Talk:Burmese Buddhist Temple (Singapore)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 10:06, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Layout

• The {{buddhism}} series template was meant to be used for top-level articles. Its use here makes the layout very crowded with an infobox above it and an image below it. Although it could be used in its collapsed form as {{Buddhism|collapsed=1}}, it would be better to use a collapsed footer template instead, such as {{Buddhism topics}}. Viriditas (talk) 10:29, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

  Done Thanks for the suggestion! --Hildanknight (talk) 11:17, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Images

• File:Burmese Buddhist Temple-Wall Murals.jpg; it is not entirely clear if this mural is copyrighted under Singapore law, making this a non-free image. Viriditas (talk) 10:19, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Done Removed the image from the article. Feel free to tag the file itself for deletion. I will not do so myself as I am not that familiar with image policy. --Hildanknight (talk) 18:24, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• There is no complete image of the entire pagoda structure in the article. Viriditas (talk) 11:03, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Is such an image required by the GA criteria? --Hildanknight (talk) 18:24, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

No. But as the reader, I was curious what the structure looked like. Viriditas (talk) 21:09, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done --Hildanknight (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

• Why is "Maha Sasana Ramsi" linked in the infobox when it's the name of this article? Do we need a redirect? Viriditas (talk) 13:20, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Done --Hildanknight (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

• {{Infobox monastery}} has additional parameters. Please review. Viriditas (talk) 13:25, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Lead

• The Burmese Buddhist Temple is located on Tai Gin Road in Novena, Singapore.
  • I've noticed that some Singapore-related articles have a tendency to tell us the location of the thing under discussion before telling us what it is. As the reader, I want to know what something is and why it is notable before I find out where it is located, and the infobox already helps in this regard. I understand this is a stylistic concern, but it really bothers me. In an article like Zhenguo Temple, we are at least told it is a Buddhist temple before its location. Obviously, that is somewhat redundant because of the name. However, an article like Sera Monastery informs the reader that this is one of three important monasteries in Tibet. Of the existing GA temple articles, I prefer the introduction to Mahamuni Buddha Temple: "The Mahamuni Buddha Temple (Burmese: မဟာမုနိဘုရားကြီး, Burmese pronunciation: [məhà mṵnḭ pʰəjádʑí]; also called the Mahamuni Pagoda) is a Buddhist temple and major pilgrimage site, located southwest of Mandalay, Burma (Myanmar)." If, as we later find out, it is the oldest Theravada institution and the only Burmese Buddhist temple of its kind in Singapore, perhaps we should start out be saying that in the first sentence: "The Burmese Buddhist Temple is the oldest Theravada institution and the only Burmese Buddhist temple of its kind in Singapore. Founded in 1875 on Kinta Road, it is now located on Tai Gin Road in Novena." Or something like that. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Done --Hildanknight (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

• The lead should summarize the most important points, such as the fact that the Temple was moved from Kinta Road in 1988. Viriditas (talk) 10:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Partly done What other important points deserve a mention in the lead section? --Hildanknight (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

History

• The Burmese Buddhist Temple (BBT) was founded by a Burmese, named U Thar Hnin
  • A Burmese what? A monk? It helps to describe him in this context. Viriditas (talk) 00:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Clarification Very little is known about him. --Hildanknight (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• The temple houses the largest pure white marble statue of the Buddha outside of Myanmar. It is also the only Burmese Buddhist temple built outside of Myanmar in the traditional Burmese architectural style.
  • This appears in the first paragraph, as if it were an executive summary, because it then follows for a second time below in chronological order. Since there isn't enough content in this section to necessitate an executive summary, and since we generally reserve such a summary for the lead section, this seems repetitive and out of place. Viriditas (talk) 06:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

• The new temple houses a spacious shrine hall, a meditation hall, a multi-purpose hall, a library and living quarters for the monks.
  • Source? Viriditas (talk) 10:29, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

According to the GA criteria, inline citations are only needed for five types of information. This is not among the five and the sources are listed in the Bibliography section. --06:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

That's a unique way of interpreting WP:V. Which source are you using? I'm not going to pass any article without inline sources. If that means you have to pull the source out of the Bibliography section and use it in the article, then you'll have to do that. I need to verify the information. Viriditas (talk) 09:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Done differently Decided to remove the sentence instead. --Hildanknight (talk) 18:24, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• The article cites a plaque indicating the temple is a national heritage site of Singapore, and the temple website claims it is a "national heritage site", but there is nothing in the body of the article indicating this. Viriditas (talk) 10:58, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

  Clarification The plaque was erected by the National Heritage Board, but that does not mean the temple has an official designation as a "national heritage site". Similarly, whether the use of the term in the official website refers to an official designation is unclear. The temple is not among the national monuments of Singapore. --Hildanknight (talk) 11:17, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

• Eventually, a magnificent Buddha image measuring 3 metres (eleven feet) in height was immaculately sculptured out from the stone in 1918.
  • Please tone down the wording per recommended policies and guidelines. The use of "magnificent" and "immaculate" can be problematic in this context. Viriditas (talk) 22:31, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Done Such terms are the main weakness Aldwinteo had as a GA writer. --Hildanknight (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

• In a previous version, the subheading "A mission" appeared as "U Kyaw Gaung missionary work". The current heading "A mission" is a far cry from "Missionary work", which is more accurate. Any idea why it was changed? Viriditas (talk) 05:55, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Clarification I cannot find the previous version that you mentioned and Aldwinteo clearly intended the subheading to be "A mission". --Hildanknight (talk) 16:45, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I was looking at a different copy on a mirror. Putting aside what Aldwinteo intended, why is "A mission" superior to "Missionary work", and what is the difference between them? Viriditas (talk) 02:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Bodhi tree

• A Bodhi tree (Ficus religiosa), can be seen in the compound of the temple that was grown from a seed from its parent tree which is situated at Mangala Vihara Buddhist Temple.
  • This makes it seem like an old tree, but Mangala Vihara was founded in 1960, so the tree must be fairly young. I would expect to know when it was planted. Viriditas (talk) 13:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Activities and management

• This section is poorly cited. The link, which was last checked seven years ago, goes to this site. That's not an ideal link. Obviously, the editor was trying to link to this link instead, which lies outside the frame. Please review this source and change the link. Viriditas (talk) 02:56, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Done --Hildanknight (talk) 06:45, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

• Its annual calendar of events includes New Year Special Offering to the Sangha, Chinese New Year's Eve Chanting, Water Festival (Thin Gyan), Vesak Day, Vassa (Rain Retreat) Offering of Robes, Kathina Celebration and Novitiate Programme.
  • Do you mean and the Novitiate Programme? I assume that the Kathina Celebration is not part of the Novitiate Programme. Should there be a comma after "Kathina Celebration"? Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Done Added "the", but Singapore does not use the serial comma. --Hildanknight (talk) 06:45, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

See also

• OK, but per my suggestions above in the lead section, this link can easily be merged into the lead, if desired. Viriditas (talk) 06:28, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Bibliography

• Than, Mya (2001). In Commemoration of the Grand Opening of Burmese Buddhist Temple. Singapore.
  • It was published in 1991, not 2001. I'm curious if this source is being confused with a different one, namely the "10th Anniversary Souvenir" published in 2001. Viriditas (talk) 06:19, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

• This section is missing the following reference:

Blackburn, Anne M. (May 2012). Ceylonese Buddhism in Colonial Singapore: New Ritual Spaces and Specialists, 1895-1935. Asia Research Institute. Working Paper Series No. 184. National University of Singapore.

Considering the paucity of secondary sources (and ability to verify the primary) this really needs to be added. Please review pages 10-12. Viriditas (talk) 06:19, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   WP:PEACOCK

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Question about copyright status of mural image. See above section.

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Withdrawing

Due to the sourcing issues, I am withdrawing this nomination. Thanks for the review. --Hildanknight (talk) 06:49, 4 July 2014 (UTC)