Talk:Voice of Reason - Afroditi Latinopoulou

Far right labelling.

There have been multiple repeated attempts to brand Voice of Reason as a "far right" party with few substantial evidence other than some opinion pieces from mostly liberal or socialist oriented Greek newspapers. Please stop trying to project your own opinions into an article that tries to be as factual as possible. The Voice of Reason party manifesto itself is almost entirely a copy of other conservative and right wing populist parties in Europe, so it's unreasonable to label it as anything else. 2A02:214C:8757:AF00:A1AC:8742:4B6B:F858 (talk) 12:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

ccing @Wiiformii - I believe you have been deceived or manipulated here. Could you please revert the edit? The IP address involved has been consistently lying in the edit summaries, pushing a narrative aligned with the party or displaying right-wing views that contradict their supposed stance. They removed five sources supporting the claim that the party is far-right, replacing them with a single source stating it is merely right-wing. The sources they removed are some of the most reputable newspapers in Greece, all of which are conservative. Proto Thema [1] and Kathimerini [2] have he largest circulations, while LIFO and Press Project are both respected media outlets in the country. Same applies for To Vima which backs the claim as well.The most egregious removal is an academic peer-reviewed article published in the Journal of Contemporary Central and Eastern Europe. Even the last remaining source they left for the right-wing label clearly states: "Aphrodite Latinopoulou has secured the most votes in her far-right party Voice of Reason." This demonstrates that the anonymous user has been repeatedly lying about the sources and the clearly substantiated discussion. Can you please restore the article to its previous state and ensure that any further discussions and sources are brought to the talk page? This behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. 87.203.204.21 (talk) 07:08, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

What is unacceptable is using opinion pieces of non existent journalistic integrity to label an entire political party's position. All of the sources that were mentioned above are not news articles but opinionated pieces from journalists who directly contradict Voice of Logic's own positions. The article was justly locked due to incessant vandalism from anonymous users. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 11:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You keep spewing lies to support your obvious bias and likely connection to the party. First, you called those articles "liberal websites," which was debunked with sources. Now you're claiming they're opinion pieces, another blatant lie. Care to point out exactly which parts are op-eds and back up your claims?

Michalis1994 (talk) 12:30, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

One of the sources is a website literally called Liberal.gr I don't think I need to explain further on that. Also I have am neither a supporter of this party nor am I a conservative. It's just very dangerous to label every single political party to the right of center "far right" with little to no reasoning, since the term will inevitably lose its meaning. The article as of right now isn't a friendly or a whitewashing one towards the party's attitudes anyway. It correctly places Voice of Reason to the right of New Democracy and less right wing than parties like Greek Solution or Spartans. I think the bias is on you my friend. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 12:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You are still lying! None of the sources you removed mentioned liberal.gr. Can you show me exactly where you saw the use of the website liberal.gr with edits/diffs? Since you claim to be unbiased while accusing me of bias, can you show me which sources state that the party is not far-right and is labelled as right-wing? Your version of the article whitewashes the true identity of Voice of Reason because your bias has resulted in personal opinions being used to conceal essential information. The previous version will be restored unless you provide sources to support your extremely dubious claims. Michalis1994 (talk) 13:08, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Lying? This https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/25739638.2023.2228066 article with its so called "peer reviewed" legitimacy cites liberal.gr as one of its own sources (not to mention again the opinion pieces) Even when the source is a conservative newspaper, the article being an opinion piece instead of reporting should immediately discard it as a reputable source. But from what I am seeing, the article was for some reason once again reverted, so literally every party to the right of center-center right New Democracy is now identified as far-right, an ideological position which is commonly associated with the actual National Socialist Nazis of Germany in the 30's and Mussolini's fascists. Another victory for the impartiality of Wikipedia I suppose. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 13:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

This is getting utterly embarrassing. You're trying to discredit an academic analysis from a peer-reviewed journal without even bothering to read it. The analysis includes a qualitative examination of around 13 news articles promoting xenophobia, including one from liberal.gr that's part of the empirical data. It's not a citation within the article at all! Your behaviour suggests either deliberate deceit or a serious lack of awareness. As for your arguments, they reek of bias. Mussolini's fascists and the Nazis were integral to authoritarian regimes. Just because you're peddling the notion that Latinopoulou and her party aren't far-right doesn't mean reputable sources will buy it. We rely on evidence here. So, I'll ask once more: do you have any credible sources to back your claim that the party isn't far-right? And one final, exhausting question: are you in any way connected to the party? Michalis1994 (talk) 14:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I'll do you one better. Give me your arguments as to how the Voice of Reason party is at the same level as other historically "Far-right" parties like ones mentioned in the first paragraph of the related wikipedia article (Fascist/Nazi parties). If you give me an actual way they compare in both policy and political violence (both of which are fundamentals of far right or far left ideology), I will accept the edit and no longer bother editing it. Also you're asking me if I'm affiliated with the party but I just said I am not even a conservative, but you are clearly a very radically progressive left individual, which shows from the way you defend this travesty of a political article. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 14:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I've finished here - your edits have been reverted by three different users. Continuing to remove sourced content without justification may lead to a ban. Please provide sources or refrain from personal attacks. As for the rest, I recommend consulting credible sources and avoiding baseless assertions.

Michalis1994 (talk) 14:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Isnt the page literally under the topic "far right political parties in Greece" Takis S1 (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Yep... Michalis1994 (talk) 19:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You're delusional, I haven't even been able to edit for a day and you're threatening me with a ban for edits that I can't even do haha. This site has fallen into disrepute I swear. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 01:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with your point of view. And since I will be working on the article in a few days to improve it as it has essentially no content but only defamatory name-calling if you make an account we could work on it together. To give you an idea about my participation, I am currently editing the article of Afroditi Latinopoulou. P.S. I am Greek 😊 D.S. Lioness (talk) 02:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Let's see how this goes! Michalis1994 (talk) 07:35, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Voice of Logic/Voice of Reason

I noticed that it's more of a direct translation but politico which is a very prestigious site calls it "Voice of Reason" so why is this page called otherwise? Takis S1 (talk) 11:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree, Voice of Reason is a more direct and accurate translation. 2A02:587:5468:2800:89C9:BE34:1274:4C91 (talk) 11:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Party name

@Takis S1 Hi. I noticed that you changed the name of this page to "Voice of Reason - Afroditi Latinopoulou". However, I think we should use the common name of the party, similar to Tisza Party (TISZA – Respect and Freedom Party), Syriza (Coalition of the Radical Left – Progressive Alliance), Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht (Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance – Reason and Justice). So I suggest changing the name of the page to "Voice of Reason (political party)". The current page title can be left as a redirect (but please change the dash in the title to "–").  PLATEL  (talk) 05:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, i completely agree, I kept the dash only because it was in the previous name Takis S1 (talk) 07:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I came to say broadly the same thing, because to say I was confused when I noticed that there’s an article on a person and then an article on this political party which contains the person’s name is an understatement. From a quick search the party is named with the leader’s name in English sometimes (not sure if this is because there are multiple parties or what) but on their official website it’s clear their leader’s name is to be a subtitle, rather than part of their party name. I’m also not sure we should be using the English translation of the party name - searching for either “voice of reason” or the romanized Greek name doesn’t bring up many English language sources at all about them. However, the romanized name brings up many more sources of other European languages (such as Spanish), and thus in the absence of English language sources to go off of, or a statement from the party as to their official name in English, I’d think we would name it the romanized Greek name. Happy for anyone to prove me wrong on English language sources/an official English name.

If disambiguation is needed, the ideal would be (political party) if it is the only political party of that name, or if there have been multiple parties named that in Greek history that are completely independent of each other, then something like (2000s political party) or similar. Can’t really comment on if other countries with parties of the same English common name exist though, in which case it may be needed to add Greek to the disambiguator. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 20:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

To comment on the first part the official name of the party does contain the leader's name it is very common in greece to do this but because it looks weird on a wikipedia page i can agree on that. For the second part, there are a few sources but it lacks english sources for mostly one reason. The party is niche. But still, politico mentioned the party so did other sources.

https://www.politico.eu/article/23-kookiest-meps-european-parliament-election-results-2024/

https://www.tovima.com/tag/voice-of-reason-party/

These sources mention it as voice of reason amd there are few to none that call it otherwise Takis S1 (talk) 13:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Same content in two articles

is it acceptable; is it helpful to Wikipedia's credibility to have the same content in two related articles? Compare Afroditi Latinopoulou#Controversy and Voice of Reason - Afroditi Latinopoulou#Ideology D.S. Lioness (talk) 03:00, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I understand the confusion but its important to mention similar information because the reader shouldnr be deprived of information thst matters to the subject he is reading. Takis S1 (talk) 13:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

this edit simply shows sloppiness - they can be worded differently so that one text is not a copy of the other D.S. Lioness (talk) 17:03, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hm i can agree on that Takis S1 (talk) 12:45, 26 June 2024 (UTC)