Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2008 September 17

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was:

Deleted.  Orphaned, with none wanting keep. WilyD 12:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Putrescine-structure.png

Image:Putrescine-structure.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Sverdrup (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, replaced by Image:Diaminobutane.png. JaGa^talk 01:49, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Checked, can be deleted. Cacycle (talk) 02:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was:

Deleted.  Orphaned, replaced. WilyD 12:46, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Tromsoe i norge.gif

Image:Tromsoe i norge.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by UtherSRG (notify | contribs).

Orphaned image with higher quality version on Commons (Image:Troms kart.png). - AWeenieMan (talk) 02:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Quench.GIF

Image:Quench.GIF (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nuklear (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, low quality, confusing notation JaGa^talk 04:16, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:QuinineRabeKindlerII.png

Image:QuinineRabeKindlerII.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by V8rik (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, replaced by Image:QuinineRabeKindlerIIRev.png, which fixes a structure error. JaGa^talk 04:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Rimexolone.png

Image:Rimexolone.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mark PEA (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, replaced by Image:Rimexolone structure.png, which corrects missing stereochemistry. JaGa^talk 04:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Snowcane.gif

Image:Snowcane.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nuklear (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, low res; originally for a section of Nocaine that was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SNDRI - now, unlikely to be used elsewhere since it doesn't depict an actual chemical. JaGa^talk 04:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:SnowcaneNR2.gif

Image:SnowcaneNR2.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nuklear (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, low res; originally for a section of Nocaine that was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SNDRI - unlikely to be used elsewhere since it doesn't depict an actual chemical. JaGa^talk 04:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Snocaine.gif

Image:Snocaine.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nuklear (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, low res; originally for a section of Nocaine that was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SNDRI - unlikely to be used elsewhere since it doesn't depict an actual chemical. JaGa^talk 04:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Sodium chlorate.png

Image:Sodium chlorate.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by IMeowbot (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, replaced by higher res Image:Sodium-chlorate.png. JaGa^talk 04:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Sulpiride.png

Image:Sulpiride.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Fuzzform (notify | contribs).

Orphaned, replaced by higher res Image:Sulpiride-skeletal.png. JaGa^talk 05:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Septimus Heap.jpg

Image:Septimus Heap.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Legolas2186 (notify | contribs).

Either the copyrigh note is true; then it's unencyclopedic fan art. Or the note is wrong; then it's likely a copyrighted image without a fair use rationale. Huon (talk) 09:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Evodom Logo.png

Image:Evodom Logo.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by I Am The Namer (notify | contribs).

Blatantly unfree image claimed as GFDL-CC, no indication of claim on image page. MBisanz ^talk 14:16, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:IPU2.png

Image:IPU2.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Treec (notify | contribs).

A unauthorised derivative of the non-free Wikimedia logo, in flagrant violation of wikimedia:Wikimedia visual identity guidelines. I have no doubht it was intended as a harmles joke as stated, but it should still go. Sherool (talk) 15:49, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Rexintro.png

Image:Rexintro.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Rex_Germanus (notify | contribs).

Unused derivative of the Wikipedia logo. Sherool (talk) 16:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Beer pong shots.png

Image:Beer pong shots.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by StableChaos (notify | contribs).

This is a prank or joke, there is no such thing as a "loopty loop" throw. AW (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Commons image showing through. -Nv8200p talk 20:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Cathine.png

Image:Cathine.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Russell E (notify | contribs).

Low resolution chemical structure image superseded by Image:Pseudonorephedrine.png. - AWeenieMan (talk) 17:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Soviet republics.jpg

Image:Soviet republics.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kpalion (notify | contribs).

Low quality JPG version of map with higher quality version in alternate image format (PNG) available on Commons (Image:USSR Republics Numbered Alphabetically.png). - AWeenieMan (talk) 17:46, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Logoko.gif

Image:Logoko.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bantilan (notify | contribs).

Not quite sure what this is supposed to be, but it's not used and appear to be unensyclopedic. Sherool (talk) 18:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Lookingup.jpg

Image:Lookingup.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ungtss (notify | contribs).

Unused personal photo. Sherool (talk) 18:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Lu_logo122.jpg

Image:Lu_logo122.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kroche14 (notify | contribs).

Unused logo, supposedly "created at home", but I figure it's either not ensyclopedic or not actualy PD if it's an accurate representation of a real logo. Sherool (talk) 18:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Bran2.jpg

Image:Bran2.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Myosotis Scorpioides (notify | contribs).

This is not a logo. ViperSnake151 20:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Palin nowhere.jpg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was: Withdrawn by nominator - OTRS permission has been submitted.

--Kelly ^hi! 13:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image fails several parts of WP:NFCC - ~~it's not found at the given source, the copyright holder is not identified,~~These problems have been fixed. it's replaceable by a free photo of Sarah Palin (of which we have dozens of photos), and it's not needed for the reader to understand anything that can't be explained equally well with text or a free photo.

Strong Keep In Kelly's argument, he incorrectly claims that this Fair Use copyright confirmed image with the source of http://www.andrewhalcro.com/files/FH000020.jpg has no sort of copyright, and does not exist at the source. Furthermore, he thinks it would be just as easy to replace this image with "any" image of Palin. That again is a flawed argument, as it assumes that this image was a generic depiction; it was not. It was a specific, exclusive themed event that she put herself in, and is impossible to recreate the image's cited context with an alternate image of her.

Per the WP:NFCC policy claim: I just proved there is no free equivalent. It is not likely to replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media. The one image adheres to minimal use. It has been published outside Wikipedia and has content relevant to Gravina Island Bridge. The image adheres to WP:IUP policy. The event is significant and notable, because it directly contradicts Sarah Palin's claims to have opposed the bridge. So much, in fact, that this last week Charlie Gibson questioned her on the t-shirt during her interview with him. It only exists within an article, and fair use rationale has been provided. Therefore it fully adheres to WP:NFCC There are absolutely no grounds for deletion here. Duuude007 (talk) 22:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Duuude, see WP:NFCC#8. How does this image significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic in a way words, or a free image, cannot? Also, per WP:NFCC#10a, the copyright holder needs to be identified, it's not. Kelly ^hi! 23:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The imace copyright holder has been mentioned as the source, under the fair use policy. This image proves what hearsay cannot, because it is historical evidence. That is why mere words do not cut it. Duuude007 (talk) 23:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Um, Wikipedia doesn't exist to "prove" anything, but to be a free encyclopedia. If the event is verifiable via a reliable source, can't the picture be replaced with text that says "At <event>, Palin held up a T-shirt with the words "<whatever the T-shirt says>"? Kelly ^hi! 23:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Omitting the only image of relevance in the Gravina Island Bridge would weaken the rating of the article. This alone should be a valid argument. Furthermore, this image directly conveys perspective that the text in the article's paragraph alone cannot, because the campaign team is typically so careful about image discipline. A picture speaks 1000 words, and the summary posted alone simply wouldn't cut it. This same rule has been applied to numerous images of note, this showing Palin in a situation conveying her support of guns & the military, and this, showing her speech at the convention tied to the paragraph of her accepting the nomination. Under your argument, these should now also be deleted, because as an encyclopedia, text should be the only thing necessary to convey information. I disagree with this flawed logic, as it lessens the overall value of the information conveyed. Duuude007 (talk) 00:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The other images you point to are free images, not copyrighted as this one is. Kelly ^hi! 01:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who is the copyright holder of this image? Hobartimus (talk) 01:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Halcro, previous competitor to Palin in the gubernatorial election. All the info is linked in the image's page. Duuude007 (talk) 01:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See http://www.andrewhalcro.com/andrew_halcro_biography. ~~However, it appears that Mr. Halcro may be the gentleman seated next to Gov. Palin in the photo. Compare photos here with the photo in question.~~ Who took the picture? --Evb-wiki (talk) 01:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On closer examination, the two men do not appear to be the same guy. --Evb-wiki (talk) 02:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The more important issue is that the photo fails WP:NFCC#8 and is replaceable by text. Kelly ^hi! 01:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

your claim of "fails NFCC" doesn't hold water. I have thoroughly listed why already. Text simply doesnt cut it, and you are simply wanting to censor an image for the sake of what it does convey that the text does not, which you claim is not true. I have caught you in this, and you are now repeating the same statement like a broken record as if saying it enough times will make it true. Fortunately, it will not. By the way, This is Andrew Halcro, not the man sitting in that picture, campaigning with Palin at her table (see the bumper stickers). Duuude007 (talk) 02:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't we ask the copyright holder is he will be willing to release that photo to the public domain? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We can do that, and I have already contacted him on that matter. But uder Wikipedia:Fair Use policy, this image is already confirmed by Wikipedia as useable media. The copyright would simply put a rubber stamp on the fair use we are already allowed to have, and allow us to go beyond that and copy it for use at any other site. As it is now, Fair use authorizes us to use this image for any article in Wikipedia, so long as it fits the context and consensus therein. Duuude007 (talk) 02:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously we disagree about whether the image satisfies WP:NFCC#1 and WP:NFCC#8, it'll be up to the closing admin to decide. Kelly ^hi! 02:29, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is not replaceable by a free photo of Palin, because none other has such a specific context tied to the article. Fair Use can supercede lack of immediate access to copyright in this case because this image is low-resolution and depicts an event of importance in the United States presidential election, 2008. It is purported to show a candidate's support for a project she later claimed she opposed. As such it has historic value and cannot be replaced by a free image. This free use justification applies to its use in the articles Sarah Palin, the person depicted, and Gravina Island Bridge, the project in question. Note 99901 is a postal zip code for Ketchikan, Alaska where the bridge was to be built. Duuude007 (talk) 02:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why can't the fact that she initially supported the bridge be stated in text? Actually, it looks like that is already very thoroughly explained and sourced in the article. Also, we don't operate under fair use laws here at Wikipedia, but under the more-restrictive non-free content policy. Kelly ^hi! 03:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sure its more restrictive, but the stipulation of copyright that you are challenging me on has a Fair use clause built into that same NFC policy, step 10, which further backs up my argument. Specifically:

“

A detailed fair use rationale. A separate, specific rationale must be provided each time the image is used in an article. The name of the article the image is used in must be included in the rationale.

”

This image has adhered to this stipulation, so your NFC argument falls apart. Duuude007 (talk) 04:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete can be replaced with the text Palin wore a black top with "Nowhere Alaska 99901" printed on it which would serve to same purpose and convey the same information (NFCC 1). CIreland (talk) 04:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I found the copyright holder. In the Sept. 15 issue of Newsweek ("Palin-tol-olgy"), I saw the same picture on p.34, labeled "courtesy of Bob Weinstein". So I guess Mr. Halcro isn't the owner after all. Oh, and Strong Keep, it's in magazines, on the news, Gibson interview, etc., etc. --JaGa^talk 05:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it's a news agency photo, then it fails WP:NFCC#2 as well. Kelly ^hi! 06:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't a news agency photo. I found the proper copyright attribution in Newsweek; Newsweek doesn't own it. --JaGa^talk 06:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as stated this is replacable by text, just add <ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.andrewhalcro.com/the_bridge_to_somewhere |title=The real politics of the Bridge to Nowhere.... |accessdate=2008-09-18 |author= Andrew Halcro|date= |work= |publisher= Andrew Halcro's blog}}</ref> (and whatever other sources that reference it) next to is as "proof". --Sherool (talk) 11:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per JaGa who found the original copyright owner who sold the right to print the photo to Newsweek, publishing the picture here would damage "Bob Weinstein" copyright holder's ability to market the picture in a commercial way especially now that the picture is in demand. This is not a case where the picture was marketed for decades it's really only a few days since there was intrest in it. Hobartimus (talk) 11:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete "holding a t-shirt" doesn't get around NFCC 1, which is the critical point. Also NFCC 8--this is completely replaceable by text. Protonk (talk) 14:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are reading into that idea far too literally. If you go by such a context, then we fail to improve the encyclopedia, and the quality of the article is lessened, because then it would have zero images, instead of one. See WP:BURO And if 2 major news organizations talk about the t-shirt, it is definitely significant. Duuude007 (talk) 14:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I disagree that the image is replacable by text. Cacophony (talk) 18:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is an important part of history. I disagree that the image is replacable by text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marjmandi (talk • contribs) 18:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I would agree that the picture is not replacable by text. Grsz ^talk 18:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
;) and let me follow up that I just got off the phone with Bob Weinstein, mayor of Ketchikan, and confirmed that he has emailed unlimited copy and edit permissions of the t-shirt image. This is officially free content. Hows about that? Duuude007 (talk) 20:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cool - did you pass the licensing information to OTRS? Which license did he issue it under? Kelly ^hi! 20:26, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It will be coded Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license, I just forwarded the email to the site listed. Thanks for the link. Duuude007 (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The picture shows her enthusiasm for the project and the bridge. Words can't do that. Kendrick S.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Olyarcher2 (talk • contribs) 02:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep 'A picture is worth a thousand words', most of us agree on this, I think. This harmless image is part of the history of the bridge, and therefore I think it should stay here in context with the bridge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.200.231.112 (talk) 12:23, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep if proper license has been obtained. --Evb-wiki (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Germany wappen.jpg

Image:Germany wappen.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Elizabeth A (notify | contribs).

Orphaned image with higher quality version in alternate image format (SVG) available on Commons (Image:Coat of Arms of Germany.svg). If a raster image is needed, a PNG should be created from the SVG. - AWeenieMan (talk) 21:49, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Seamonkey_2.0_Pre-Alpha.png

Image:Seamonkey_2.0_Pre-Alpha.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wikinerd2000 (notify | contribs).

Replaceable screenshot on Windows XP with Wikipedia logo. O sama K 22:50, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MIRC_6.31_Screenshot.png

Image:MIRC_6.31_Screenshot.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wikinerd2000 (notify | contribs).

Used in Internet Relay Chat. There is already a free screenshot for XChat, I see no reason to use this copyrighted screenshot. O sama K 22:52, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]