Talk:Alvin Chipmunk (cartoon character)

Redirect target

To all the editors who "fixed" this redirect previously, I would like to point out that the purpose of the redirect is to indicate the default stage name of Ross Bagdasarian, Jr. It is not a repository for the mythology of the television program Alvin and the Chipmunks. That is why the name of the page is titled Alvin CHIPMUNK and not Alvin SEVILLE. --What about a squirrel? (talk) 21:59, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a cooperatively written encyclopedia, not your personal webpage. We operate by consulting reliable sources and seeking consensus.

If you have evidence that the primary meaning of Alvin Chipmunk is this person, please present it, and I'm sure other editors will support you. But from the current contents of the article about him, it seems a highly soapy claim. See also WP:NPOV.

Failing such evidence, I intend to revert this redirect to point again to Alvin Seville, matching both those in place for Simon Chipmunk and Theodore Chipmunk, and the opinions of the majority of the contributors who have edited it. Andrewa (talk) 23:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. Please discuss if you wish to take the matter further. Andrewa (talk) 02:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Curiouser and curiouser: User:Sk'py Skwrrrl has now moved this page (and this talk page) from Alvin Chipmunk to Alvin Chipmunk (cartoon character) [1], leaving a double redirect which I have now fixed [2]. No attempt at discussion, unless I've missed it somewhere, and it's a bit unusual to move redirect pages at all. I'll send him a note on his talk page. Andrewa (talk) 23:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC) Done [3]. Andrewa (talk) 23:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Two more similar [4] [5], each seems to achieve nothing other than each creating a double redirect. I'll leave another note on his talk page. Andrewa (talk) 11:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC) Done [6]. Andrewa (talk) 11:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

See #Need for DAB below. Andrewa (talk) 02:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

From the page history

Redirect was created in 2006 by User:Sk'py Skwrrrl, pointing to Ross Bagdasarian, Jr..

User:Akendall (now inactive) changed it to point to The Chipmunks in 2007. Sk'py Skwrrrl changed it back two days later.

User:BD2412 change it to point to Alvin Seville (character) in 2010.

I changed it to point to Alvin Seville as part of the cleanup after the recent move of that article from Alvin Seville (character). Sk'py Skwrrrl then changed it back to point to Ross Bagdasarian, Jr., and posted the comment above which started this discussion.

So we have three editors (including myself) with no particular axe to grind all pointing it to the then-current article on Alvin Seville. In view of this, Sk'py Skwrrrl needs to provide some evidence IMO. Andrewa (talk) 23:36, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

This of course refers to the page history of Alvin Chipmunk, as do most of the contents of this talk page so far. The history and the talk page were both moved here for reasons currently unknown. Andrewa (talk) 23:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Stage name

The article currently at Ross Bagdasarian, Jr. makes no mention of his using Alvin Chipmunk as a stage name, as claimed [7] [8] in the edit summaries of Sk'py Skwrrrl's reverts. Evidence?

If this can be substantiated, then we'll need to have a two-way disambiguation. My suggestion would still be that this title should redirect to Alvin Seville, but we would then have a hatnote there pointing out its use as a stage name, and pointing to the article at Ross Bagdasarian, Jr.. We would then also need to mention it in the lead of that latter article. Andrewa (talk) 23:50, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Best not to move back

While the move of this talk page and the redirect it describes from from Alvin Chipmunk to Alvin Chipmunk (cartoon character) makes no sense that I can see, it's probably best not to reverse it, that just makes it even harder to sort out what happened.

But as it stands, the initial comment To all the editors who "fixed" this redirect previously... at the top of the page reads very strangely indeed. The irony of this being, it's signed by the same user who later moved it here! Although perhaps the signature makes that less than obvious at first glance. Andrewa (talk) 23:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I've put a note at Talk:Alvin Chipmunk directing discussion concerning that page here, to try to minimise reinventing the wheel. Andrewa (talk) 17:03, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Need for DAB

(Heading added - doesn't really seem part of the "Best not to move back" section. Andrewa (talk) 02:32, 25 January 2011 (UTC))

There is a need for DAB if anyone other than Ross Bagdasarian, Jr., such as Justin Long, voices Alvin in the movies in spite of Ross Jr.'s ongoing recording career. Same for Steve Vining vs. Matthew Gray Gubler as Simon and Janice Karman vs. Jesse McCartney as Theodore. I do wish the editors of Wikipedia would default-set the main Chipmunk page to the Chipmunks as a recording entity and not the Chipmunks as an animated licensed property, such as yourself. --What about a squirrel? (talk) 22:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

A disambiguation page is only necessary if a single term is ambiguous, and so may refer to more than one topic which Wikipedia covers (WP:DAB). Do you really think these names are ambiguous? We don't for example have a Mickey Mouse (disambiguation) page listing the voice actors who have provided the voice of Mickey Mouse over the years, although they included Walt Disney, Jimmy MacDonald, Wayne Allwine and Bret Iwan, all for significant periods during which they all became identified to some extent with the character.

I'm sure that the other editors of Wikipedia, like myself, just want Wikipedia to be as accurate and informative as possible. If you can make a case that this is the best way to see this subject, then we'll do it. Andrewa (talk) 02:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

(For those coming in late, the above appears to be a rationale for these three moves [9][10][11] whose usefulness and edit summaries I have queried above. Andrewa (talk) 02:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC))

From the post above: I do wish the editors of Wikipedia would default-set the main Chipmunk page to the Chipmunks as a recording entity and not the Chipmunks as an animated licensed property, such as yourself. I'm sure I don't know what this means. I don't see the issue, nor am I aware of having taken a stand either way. Andrewa (talk) 06:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Because the Chipmunks were established as a band first, which is what distinguishes Alvin from Mickey, and the phrase Alvin and the Chipmunks did not come into proper use until after the second Chipmunk television show was first broadcast. That is the distinction I am making, and one you shouldn’t forget. Hence the need for DAB in this case, and not Mickey Mouse’s. I DO see your point, thouagh. Thank you for your response.--What about a squirrel? (talk) 21:43, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I can see no connection between this distinction and the question of whether a DAB is required. Andrewa (talk) 07:10, 26 January 2011 (UTC)