Someone else nominated that redirect for deletion, because there was a valid reason to do so. It had been determined earlier that it should not exist, and I deleted it. I have no objection to restoring the redirect if the target mentions the topic, or creating a new article about a rumored "Windows Blue" (the rumor being notable due to its coverage). But the conditions necessary for having any content show up at all for "Windows Blue" have not been met, as far as I can tell. ~Amatulić (talk) 02:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Your whole last response if completely irrelevant. Could you kindly point out where have I said that I wanted to create an article? And could you clearly reply to the three points I made above please? Rehman 02:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

It should have been obvious that my last response was a point by point response to your three points, as well as some additional commentary. I can separate it into bullets if you want, but I felt it unnecessary. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Do you disagree to point 2? If so, why? And what is your evidence to point 3? Rehman 03:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and I explained why. My response to point 3 was based on WP:R.

In any case, the redirect now exists. Problem solved. ~Amatulić (talk) 04:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

AN notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:28, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Windows Blue case

Hello, Amatulic

Thanks for attending to G4 on Windows Blue page. Unfortunately, it is recreated again, with a nonexistent redirect target. Perhaps the page should be salted?

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:18, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

If you look carefully, it redirects to an appropriate target. It isn't nonexistent. ~Amatulić (talk) 09:29, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Oh, I see it: It is a single sentence. Yeah, it was really hard to spot. I though it redirects to "Platform Support". Thanks. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 09:50, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Reverting decline at Adam in Islam

There is a clear consensus on changing all articles of personality in Islam form "Islamic view of X" → "X in Islam". See here and this title also need to be corrected so kindly move the page to the title "Adam in Islam". --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 10:13, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The move request referenced discussions on Talk:Abraham in Islam. The two closed move discussions there had no consensus for such a move. Therefore I declined the request. However, I see I missed a third discussion there in the middle. Anyway, someone else took care of it. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Calabaza Republic

I notice that you have been dealing with the debris left by Jason Flom. I recognized the name Calabaza Republic immediately (and the picture used for the label as well) as similar to Calabaza Records, which led me to suspect Jason and the other editors of Calabaza as a new batch of puppets of Horizontal Law. I have reopened that SPI to include the new editors. It has already been dealt with. (That was quick!) WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Hm. I blocked Jason Flom for promotional activities. Didn't know that account was a sock, or that the problem was so extensive. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:43, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Just This Once

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:04, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Amatulic

Hi Amatulic,

I require your feedback and valuable suggestions about my articles. The article which i have written with good reference links and citations is being entirely deleted by an anonymous user ( from IP address, not an wikipedia editor). Could you take look at that article and help me regarding the same. Here's my latest article- INSZoom

Thanks and Regards,

Writeindia (talk) 28 February 2013

I agree with the anonymous editor who is removing material. Your writing is promotional in tone, and the sources you are using (youtube etc.) to support the assertions are poor. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:04, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Steve Cyr in English

I have created the Page Steve Cyr and it had gotten deleted. I've included valid references and a format. Steve is a well known VIP host within Vegas and is a notable figure. WHat do i need to do to keep this page up? --96.26.154.133 (talk) 23:31, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Steven Cyr, written by Stevencyr (talk · contribs) was deleted as being unambiguously promotional as well as containing copyright violations. Another article Steve Cyr, written by a sockpuppet account Vegashost (talk · contribs) apparently controlled by the original account Stevecyr (talk · contribs), was deleted as being substantially identical to the first article, and both Stevencyr and Vegashost accounts are now blocked (Stevecyr is still unblocked). Since you claim to have created the page Steve Cyr, that means you are the same person.

User:Stevecyr is also a copy of the same article, and also a copyright violation of http://stevecyr.com/team/about-steve/ so it will soon be deleted also.

As long you persist on writing the article with a promotional tone and copyright violation, the article will continue to be deleted. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:58, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Box of Seals

Can you please return me a copy of my "Box of Seals" article. As I was invited to comment, I stated on the Discussion Page how it was a Work in Progress - did you not read the notes? I would appreciate the return of the text for my archives. Please do not find my being short with you - merely unfamiliar with this system and the speed by which you decline my writing. Anthony Seldon (talk) 14:09, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

The article made me chuckle, particularly the image caption. I'll restore it to your user space. As it stood in main space, it strongly smelled of a hoax. ~Amatulić (talk) 14:12, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Give this too, my bog-o-meter is flashing. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:17, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Now, that is just vandalism. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:28, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Anthony Seldon/Box of seals
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Warm glass

Might be of interest Andy Dingley (talk) 11:03, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Open mHealth

Looks like the editor in question has release for the content in question. Probably good to give them a couple of days to take care of the process via OTRS. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 20:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Any random editor can claim to have permission to republish copyrighted content, and that doesn't mean anything. Wikipedia needs permission to re-post such content. There is no evidence that Wikipedia:Declaration of consent for all enquiries has been filed.

Nevertheless, I looked at the source and the article, and they are probably different enough that a copyvio isn't the issue. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah just deleted it again while we wait for the paper work. :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 20:46, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Are you going to delete the talk page too? ~Amatulić (talk) 21:14, 5 March 2013 (UTC) (if you write on my page I'll reply on my page, to keep the conversation consistent)

Hepatitis Monthly

Hi, I de-PRODded this article because I think the journal is notable (although I absolutely agree with you that not each academic journal is inherently notable). Hepatitis Monthly is indexed in some very selective databases (Scopus and SCI-Expanded) and has a very respectable impact factor, so it meets WP:NJournals (just an essay, but generally followed in AfDs of journals). Hope you agree. Happy editing! --Randykitty (talk) 09:36, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

That's OK. After examining suspicious promotional activity of the author who has a clear COI, did a brief search and didn't see any evidence of notability, so I prodded it. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:47, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Questions on Decline

Hello Amatulic,

I have recently started working for a company that tried posting the below information on Wikipedia. I am trying to figure out what was the reason for the decline- if there was a specific reason in the content you can point out to me- and if you can direct me in a way to re-write this.

Thank you in advance for your help

Smangiapane (talk) 19:23, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

(article copy-and-paste removed)

No need to paste the entire article here. I can see what was deleted at Information Technology Empowerment Center.

To answer your question, the article failed to make any assertion of significance (resulting in its speedy deletion) and it also failed to meet Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion.

See WP:CSD#A7 for the reason why the article was speedy-deleted. To avoid speedy deletion, an article must assert why the topic is important. The fact that the organization exists and does good work, or even does unique work, is not sufficient. What's so special about ITEC that it should have a Wikipedia article?

Even if notability had been asserted to avoid speedy deletion, it would still be deleted by the WP:AFD process because the article failed to meet Wikipedia's inclusion criteria for organizations. See WP:CORP to learn what criteria an organization must meet before it merits an article on Wikipedia.

Hope this helps. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I hope this is the correct place to write you back. Luckily, we do have reliable sources which include some newspaper articles but they have already been archived and charge individuals to view. We did however for our own purposes, saved them in a Dropbox folder as a PDF. How do we refer people to theses archived articles? Can we just post our PDF Dropbox file? Smangiapane (talk) 20:48, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sources need not be available online to be used as references; however, the coverage must constitute more than trivial mentions, and the sources should have national, or at least regional distribution (not local community newspapers) according to WP:CORP.

Because you have a conflict of interest (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest for guidance), I recommend that you submit the article through WP:AFC rather than attempt to create it yourself in main article space. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:53, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Coppola talk page and article

Please see comments from Ring Cinema and myself at Talk:Francis Ford Coppola. Thanks. Winkelvi (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

May Sun

I am in the process of working on this article. You deleted it before I could contest it or finish adding references. She is a prominent artist and she meets all the criteria. Can you please put the page back so I can finish. Thanks. ----Sue Maberry (talk) 23:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Restored. It's an unsourced biography, however, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia, so please add sources quickly. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:42, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Have added many sources. And, I'll continue over the next few days. --Sue Maberry (talk) 20:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

VK4502(p)

Why did you delete my VK4502(p) page? i don't go around and delete your stuff so please restore my page it was created by me and took a while to create so please put back don't go around and be rude — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comm1098 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I deleted it because it was a copyright violation. And it will likely get deleted again.

Also there is no "your stuff" or "my stuff" on Wikipedia. You'd best learn that real fast. See WP:OWN.

Especially, if you copy or only lightly paraphrase from another web site, it isn't "your" stuff or even Wikipedia's stuff, because Wikipedia has no permission to republish it. Continue in that vein and you risk being blocked. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

John Matthews Manly

Hi, Amatulic. I noticed you deleted John Matthews Manly as a G12 copvio -- but it was listed as being copied from this source which has a CC-BY-SA license. (I saw it only because I happened to look at another of this editor's creations that was listed for G12 --William Romaine Newbold). I agree with your edit summary that it needs some work to bring it close to Wikipedia. But I don't think it qualifies for speedy deletion. You may wish to recreate it. Cheers. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 02:18, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Wow, good catch. Restored. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:56, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Map controversy

Thank you for trying to explain. I was running round in circles and, as the person who proposed deletion, was probably never going to get far. There is a lot of confusion regarding OR/SYN and the Commons/en-WP relationship, aggravated by the mistaken impression that I am from "rival country India".

I'm involved in that many disputes at the moment with relatively new conributors that it is wearing me down. - Sitush (talk) 23:19, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I am skeptical that your rationale for deletion will fly on Commons, since Commons pretty much requires everything to be original work. Based on my conversations with other admins there, Commons is pretty relaxed about what they'll allow as long as it isn't copyrighted. The usage of the maps on Wikipedia is a clearer issue, I believe. Wikipedias in other countries would likely have no problem with those maps, so Commons is the most logical repository for them.

Working in articles covered by ArbCom general sanctions can wear you down if such articles are your main area of work on Wikipedia. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

This is the first time that I have seen ARBPIA deployed. And I'm not sure that it has any legs in this situation: skimming through stuff, nationalist bias is not something that seems to be a large part of the difficulties.

Commons has deleted such images nominated by me previously, although I can't name any off the top of my head. I agree that they are pretty relaxed by comparison with WP, though the number of instances of copyvio'd content is so high in my experience that it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I just look at stuff connected to things I do on WP. - Sitush (talk) 07:17, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

The file was kept at Commons. However, so that a consolidated content discussion related to the Punjabi dialects map can occur in one place on English Wikipedia (instead of many different places), I have created the discussion page File talk:Map on Dialects Of Punjabi Language.jpg. Please continue discussion there. --Orlady (talk) 16:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Saratoga Mall, California

Where are you getting a "Saratoga Mall" in California? The only "Saratoga" mall I see in California was El Paseo de Saratoga, which ceased to be a mall in 1996. There is a mall on Saratoga in San Jose, but it's called Westgate Shopping Center. And as far as I can tell, the New York mall is the only "Saratoga Mall" in existence. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 07:57, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, this image quite clearly shows an apostrophe in "80's Ladies". Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 08:00, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Care to answer me? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:18, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Why? I have no problem with your analysis above, and the higher resolution image you found.

By the way, the locals here often refer to the Westagate as Saratoga Mall, which was the source of my confusion. That usage is likely due to the name of a theater and the major draw there (AMC Saratoga) influences what people call the whole shopping center. Or it could be that Westgate recently took it over and changed the name (there are multiple Westgate shopping malls in the area). ~Amatulić (talk) 19:55, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can find, Westgate was always called Westgate, as evidenced by this 1960s photo. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah yes. There are a couple of Westfield malls around here, but you're right it isn't the same as Westgate. Must be the theater there that causes people to call it "Saratoga Mall". ~Amatulić (talk) 20:35, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Talk page templates

Thanks for fixing the coding on that discussion page. I'm not a professional coder, and (as a result) I'm not good at remembering templates names and syntax. Accordingly, I often do a quick search for the sort of template I'm after, then use the first suitable one that presents itself. On that page, I used Template:Discussion-Closed-End and Template:Discussion-Closed-Start to delimit the old discussions, having found them at Category:Talk namespace templates. (I had never used them before, but they served the purpose.) I just now inserted a "see also" link in that category to point to Category:Wikipedia formatting and function templates, which would have helped me if I had found it! No wonder Wikipedia is so bewildering to newbies... --Orlady (talk) 17:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I have the same problem! I saw what you did, then I remembered I had one of those nifty collapsing templates (Template:Hidden archive top) on my user page. I didn't want a hidden archive though, but the bottom of that template page has links to other archiving templates. The closed discussion ones weren't quite right because they included a warning message in big bold letters against modifying the discussion. Template:Collapse top seemed like the best and most flexible one, with lots of configuration options for heading messages, whether the default should be collapsed or expanded, etc. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:19, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad to know I'm not alone. I've used all of those templates at one time or another, but I couldn't remember what I was looking for. Glad you found it! --Orlady (talk) 17:42, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Help needed for User:Maria0333‎

The user has blanked her talk page. I reported her for her un-constructive behaviour and she was blocked for 24 hours, but now with an other image, which is for "Dialects of Punjabi", but she has put it witha size of 400px in these unwanted articles: The following pages on the English Wikipedia link to this file (pages on other projects are not listed): Ahmadpur East Attock Attock District Bahawalnagar Bahawalnagar District Bahawalpur Bahawalpur District Bhakkar Bhakkar District Burewala Chakwal Chhachi dialect Chishtian Darya Khan Dera Ghazi Khan Dera Ghazi Khan District Derawali dialect Dhani dialect Dialects of the Punjab Doabi dialect Dogri language Faisalabad Faisalabad District Ghebi dialect Gujar Khan Gujranwala Gujranwala District Gujrat District Gujrat city Haroonabad, Bahawalnagar Hasilpur Jampur Jandali dialect Jauharabad Jhangvi dialect Jhelum Jhelum District Kalabagh Karor Lal Esan Kasur Kasur District Khanewal Khanewal District Khanpur Khushab Khushab District Kot Adu Lahnda (Western Punjabi) Lahore Lahore District Layyah Layyah District Liaqauatpur Lodhran Lodhran District Mailsi Malwi dialect Mianwali Mianwali District Multan Multan District Multani dialect Muzaffargarh Muzaffargarh District Nankana Sahib District Narowal Narowal District Punjab, Pakistan Punjabi language Pwadhi dialect Rahim Yar Khan Rahim Yar Khan District Rajanpur Rajanpur District Rawalpindi Rawalpindi District Riasti dialect Riyasati dialect Sadiqabad Sargodha Sargodha District Shah puri dialect Sheikhupura Sheikhupura District Sialkot Sialkot District Sohawa Thalochi dialect Vehari District

Please help! This image has also a problem of "original research" and is under discussion, but in these unrelated pages with a size of 400px is not justified! This is the image: File:Map_on_Dialects_Of_Punjabi_Language.jpg

You don't have to reproduce the whole list, I can see it myself on the image file.

Maria0333 is blocked. Note that the map may be appropriate in some of those articles. Where it clearly doesn't fit in, it should be removed. ~Amatulić (talk) 15:48, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

The block was appropriate and easily justifiable IMO. We should really make some kind of intro editors to wikipedia. Does a video like this exist? (Lowkeyvision (talk) 17:05, 23 March 2013 (UTC))

Amatulic! She is back with IP:39.47.79.63! I have reported her, see her message on my talk here and its translation Faizan (talk) 13:12, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Lowkeyvision: There is an intro, in the form of a welcome message with helpful links, and nearly all new editors get one. Welcoming new users isn't done by a bot, however, you have to volunteer to take part in the task.

Faizan: We don't identify IP address with user account, so such cases reported as WP:SPI will be summarily closed (as yours has been). As for Maria0333, all I have to say is, for someone who bills herself as a professional linguist, that's pretty immature. Either this IP is a poser or she has misrepresented herself. In any case, someone blocked the IP address. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Ok thanks Amatulić! Faizan (talk) 08:23, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Why did you delete my StarForge page?

What gives you the right man? I spent a few hours making that page what it is and you just delete all my work? What's the big idea? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totric (talk • contribs) 00:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTAL. Wikipedia publishes topics that are notable, not stuff that's still in the future and may or may not happen.

The article was deleted as unambiguous promotion.

If you want, I can restore the article to your own user space to work on at your leisure without worrying about deletion. But in the state it was in, it wasn't acceptable for main article space. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Could you do that then please?

Page Review Request

Hi Amatulic,

Can u check this page INSZoom. Can you help removing AfD tag? The above page is about a notable firm in immigration industry and also have received lots of awards.

Thanks, MrNiceGuy114 (talk) 17:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Once an article is tagged with AFD, it cannot be removed until adequate discussion has taken place, to determine consensus whether the article should be kept or deleted. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:26, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

You're too nice

I appreciate your patience @ Talk:Antisemitism, but look at the snippet you left: it says "This shit shouldn't exist, it needs to be eliminated, and anyone who disagrees with that is a [well, that's the part you redacted]". Tell the guy to create an account and take it to AfD — 'cause that's what he wants. It'll be a speedy close. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 03:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

You can't talk to someone whose IP address keeps changing. I left the snippet in with the hope that would be satisfactory and cause the anon to stop. Please continue on the talk page. ~Amatulić (talk) 04:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Please reverse the damage

Someone with the name of Maria0333 changed this map [1] on January 31, 2013 and did it very badly see here [2]. First there was no need to change. second it was changed badly. I protested and requested for deletion. It is good news she has been blocked but what about the havoc she has created ? It is requested to reverse her edits or particularly related to this map and the original should be restored. I already manage W. Punjabi WIkipedia, WP Wiktionary and WP WIkiquote and dont have enough time to fight these stupid edit wars. She poses she is a linguist, would she like to introduce herself ? --Khalid Mahmood (talk) 08:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I am not an administrator on Commons, and have no more power or rights there than you. You may like to contact a commons administrator: there is a list of them on this page, under the heading "Administrators as of April 2013". JamesBWatson (talk) 11:23, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I am not an administrator on Commons either. The account here has been closed as a sockpuppet of a fairly prolific sockmaster. If Commons has a policy prohibiting sockpuppetry, then perhaps it could be enforced there if that person is still causing disruption there -- provided Commons has such rules. ~Amatulić (talk) 14:02, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Amatulic, in case you wondered, my message above was intended to be posted in answer to a similar message from Khalid Mahmood on my talk page. Evidently, having also looked at Khalid Mahmood's post here, I accidentally edited the wrong one. JamesBWatson (talk) 07:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

BK Stunners

Why did you delete that page as a hoax? The BK Stunners were a professional basketball team in the Philippines. Here is an article about them - PBL: BK Stunners need OT to foil Bacchus’ bid for 2-0 start --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I deleted an article called Burger King Stunners for the following reasons:

• The article had ZERO references to verifiable reliable sources.
• In the Wikipedia bios of the players listed, ZERO of those articles mention this team.
• Of the only two external links in the article, ZERO of them were relevant to the topic. One led to a "domain for sale" page, and the other was a personal page with the single word "hello", looking very much like the links in the article were masquerading as information.
• I found ZERO reliable source coverage for the team "Burger King Stunners" in a quick search of Google News; all I found were copies of this Wikipedia article that have spread around to other sites over the years.

All of this evidence pointed to a hoax. Evidently the nominator thought so too, else the article would not have been nominated. Therefore, I deleted the article as a hoax.

I'll grant that you might find better coverage, so I am open to reconsider the decision, but the article you link above doesn't mention Burger King; there's a similarity in initials. How do you know it's the same team? ~Amatulić (talk) 00:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The Exiled

Why was that page deleted?NHCLS (talk) 00:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Two reasons:

• WP:CSD#A7 - nothing explained why this band matters.
• WP:BAND - the band doesn't meet any of the inclusion criteria for bands.

In other words, there was no evidence, according to Wikipedia guidelines, that the band merits an article on Wikipedia. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, they did get really good reviews everywhere I looked, and they have been in concert with Sepultura, a band which merits a pretty big article on Wikipedia. As for explaining why the band matters, it was stated that they were on of the few metal bands from Swansea. And anyway, why does the band have to be notable. I have seen plenty of un-notable subjects on Wikipedia. Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 00:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Well, I didn't see any evidence of notability. The sources appeared to be blogs and local coverage only, and I saw no evidence that this band meets any of the criteria described in WP:BAND. Being "one of the few" isn't a claim of notability.

The fact that Wikipedia contains other poor articles isn't an argument to keep or delete; see WP:OTHERSTUFF.

They may be on the verge of becoming notable if they release two albums under an established label. It seems clear that they are still in an "up and coming" state, and to have an article on Wikipedia, the band must have already "arrived".

Want me to restore the article to your user space for "incubation" until a more appropriate time? ~Amatulić (talk) 00:49, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Kay'. That would be appreciated. Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 00:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Done: It's at User:NHCLS/The Exiled. ~Amatulić (talk) 01:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 01:15, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

And by the way, i dont know if you like that stuff, but, i recommend that band. Check them out on YouTube. NHCLS (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I did! They're certainly virtuoso musicians. Pretty tight band, too, the way they stay synced so well at high speed. I gravitate toward the more "traditional" heavy metal bands like Guns 'n' Roses, Black Sabbath, Poison, etc. I'm not really into death metal. But yes, they are very good at what they do.

One informal criterion for inclusion is "are they making money?" If not, they're still a WP:GARAGE band. They may or may not be making money, although I believe WP:GARAGE wouldn't really apply to this band, because they have gotten some recognition and played with a big name band. ~Amatulić (talk) 02:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

True. Even if I tend to prefer the experimental/progressive/symphonic/melodic type groups, its still hard to go without Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Dio, Ozzy,etc... Anyway, looking at the metal archives website, it show two bands from New Caledonia, neither of which are on Wikipedia. Would being one of the few metal groups from New Caledonia qualify as notable? NHCLS (talk) 23:11, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't believe "one of the few" qualifies as notable. WP:SIGCOV and WP:BAND are really the over-riding factors. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:35, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Rev del on Arachnoid mater

Some revisions of Arachnoid mater need to be deleted as they are blatant copyright violations, from various sources, including [3] and [4].

The revisions that need to be deleted are: [5] [6] [7] [8] Puffin ^{Let's talk!} 22:42, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Of the two links you mention:

• nih.gov - Material on government websites is generally public domain
• the notice at the bottom of the second link (csuchico.edu) explicitly says the page is freely distributable

I don't see this as a sufficiently "blatant" violation to hide those page revisions as well as your reversion. It's enough that you revert the material and leave a warning for the editor, who is acting in good faith but not understanding the issues about copy-and-paste. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:53, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Sterling (horse)

I was just looking at that one and was about to decline it. I'm not too worried because it may well not survive AfD, but you might want to reconsider after looking at the sources I found. It appears to be a real racehorse from about the 1870s, see [9] and this gbooks search. SpinningSpark 22:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I have no objection if you restore it. There was a sentence in the article that basically said the horse wasn't notable, so I agreed with the nominator and deleted it.

The same user also created an article about another horse, which I also deleted on WP:NOTINHERITED grounds because the article only described notability of that horse's descendants. You may restore that one too if you deem it appropriate. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: Regarding the page Merrick Bank that you deleted, I had added a hangon tag to that one because the author wanted more time to find sources. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:59, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I saw the tag, but the author's note on the talk page was more than three hours old. If they are not going to address it immediately, the only other real option is to userfy it.

On the horses, we are not really supposed to speedy delete articles on notability grounds. Something that is obviously going to fail at AfD might justify glossing over the rules little, but this one is not so obvious to my mind. SpinningSpark 23:33, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Catherine McGeoch

You deleted the page I created titled Catherine McGeoch (which was nominated for speedy deletion under section A7). In academic notability, the criteria (of which only one need be met, include:

5. The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or "Distinguished Professor" appointment at a major institution of higher education and research (or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon).

8. The person is or has been the head or chief editor of a major well-established academic journal in their subject area.

McGeoch meets both of these criteria (and probably at least one other). She is a named chair at Amherst College, one of the most selective and "highest ranked" educational institutions in the US. (I hate academic rankings) In addition, she was the editor-in-chief of a major academic journal. Both these facts were in the article that was deleted.

It is quite possible that I did not make this clear enough on the Talk page when I contested the speedy deletion, or perhaps that I did not make it clear enough in the article itself.

I look for guidance in this matter.

Cheers

Jerager (talk) 19:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

After I hit the delete button, I went and looked again at WP:ACADEMIC but got pulled away from Wikipedia on other business. I had planned to return to the article to restore it, but you beat me to it with your comment. ~Amatulić (talk) 19:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Recordstraight83

• Recordstraight83 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · what links to user page · count · COIBot · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)

Any thoughts on the edit patterns here? Most of this user's contributions consist of replacing the lede photo with a photo from this website, which has a bit of a POV focus. Thoughts? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:59, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Not sure. He hasn't disrupted past articles since receiving a warning from me, and his subsequent edits to Kabyle people didn't replace a lead image, so I see no reason to revert that. Another revert on Muhammad or Moses will trigger a block, which may get his attention enough to start collaborating with others.

The source of the images does have a POV focus, but the images themselves, if examined outside the context of that site, seem like they'd be acceptable for use in Wikipedia most cases. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Spyro the Dragon

What was your thinking behind the decision that "Spyro the Dragon" needs a (character) behind it after all? The series is called "Spyro (series)". There are no other characters named Spyro the Dragon. The first video game has a "(video game)" after it. Why should a page without parenthetical dab redirect to something that does? Axem Titanium (talk) 23:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

When I first performed the move, I didn't know there was another article with a similar name. Because it was unlcear whether the character or the series is the primary topic, I reverted myself. One could make equally valid arguments for moving the game or the character to the "Spyro the Dragon" title. Therefore, WP:CSD#G6 was not a valid rationale for the proposed move, because such a move does not seem completely without controversy.

I suggest you start a WP:RM discussion to determine which article should get the primary topic name. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Protection of WP:AFC templates

You recently fully-protected Template:AFC submission, which is highly visible to new editors submitting articles and to AFC reviewers but is all but absent in the main encyclopedia. I have opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation#Protection levels for Afc submission templates about whether this template and its sub-templates (which are what the end user actually sees) should be fully- or semi-protected. Your input is welcome. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I protected it only because someone at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion mentioned that new users were getting confused and posting their submissions into the template. Possibly I protected the wrong one. I'm happy to undo it if needed. ~Amatulić (talk) 04:13, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Nobody except myself and Mabdul is in the template's visible edit history since last August. I'm guessing you tagged the wrong file. Please change it back to semi-protection. Thanks. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Nah that is not quite correct. The project requested ~a year ago (or was it two?) semi protection for all project templates as there were some misplaced edits. But what is more important: As you can see at Wikipedia:Database reports/Templates transcluded on the most pages the template is already the 308th most used template at enwp (with 104735 transclusions) and thus editing this template or any sub template (cascade) the server has to do purge many pages. A few days ago we added a new cat, and sadly I was doing something wrong simply because I didn't tested enough with sandbox versions.

David: you saw how long it took the server to remove/add the pages to that cat. This kind of tasks are very slow!

The full protection (at least of the main template) is totally OK and good. We can simply request an edit by {{editprotected}} (or poking an admin in IRC) and luckily mostly all changes don't need any "consensus"... mabdul 05:36, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

OK. I'm happy to make any edits required. ~Amatulić (talk) 14:33, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Civilization Jihad

I has been brought to my attention that you have knowledge on Islamic topics. I was wondering if you could help me out on my page "Civilization Jihad." A little background: I created this page back in November and it was flagged for deletion right away but saved and a couple weeks ago it was deleted without my knowing. So I reposted it and now there is a lot of activity around it. As of now it is in my sandbox-not the final version because I am trying to add more sources and fix the some of the sections. However, it keeps getting flagged as an attack page. The topic itself merits a page and that I believe, is not a question. I realize the page needs work especially a wider variety of sources, but every time I mess with it people freak out and I can't get anything done. I was hoping me defend the topic and that it isn't an attack page. Here is my sandbox where the current version is located. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GroundRisk/sandbox and here is the MFD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:GroundRisk/sandbox Thanks. GroundRisk (talk) 20:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Deleted Page, wondering why and trying to fix

Hi Amatulic, You deleted my page "sustainable fine jewelry" recently, stating that it is advertising. I'm very confused. There is no reference to a company of any kind, and the only links are to non-profits. I was not ready to publish it, so I am not sure how it was viewed in the first place. Anyway, if you could show me what you mean by advertising in my case, I would be much obliged. Sustainable fine jewelry is a relatively new trend in the jewelry industry, so maybe you thought it was an advertisement for actual jewelry? I'd like to resubmit, and it is seems fair. Please re-read the posting and respond. Thanks so much.VictoriaRuta (talk) 22:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The outline you used (with headings like "philosopy") made the article seem like a brochure of some sort, and the links to a slew of organizations that seemed non-notable looked spammy.

That said, the topic is probably worthy of a Wikipedia article. But the state it was in wasn't ready for main article space. I have restored the article to User:VictoriaRuta/Sustainable fine jewelry for you to work on at your leisure. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

"Once Upon Our Yesterdays"

Can you please userfy "Once Upon Our Yesterdays" if no one has already done so? --Jax 0677 (talk) 12:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Reply - NVM, Mr. Stradivarius has already userfied this navbox. --Jax 0677 (talk) 10:47, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Yunatsite

You suggest that a valid topic should remain independent of who created it. When the user who created it was banned, at least in part, for distorting sources and even making up interpretations at odds with what the cited authors actually said, I can't be certain that it is a valid encyclopedia topic. Do you know otherwise? Agricolae (talk) 01:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

In this case, all the references are easily verifiable, because there are links to them. Did you check them? I did.

Valid encyclopedia topics exist independently of who created the article. I might have created a similar stub myself. The topic, as the earliest European settlement, is certainly notable. ~Amatulić (talk) 02:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

When I checked the first reference (the one at Google Books) it just showed me a bunch of blank pages that were unavailable for copyright reasons. The second was a newsletter of a national society of the type that could either be reliable or nationalistic fringe. If the site is the earliest European settlement, then it would be notable if it has received significant coverage as such in unbiased sources. Given the User's track record of intentionally distorting and cherry-picking sources while ignoring mainstream counter-interpretations he disagrees with (again, this is partly why he was banned), I am not at all certain that this is, in fact, thought by the international scholarly consensus to be the oldest European settlement - if it was, one would think there would be a wider array of sources calling it that. Given this User's track record of citing Google books entries that he himself has not viewed (I once went through the laborious process of recovering a dozen pages of text from Google books snippets and search result text strings for a source he had cited only to discover that it had absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed), I cannot at all be certain that the seemingly unbiased first source actually says what is being claimed, and thus it is not obvious to me whether or not this is notable and/or a reliable representation of scholarly consensus. Valid encyclopedia topics exist independent of who created them but so do hoaxes, fringe distortions and outright nonsense, and when the user is known for more of the latter than the former, it is perhaps best to err on the side of exclusion - if it really is a valid topic someone else will recreate it anyhow. Agricolae (talk) 05:40, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I could see all the pages that contained "Yunatsite" in that book. The pages I saw confirm the first sentence in the article, that Yunatsite was an early urban settlement in Bulgaria.

The second source is the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences. Your characterization of that source is way off base. We have an article on it, go see for yourself. It is definitely a reliable source.

Judge each article on its merits, not by who wrote it. ~Amatulić (talk) 07:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

My characterization of the Bulgarian Academy source was that it could be reliable or it could be nationalistic. That can hardly be way off, as it pretty much covers the full range (except for definitely unreliable). The WP page on the society doesn't help. Unfortunately, some of these national societies are prone to POV interpretations favoring their own country. I remember a situation about six months ago when a seemingly-respectable national organization in Iran was interpreting discoveries at an Iranian archaeological site in a manner claiming the first this and the first that, completely at odds with the interpretation in international publications. For this reason when seeing a 'first' claim, even from an otherwise respected national society, I will always view it with a grain of salt unless the claim is repeated in a reliable independent (out-of-country) source. If this really is the first settlement in Europe, someone in the international archaeological community outside of Bulgaria should have called it that. Agricolae (talk) 16:22, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I've had exactly the same problem. I removed speedy-delete tags from around ten articles, which in my opinion, certainly have (sourced) claims to notability worth discussing. Agricolae responded to me, and the discussion is on-going (at least, I think). Dougweller (talk · contribs), however, chose to delete all of the articles without any regard for content, and in clear violation of this from WP:BAN: "If editors other than the banned editor have made good-faith contributions to the page or its talk page, it is courteous to inform them that the page was created by a banned editor, and then decide on a case-by-case basis what to do." 124.148.212.42 (talk) 11:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Fascinating accusation. Now who would accuse me of something I didn't do? Why the assumption it was me? And frankly, with a banned sock creating multiple socks and huge numbers of articles, case by case doesn't work unless there have been major edits by established editors. Bedson has stated that he is going to continue to sock and create articles unless he is unblocked. The proper response to that is to delete his articles. I left some redirects, red links, etc. But this targeting me as the Admin deleting all the articles is suspicious. Dougweller (talk) 13:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

My particular focus was on your deletion of Exorcism of the Pentagon, to which I had added new material and categories and linked to the other articles, as well as posting on the article's talk page. And what do you mean accusing you of something you didn't do? Unless someone else was using your username to delete the articles...? 124.148.212.42 (talk) 14:00, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

It's hard to misunderstand "chose to delete all of the articles". Most of the articles in question I didn't touch. But you've accused me of deleting them all. And I'd still like to know how you came across a set of unrelated articles all by one sock puppet and edited them. Dougweller (talk) 14:57, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, there's a story in itself. I was happily internet-ing when I stumbled across "Exorcism of the Pentagon", and I thought "gosh, this is quite an interesting article, what person has convinced themselves it is worthy of deletion?". From there, I proceeded to the article's history page, and thence to a list of Agricolae's contributions, subsequently proceeding to voice (and demonstrate) my opinions on the articles' perceived worthiness. I hope this explanation satisfies you. 124.148.212.42 (talk) 15:17, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

If you think the topic is valid, I would encourage you to pursue it - write an article on the subject and recommend its creation (or sign-in and create it yourself). Unfortunately, the banned user who created the original page has shown himself so completely devoid of scruples and scholarly rigor that he was kicked off the project by community consensus. Nothing he compiles can be trusted to be a verifiable and accurate representation of what the cited sources describe and the volume of his page creation practices makes it impracticable to research every article to determine which ones are verifiable and NPOV. As such, given that one never knows what among anything he has written is misinterpreted, distorted or outright made up, the project is better off if anything he has done is removed and any worthwhile page be started from scratch by another editor for whom good faith can still be assumed, such as yourself. (That is aside from the issue of encouraging the continued participation of the banned user by telling him, in effect, that the ban really doesn't apply as long as he writes about valid topics.) Agricolae (talk) 16:22, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

The idea that an article should be kept if it is considered acceptable, irrespective of whether it was created by a banned user, is a perfectly valid opinion. However, it has been discussed a number of times over the course of many years, and consensus is against it. When an editor is banned, that means that a decision has been reached that the damage done to the project caused by allowing that editor to remain outweighs any gains that may sometimes be made by doing so. There is a widespread view that, in such cases, allowing the editor to find that in practice they can simply get away with ignoring the ban and go on regardless is harmful. When a user has openly stated the intention of ignoring the ban and using sockpuppets to create articles, the need to convey the message "you will not get away with it" is even more pressing. Of course, any of us is free to hold a view contrary to accepted consensus and policy: I disagree with some of Wikipedia's policies. However, disagreeing is one thing, while deliberately acting against consensus because one disagrees with a policy is another. For an administrator to decline deletion requests on the basis of his or her personal opinions which are contrary to Wikipedia's policies is, in my opinion, unacceptable. As I have said, I disagree with some of Wikipedia's policies, but I never intentionally act in violation of policies or consensus, even when I disagree with them. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

As for Yunatsite, this is another example of Bedson's misuse of sources. The article calls it a town, one of his sources[10] specifically calls it a prototown, not the same thing. [11], his other source, calls it a village. Neither source mentions this first European civilization. Anyway, there are two sources which could be used to recreate it - but please don't go beyond the sources. And 'first prototown' needs attribution. Dougweller (talk) 15:54, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Then the appropriate response would be WP:SOFIXIT; that is, make the necessary minor corrections, not delete. I may just do this myself. ~Amatulić (talk) 00:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

No, the correct response was to delete it. Banned users love to show that they can still edit with impunity, create articles, etc. The more we let them get away with it, the more they do it. You're welcome to recreate it. Dougweller (talk) 06:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

The primary purpose here is to build a useful encyclopedia. Deleting worthwhile content conflicts with that goal.

It is trivially simple for an intelligent banned editor to create a new account and continue editing undetected; if the editor continues in a constructive way, there's no problem, and no reason to engage in witch-hunts and punishment. "The more we let them get away with it, the more they do it." So what? I'm all for it if the contributions are worthwhile. There is such a thing as redemption, after all. ~Amatulić (talk) 06:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

I repeat: that is a perfectly reasonable opinion, but it is contrary to policy formed by consensus, and the task of an administrator is to administer policy as it is, not as he or she wishes it were. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

And when policies conflict, one must exercise judgment about which one has precedence. ~Amatulić (talk) 08:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

And this editor was blocked for in large part for misuse of sources, remember? A number of editors spent a lot of time fixing his articles he created or edited. If you want him to be allowed to continue to create articles with impunity, or to force editors to examine all his articles to check to make sure they adhere to policy and guidelines, you're going to have to raise this at AN or ANI. Dougweller (talk) 12:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Your input is requested

Greetings, Amatulic! If we have not met, I'm AutomaticStrikeout. I've come here to ask you to take part in the survey at User:AutomaticStrikeout/Are admins interested in a RfB?. I am trying to gauge the general level of interest that administrators have in running for cratship, as well as pinpoint the factors that affect that interest level. Your input will be appreciated. Happy editing, AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 01:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Mistake

I did not make disruptive editing. I just corrected it, that's all. What I meant to put is husband and wife. - Bil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.239.155 (talk) 22:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Do you know for certain that's what the cited source says? ~Amatulić (talk) 22:56, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I do! It says that it is about men and women, so it is not only the women who have endured domestic violence, but the husbands, too! :-) -Bil

So now do you see what I mean? Nothing harmful, but just helping and contributing to the main page of Islam and Domestic Violence and article like that. Have a great day! -Bil

What is you're article of interest, Amatulic? -Bil

That's great. I wasn't able to verify it on Google Books (the cited page was hidden). Go ahead and make the change.

I apologize for the warning -- and thanks for taking the time to reach out to me and explain what you were trying to do. Remember to use the edit summary field to explain it to others. Often unexplained changes from anonymous IP addresses get reverted if no reason for the edit is given.

I have many articles of interest. You can see some of them on my user page. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Cool, great job, Amatulic! I understand that you were just trying to correct me, that is honest. You're welcome, and thank you for warning me in case you thought that I was doing a mistake. I checked my sources very well. O.K., and thanks again for you're help! -Bil

P.S.: My favorite kinds of articles are about Kurdish culture. -Bil

As per your suggestion,

I have submitted On the Rebound for MFD, your opinions are welcome here.--Launchballer 20:32, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

The Midnight's Dances

Hey, i see that The Midnight's Dances has been nominated for speedy deletion. If it is deleted, do you think you could resotre the article to my user space, like you did with the Exiled? Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 15:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

It hasn't been nominated for speedy deletion, it's been nominated for deletion. There's a big difference.

• A speedy deletion involves one person nominating the article and an admin agreeing, and deleting the article without further review.
• A WP:PROD, which is what this is, is a nomination by one person, but the nomination stays up until any other editor (including you) comes along and disagrees with it, and removes the tag. Whoever removes the tag ought to make some improvement to the article that addresses the issue raised in the nomination. If the tag stays up for 1 week, then an admin will come along and delete it.
• A WP:AFD is the formal deletion process that nominates the article for deletion, and deletion is subject to a 1-week discussion and community consensus, after which an admin will judge the consensus and take some action.

Personally, because that article is so short, I'd merge it with Night Wind and redirect The Midnight's Dances article there. I have no problem restoring it to your user space if it's deleted. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't notice that. I am just used to speedy deletion. Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 22:59, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

My page got deleted...

Hey Amatulic, I was creating a page called "Anja" for a singer. I did not have much information on her so i just put one sentence while I looked around in the web for her info when i got my page deleted. I'm new to Wikipedia so I don't know if i did something wrong. Please respond. ShadowPM (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You didn't do anything wrong.

If you're going to create a biography of a living person, it will get quickly deleted if it doesn't establish notability and it doesn't include any references to reliable sources. I highly recommend building the article in your sandbox (see the link at the top of the page, that's your sandbox), where you can work on it at your leisure without worrying about deletion. When you're satisfied, you can move it to main article space.

Also be aware of WP:MUSICBIO, which describes criteria a musician must meet before meriting an article on Wikipedia. If you need help with anything, let me know. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see and that helps out a lot. Thanks for the help Amatulić. I really appreciate it. And thanks for offering your help if I ever need it in the future also, because I think I will. ShadowPM (talk) 23:14, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Wedlock

No Im not kidding. It was listed as a good article because the same accounts that created the article flooded the GA review with socks. Look closer. Which source shows notability? duffbeerforme (talk) 13:53, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

You nominated the article as WP:CSD#G11. The sourcing is decent and the tone of the article is neutral. I saw no evidence of unambiguous promotion, therefore it did not qualify for speedy deletion. Take it to WP:AFD. ~Amatulić (talk) 14:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:24, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Answered. ~Amatulić (talk) 14:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

On a related note, I'd suggest using indefinite protection less often; we should reserve indefinite protection for only the worst cases, not lightly-trafficked articles. Regards, m.o.p 16:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

In most cases I set the protection duration as a function of how far back I see disruptive activity. If it appears to be an ongoing problem that a fixed duration won't solve, I set it to indef. In this case it was a nod to the speedy-delete nominator as an alternative to deletion, but as the ANI case indicates, my good intentions backfired. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:29, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

If I may offer an outside view, I think I see the failure of communication. D.b.f.m. used the edit summary "...created by a bunch of sockpuppets and promotional accounts"; you denied the CSD (correctly) with an "Are you kidding..." edit summary and then -- here is the misunderstanding I believe -- protected it with the edit summary "Seems to attract unwanted attention from vandals". Had you used the edit summary of "Seems to attract unwanted attention from sockpuppets and promotional accounts" I believe the misunderstanding would have been avoided. The combination of "Are you kidding..." and the misuse of the term "vandals" made me think you were attacking D.b.f.m., too. Rgrds. --64.85.214.83 (talk) 16:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, looking back on it, putting myself in dbfm's shoes, I would have thought the same thing. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Séan Walsh (poet)

Why does long-standing and multiple editors give an article, like Séan Walsh (poet) notability? Uberaccount (talk) 02:16, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't give anything notability. It's just a strike against speedy deletion. A speedy deletion nomination basically involves one person deeming an article deletable, and an admin agreeing. Multiple contributors making more than minor edits is evidence that the community has deemed the article keepable. In that case it's best to take the article to AFD, because speedy deletions should be unambiguously non-controversial.

If the article had been about some contemporary pop culture figure, I'd have been more inclined to delete it, but what swayed me to decline the speedy nomination were the dates, suggesting a possible historical significance. In that context the article appeared to be a reasonable stub that would best be merged into the article about the painting. ~Amatulić (talk) 02:36, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay! I nominated it for AfD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uberaccount (talk • contribs) 02:57, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Why did you delete No Pants Day?

Googling "No pants day" (with quotes) yields about 236,000 results

It really IS a legitimate article.

Try doing that before deciding a page has no importance, please

Google hits mean nothing. Find some reliable sources. The article didn't have any. In any case, due to its long history with many contributors, I restored the article and nominated it for deletion. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:19, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

There are dozens of articles about it from legitimate news sites.

Maybe they weren't cited in the page but it doesn't mean that it isn't a true sociological phenomenon. You had no reason to delete the page, instead you should have added the easily-findable references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.160.178.45 (talk) 21:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to add them. Maybe you should have thought of that during the long period the article existed, before it got deleted. Only 11 hits come up in a search of Google News, and of those, only one could be considered significant coverage in a reliable source. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not the author of the page and only visited it today because this is No Pants Day. I didn't know this day existed before today.

Seeing as how you deleted the page, I can not add any references.

Since you've admitted that there is at least one credible significant source for the article, I expect you will restore the page.

PS - Could you please paste the source link here, I promise I'll add it to the article.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.160.178.45 (talk) 21:48, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

?It was restored before you posted this comment. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi again,

Thanks for restoring the page. I added what I reasoned was a credible news source article. I hope that is correct. Please let me know if it should have been done differently or anything, thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.160.178.45 (talk) 22:19, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Needs more than one source, but one is better than none. You may want to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/No Pants Day (2nd nomination). ~Amatulić (talk) 22:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Sota Fujimori

Heya there, User:15joonp has once again created the article Sota Fujimori (third time). While he did add an infobox this time, I still feel it qualifies as CSD A7. This user kept removing speedy deletion templates in his previous attempts, saying the article is for a school project and should not be deleted. I'm not here to bit the newcomers but I don't think it being for a school project has any say against speedy deletion. I've contacted him before and told him what he needs to do, added maintenance templates as a guide, etc. I honestly feel bad for the guy. Should we just let it be for now? Thanks — MusikAnimal ^talk 17:17, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Microgrid Solar

You asked for answers to questions in relation to the Microgrid Solar page, here are my answers.

1. Who is "we"? That isn't a rhetorical question; please answer it. **We is my wife and myself** 2. You have not read, or you have not understood, Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You clearly have one. ** I have read Wikipedia: Conflict of Interest, and I wont pretend to fully understand the context of all the points but the issues it brings up do not apply to me and you are mistaken to think there is an apparent conflict of interst, I am neither paid, a direct employee or public pr agent, I am not writing about myself or close friends/family, I am not citing myself, I am not campaigning (if it reads promotional it is only due to the fact of listing interesting facts to establish notoriety with established sources), nor am I self-promoting. I am not looking to control the topic about this subject and honestly look forward to other who know more and have much more time then I do to duke it out over exactly what is the best way to present the organization in a balanced light. I am not a wikipedia pro needless to say and obviously but I do feel this is a organization that is notable where I live, done a great many things of note that is well documented with reliable sources and deserves to begin to be debated and listed on Wikipedia, either that or other companies who have done as much or less deserve to be removed, that I am not qualified to say but this organization has been all over the news and press in St. Louis, MO. They have added solar power to countless businesses (St. Louis Cardinals, Rams,Blues, Banks, Science Center and such) to Goverment Organizations (Army Bases, Offices, Schools) to many many residential homes. I am a fan of solar power and felt I could be the one to start this one page about solar power in St. Louis. I do not though meet the description of conflict of interest that page describes. 3. This organization is not notable in and of itself but has been covered by major news outlets, trade websites and journals, goverment organizations, municipal & corperate entities of major note. All of which I have begun listing and noting in as factual and fair way I can get across without placing filler as many pages do. 4. Again the statement that I have a conflict of interest is made and never stated exactly what of the many sub categories of conflict your asserting i have. I have a article of note that I am neither a close expert on to be of conflict but also not unknowledgeable about, I have an interest to start a page so others can help flesh out and I have more then and idea or just some sources, I have a number of sources, facts and media about the company that I am looking to put in place so that others can add without struggling through the plainly obvious work of establishing notoriety or lack of conflict of interest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Solarbox (talk • contribs) 22:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Ozzy Osbourne

Hello. This isn't a question about editing, but, since you mentioned you liked Balck Sabbath, i would like to know if you know if Ozzy used autotune back in the 70s & 80s? It's driving me nuts. Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 01:16, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If that's the thing described in our Auto-Tune article, then it's likely Ozzy didn't use it back then. According to the article, the first commercial recording made with Auto-Tune was in 1998. Does that help? ~Amatulić (talk) 01:39, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. NHCLS (talk) 23:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Breadth of market

I left my comments in the Talk section of this article. I would appreciate you help to improve that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hghlight (talk • contribs) 13:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

MACD

I left my comments in the Talk section of this article. I would appreciate you help to improve that article.

I have undid all my editions (on my opinion improvements). I could b a professional in technical analysis and technical indicators (15 years in professional research, several inventions, several articles in "Stock $ Commodities" and several articles in "Technical Analyst / London"), yet as I understand I new in Wikipedia editing. So, I appreciate you stopped me and most likely I will not do any editing for now. Still, the the "MACD" and "Breadth of market" articles are in quite bad condition. I left my comments on the "Talk" section of these articles. I would appreciate you take a look at it and correct these articles if you consider they should be corrected.

I do not want to take a lot of your time, just 2 additional points:

1. Technical analysis is not a sign and it does not guarantee future security price. Technical analysis is based on the assumptions which are based on the historical observations. According to the "Security Exchange Commission" and on my personal opinion there is should not be solicitation that any technical indicator guarantees future trend direction. Furthermore, anyone who write an article, make editing on technical analysis and technical indicators, on my opinion, should be very careful in using such words as "Buy", "Sell", "indicate security go up", "most popular", "most used" and etc. Especially, writers should be very careful in solicitation of any particular indicator's settings as those who read it and follow it may lose real money on the market. I saw those mistakes (on my opinion) numerous times in Wikipedia articles.

2. Most of the articles related to technical indicators are very specific in Wikipedia. I understand that they are based on the reliable sources published in 19th century. However, on my opinion everyone who write an article related to this topic should bear in mind that at that time, when computing technology was only in the beginning of its development, most of the technical indicators were calculated on the paper and based on daily data. Now we have different situation. I'm not telling that whatever was invented 50 years ago is incorrect please, understand me correctly. But it should not be narrowed to the conditions of 19th century and to what it was applied in the first place. Many statements I met, on my opinion, should be general in their nature as they could be applied to many things and not just to NYSE Exchange and not just to daily data and not just to stocks (there are other securities and commodities). I many cases on my opinion is is not enough to have 50 years old reliable sources on subjects which are used today and which are based on modern possibilities.

Please understand me correctly, I'm not trying to give you a lesson in technical analysis as I think you should be professional in it. I'm just hoping that when you edit articles related to technical analysis you pay more attention to the specifics and make corrections in the articles itself as well.

Please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~) so that others know who authored your comment.

I also have extensive experience in technical analysis, for 20+ years doing consultation for professionals who trade for a living, inventing proprietary indicators for them and for myself, and actively trading futures, stocks, and options in all time frames.

I have no problem with the improvements you made to the articles, and I wholeheartedly support the idea of improving MACD and rewriting the breadth article. You did not have to revert yourself those last couple of times.

Where I have a problem is that the single source you appear to favor (marketvolume) suggests a conflict of interest. The statements you cited from that website were recycled from more original or authoritative sources, which suggests that we should cite those sources instead. An academic publication, or a book by someone well-known in the field, are generally more acceptable as sources than a web page written by an anonymous author. Blogs, forums, other wikis, and press releases are generally the least acceptable. In most cases where you cited marketvolume, one can find something better, and I replaced them in some cases.

I agree also that the articles on technical analysis are generally a mess. I wrote a couple of them myself (listed on my user page).

However, there isn't really a problem with terminology (buy, sell, etc.) as long as we follow WP:NOTHOWTO (Wikipedia is not a how-to guide). Also, we can use those terms and phrases (security will go up, etc.) as long as we don't use them in Wikipedia's voice. That is, a Wikipedia article should never declare authoritatively how a market responds based on some indicator, but rather should describe the popular view, what others believe, the view of the indicator's creator, how experts use it, etc., all with proper attribution, so that Wikipedia is not in the position of giving advice or recommendations. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

sorry did not signed - a little bit new in wiki tags

At nowadays website could be the only source of original info. We may have different opinion about that but you may try to find who first mentioned and who first applied McClellan Oscillator formula to Advance-Decline Volume data. I agree it is obvious thing to do, but still who is the first who did it? ~Hghlight (talk) 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Regarding "nowadays website could be the only source of original info" -- see our policy Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, particularly the part that says Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. A tidbit of information published on one website and nowhere else is unlikely to merit inclusion in a Wikipedia article. An exception might be if the source that mentions it is regarded as reliable and authoritative, but even then, the failure of other sources to mention it suggests that Wikipedia need not mention it, either. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Pinot meunier

Hey Amatulic! I forgot about adding this article to the list of grape articles that needed their capitalization fix (mostly because I was focusing on the noir and blanc varieties). Since "Meunier" is not a color descriptor it should be capitalized. Is this something that you can take care of or do I need to put in an RM? Agne^Cheese/^Wine 02:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Done. There's a lot of cleanup to do, between 50-100 redirects to the old lowercase name. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Appreciate it! I planning on chipping away at that. My summer project is to get our grape articles up to snuff and consistent in titling and format. That includes fixing redirects as well as creating all missing articles for grape varieties that have a color descriptor in their name so they are consistent before someone accidentally creates it under the wrong name. It's a chore but I'll get there. Thanks again! Agne^Cheese/^Wine 17:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Re. Dimethylsulfidemia

Will do. Thanks, Lesion (talk) 13:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

My user page keeps getting blanked

My user page is once again the center of controversy. It has been blanked repeatedly, as you can see here and here. Anything you can recommend? Kauffner (talk) 16:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Not sure what can be done short of fully-protecting your page, which would prevent you from editing it. (The only fully-protected user page I know of is User:TheRedPenOfDoom because he wants it to be redlinked.) I've always firmly believed that semi-protection should be the default for all user pages, but that wouldn't help in your case either.

I don't view what you wrote is an attack page as characterized by the blankers. However, at the same time I can't help noting that your page is in conflict with Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not (it isn't a place to be writing personal blog articles or editorials, which is basically what you've done), as well as violating the spirit of WP:UPNO.

I suggest you keep essays in sub-pages and use your user page as a general page of information about your activities and interests on Wikipedia, and include a directory of links to your essays. That would prevent getting people riled up over policy violations while allowing you to write essays. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:34, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The guideline says, "personal essays on topics relating to Wikipedia are welcome in your user namespace." Kauffner (talk) 17:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

They are, but not necessarily on your user page. I don't personally object to that essay, but I can see how others might interpret the policies I linked in that way. My compromise suggestion above, I believe, will allow you to maintain essays like these in your own name space, without inviting the vandalismblanking you've experienced as a result of posting them directly on your user page. Your user page can link to them. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Amatulic, you should know better than to call it "vandalism". Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I call it as I see it. Sometimes what appears as vandalism is done in good faith, as is the case here. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• This issue is at BLP now. I created a subpage, per the advise above, but that's been deleted. I am hoping this goes all the way to Arbcom, or where ever this sort of thing goes. Kauffner (talk) 03:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Plenty of cat pee to go around

Au contraire mon ami! Whenever I get around to finally writing Sulfur compounds in wine, that will likely be the hook I go with. It seems like it may be good fodder for an April Fool's Day hook. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 07:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the help!Truth-seeker2004 (talk) 19:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Amiram Goldblum

Hello! There's been some discussion at ANI about this page, which you protected.[12] Some new information has emerged there about the material's veracity and it seems that there is some fair bit of consensus that the disputed section should be removed pending confirmation and consensus, especially as it is a BLP. Would you like to comment or act on it yourself? If we don't hear from you soon, and given it is a BLP, I will probably take it out myself.--Slp1 (talk) 01:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Just to let you know that I ended up removing the section.--Slp1 (talk) 02:12, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't agree with that action, and I don't see the BLP violation, but I won't restore the text either. The text was fairly well sourced, and the objections to it appeared to be based on one editor's personal perception of what was implied by the phrasing of the text, plus seemingly personal recollections of the event that aren't sourced anywhere, combined with a personal grudge (accompanied by personal attacks) against another editor. Now that it's gone, there is no incentive to propose modifications or improvements while the protection is active. ~Amatulić (talk) 03:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The text was not "fairly well sourced". Have a close look at the source: it isn't even clear that it was Goldblum they called a "PLO supporter" (in that instance there is reference only to a "prominent peace activist"). There was an obvious lack of consensus for the addition, and in consideration of BLP and WP:PREFER the article should have been protected only in conjunction with removal of the contentious material. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 04:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

hi editors in question - it seems that there is much going on 'behind the backs' of editors (or least not being very open, honest and transparent). here is a message i left on slp1's talk page as well:

i left a note on the goldblum talk expressing my concerns on your removal of information from the goldblum article. right after i did that, user:Nomoskedasticity (i have put him in wikilinks so he will know this is being written) told me to 'look further down', but i was clueless as to what he meant, so i asked him. he explained that at the ani board, there was indeed discussion of the edit in question.

i found it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=555452124#Please_remove_defamatory_content_from_a_BLP_currently_under_full_protection

of course, Nomoskedasticity is the one who brought it there, but alas, neglected to inform the editor who placed the edit in question in the first place (me) and neglected to inform other editors who are involved in that edit's history. i am pretty sure that ani rules say you must inform them, no? so how can a decision be made without input from relevant parties? and lastly, is this sanctionable? user Nomoskedasticity is constantly being rude, using foul language and threatening. i read npa carefully, but it doesn't seem sanctionable, either. what to do? Soosim (talk) 08:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I didn't mention any other editor and didn't ask for sanctions against an editor; the only concern was content of a protected page. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:40, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for being agreeable about this, Amatulic. I want to assure you, I didn't do remove it lightly, but the new information given at ANI cast some doubt on the veracity of the whole story and seemed to tip it over the balance for a couple of other editors and administrators as well as myself. BTW, I actually have a completely different experience to you about the motivation to find a consensus. I usually find that it is higher with the material out of the article. As you say, it is a reliable source, so it can't really be argued that it can't be included in any form, but those who want it included are motivated to respond to specific reservations to get consensus about the exact form. And I can already see that Soosim has made some great strides in this direction, which is fantastic.Slp1 (talk) 12:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I do agree that the burden is on the person who wants to add material to support its addition. I certainly hope it works out as your experience suggests. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:56, 17 May 2013 (UTC)