Portal talk:Textile arts/Selected biography

Biographies

1. Elizabeth Zimmermann = Start-class, No relevant free-use image in article.
2. John Henry Dearle = B-class, free-use image of work in article.
3. William Morris = B-class, free-use image of individual in article. WP:LEAD could use expansion. Added - PKM (talk) 21:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
4. Betsy Ross = B-class, relevant free-use image in article. WP:LEAD could use expansion.

Comment

If someone could get these up to at least a minimum of "B" class, I think these 4 would be enough to at least start/reformat a Biographies section of the portal, and then we'd only need 6 more. Cirt (talk) 16:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Notes

Can someone add the quality ratings next to each of the chosen Articles/Biographies, above? This way we know if there are enough selections to restrict future selections to only WP:GA and WP:FA, or whether to include "B" rated content in order to have more of a selection. Cirt (talk) 02:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Cirt, there certainly isn't enough FA/GA material to restrict that way. This project has only one GA and one FA. Another one in GAC and a fourth I hope to bring to GAC soon. Half of the top-priority articles are still start-class or stub-class. One of the reasons I'm working with this project is to help change that. So for now, gotta work with what we have. Durova^Charge! 04:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd prefer not to use start, especially not stub class stuff in a portal, and aside from my own ideas of what a WP:FPORT should be, there's Wikipedia:Featured portal criteria, 3:1 It showcases only high-quality content that is preferably already featured. -- If we lower the standards to include "B" class and above quality stuff, would that suffice? Otherwise we may just have to set up the format of the portal, add whatever material can be added now, and then add more as articles' quality improves. Cirt (talk) 04:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, when it comes to biographies I had to dip down into start-class stuff. I really picked through our selections for the best we've got. Durova^Charge! 05:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay well at the least for the biographies we have to definitely per WP:BLP have enough material from the articles that is WP:RS/WP:V sourced to use as text for the blurbs - or else we just can't use them. Are the "selected articles" above all "B" class and above? Cirt (talk) 05:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Looking over the choices...you might want to go with a shorter and better-referenced article such as smocking in place of history of clothing and textiles. Durova^Charge! 05:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, well it's your list, so feel free to change it. If you could add a notation above for "B", WP:GA or WP:FA for the "selected articles", and something about if there's enough text in the biographies that's appropriately sourced/cited (or if the biographies are quality-rated) then I can go about setting up a couple examples for rotation, and hopefully from that you'll be able to see how to do the rest of them and take it from there. Cirt (talk) 05:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

(ec)One thing we do have in spades is good Did you know? entries. And many of them have images, if you can put that into rotation. Need a list for that? Durova^Charge! 05:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure. But it would be very helpful for that to also have the number of the WP:Recent additions where those are archived. Cirt (talk) 05:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've made a couple of changes per the above. We have only 3 bios that aren't embarrassments. Does that kill our chances for featured portal? I'll add designations for article class asap. Durova^Charge! 05:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

(e/c)Or if the DYK hooks have not been archived yet, a link/Diff to T:DYK when they appeared there. Cirt (talk) 05:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Weird...do portal histories not show the older revisions? I thought I'd be able to pull up the older info. Durova^Charge! 05:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what you are referring to, what do you mean, one of this portal's subpages ? Cirt (talk) 05:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I was saying that I thought I'd be able to pick up the old DYK entries through the portal history. That's all right; I retrieved them another way. Durova^Charge! 02:44, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Possible substitutes for biography articles

Films?

• Norma Rae - about union organizing in a textile plant: start-class
• How to Make an American Quilt - tagged for cleanup, classified as stub but at least long enough to be start-class. No references

Fiction?

• Persuasion (novel) by Jane Austen - Lady Russell spends nearly the entire story working on a long piece of needlework "of little use and no beauty" while her family goes to ruin. - B-class
• A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens - Citizeness Defarge, one of the more memorable villains in literature, brings her knitting along when she goes to watch the beheadings of her enemies after she has informed on them. - B-class, tagged for lack of citations
• The Long Winter (novel) by Laura Ingalls Wilder - Laura and her blind sister Mary spend a snowed-in winter in South Dakota doing needlework and hoping for a thaw that would let the snowed-in railroad bring supplies to a town that fears starvation. - labeled as stub-class, probably start-class.
• Odyssey by Homer - Odysseus's wife Penelope delays a throng of suitors by weaving and unweaving a funeral shroud for her father. B-class
• Metamorphoses by Ovid Unrated (high start-low B) - Arachne challenges a goddess to a weaving competition and gets transformed into a spider for her impertinence.

1. La Princesse de Clèves by Marie-Madeleine Pioche de la Vergne, comtesse de la Fayette The Duc de Nemours honors dresses his lance with a yellow silk ribbon for a joust, in order to honor the married woman he loves. She cannot wear yellow because the color is unflattering on her, but it's her favorite color. (tagged as stub, probably worth changing tag to start-class)

Also worth checking: List_of_knitters_in_literature. From that list:

• To the Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf - B-class
• Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe - featured
• Emma by Jane Austen - B-class
• War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy - B-class
• David Copperfield (novel) by Charles Dickens - start-class

I think I could dig up enough B-class articles to round out a set of 10 with a little more research. Durova^Charge! 03:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Textile Arts in fiction

Add your (10) "B" class or higher quality-rated articles here, and I'll create the new subsection. (The 3 above bio articles that you deemed suitable will be added instead in with the other general "Selected article" section.) Cirt (talk) 04:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, need to catch up on a couple of other things first. Thanks so much for your help. I should give you a barnstar for this. :) Durova^Charge! 18:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Eh, don't mention it. It'll just be nice when it gets to WP:FPORT at some point.  :) Cirt (talk) 19:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

1. Persuasion (novel) by Jane Austen - Lady Russell spends nearly the entire story working on a long piece of needlework "of little use and no beauty" while her family goes to ruin. - B-class

   This article should not be rated "B" class, it's not very well cited. Also, the WP:LEAD is way too short for ideal portal usage (could be double its current size) and the relevance to this portal would have to be asserted by someone more familiar w/ the topic than me. (I could add it if it were better cited and the lead were expanded, and then someone else could tweak the "blurb" text to be more relevant to this portal's topic. Cirt (talk) 18:57, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

2. A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens - Citizeness Defarge, one of the more memorable villains in literature, brings her knitting along when she goes to watch the beheadings of her enemies after she has informed on them. - B-class, tagged for lack of citations.

   As noted, tagged for lack of citations. WP:LEAD doesn't really mention relevance, so per my prev comment someone would have to tweak the blurb text if I were to add it to the portal. I'd really rather not go w/ something w/ "This article does not cite any references or sources. (October 2007)" at the top of the article though. Cirt (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

3. Odyssey by Homer - Odysseus's wife Penelope delays a throng of suitors by weaving and unweaving a funeral shroud for her father. B-class

   A good Lead/Intro, but not relevant to this portal's topic. Someone would have to write a "blurb" from scratch. It'd be nice to find a free-use image that's more relevant to Penelope's funeral shroud weaving. Cirt (talk) 19:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

4. Metamorphoses by Ovid Unrated (high start-low B) - Arachne challenges a goddess to a weaving competition and gets transformed into a spider for her impertinence.

   Same note as for Odyssey, and also Lead/Intro is too short. Cirt (talk) 19:03, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

5. To the Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf - B-class (need info)
6. Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe - featured (need info)
7. Emma by Jane Austen - B-class (need info)
8. War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy - B-class (need info)
9. Example article.
10. Example article.

That's eight, although on some of them I'd need to look up the textile side of things. I've read Emma and War and Peace and for the life of me I can't recall who was knitting in either of them. I think there were some embroidery references in Le Morte d'Arthur or maybe it was The Once and Future King Time to do some more digging. Durova^Charge! 05:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

You're a tough customer, Cirt. I've pinged Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles who's a member of the project and may be able to help this area. Durova^Charge! 01:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Among the most significant use of textiles as major plot elements in fiction would probably be Rumpelstiltskin, as the whole plot centers in part on a spinning wheel, and God of War II, which includes as the penultimate bosses "The Sisters of Fate - In order to use the Loom to change his past, Kratos must battle the Three Sisters of Fate that are defending it, frightened that Kratos will bring doom to the world should he use it. Lakhesis confronts Kratos alone trying to kill him using a combination of melee attacks and magic with the use of her staff. When bested by Kratos, Lakhesis releases Atropos from within her. Atropos carries Kratos through the mirror back to the time when Kratos fought Ares. She threatens that she could kill Kratos in the past by destroying the sword he used to kill Ares. Kratos defeats Atropos, bringing him back to Lakhesis' throne room. Both Lakhesis and Atropos fight against Kratos. He defeats them by throwing them into one of their inter-dimensional mirrors, and then destroying it, trapping them in a void between realms. The final sister, Clotho, awaits Kratos a few levels away. While Kratos makes his way to her head he disables five of her smaller arms blocking his way up. Once at the top level, he disables her two main arms, giving him time to bring up a giant swinging blade. With this blade he impales Clotho through her head killing the last of the Sisters of Fate, granting him the power to change the past." Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 04:01, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks; the God of War II article is in pretty good shape. Rumpelstiltskin looks like it needs some work. Durova^Charge! 04:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 04:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Biographies, revisited

In order to prioritize our weakest area, here goes:

Tolerable:

1. Elizabeth Zimmermann = Start-class, No relevant free-use image in article.
2. John Henry Dearle = B-class, free-use image of work in article.
3. William Morris = B-class, free-use image of individual in article. WP:LEAD could use expansion.
4. Betsy Ross = B-class, relevant free-use image in article. WP:LEAD could use expansion.

---

Needing work:

1. Rosey Grier - newly tagged for our project, needs assessment and possible expansion. Might team up with the football project for this?
2. Debbie Stoller - start class, needs expansion
3. Joseph Marie Jacquard - stub class, needs expansion and referencing
4. Mary Brooks Picken - needs expansion, very listy
5. Erica Wilson - stub, needs expansion and an image if possible
6. Marianne Kinzel - stub, needs expansion and an image if possible
7. Federico de Vinciolo - stub, at least it has an image
8. Mariska Karasz - stub, needs expansion and an image
9. Shannon Okey - stub, needs expansion and an image
10. Teresa Wentzler - stub, at least it has an image
11. May Morris - stub, has an image; good candidate for expansion

Durova^Charge! 00:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Awesome. If these above were all "B" class, or better yet, WP:GA class, with an associated relevant free-use image and a nice good WP:LEAD, I could have the rest of the portal ready for another portal peer review and then WP:FPORTC within short order. Cirt (talk) 04:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Would be helpful if articles like Rosey Grier and others with WP:LEAD sections that to the lay reader do not seem relevant to this project - could be tweaked a bit to show relevancy, especially w/ a sentence or two in the lead/intro of those articles, and then also obviously in the "blurb" text of the selected bios. Just something else to think about. Cirt (talk) 06:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll copy this list to project talk to make sure people see it. We're going to need all the help we can get with this part. Durova^Charge! 10:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

---

Finds:

• Sir William Henry Perkin
• Eli Whitney
• William Madison Wood
• Jedediah Strutt
• Samuel Slater
• Richard Arkwright

The above aren't perfect, but they're in better shape than a lot of the other bios listed above. The football project put a little work into the Rosey Grier biography. I'm going to see what I can do for him and for Debbie Stoller. If there are other bios on this list that would be good to go with an expanded introduction and some copyediting, please let me know. Durova^Charge! 19:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Needs a lot of work, keep me posted as more get to B-class or better yet, WP:GA-class, and have sufficient text in the lede. The only one at present that I'd like to add is Richard Arkwright - but I can't because the entire article is unsourced and lacking cites. Cirt (talk) 19:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment - Images?

We should also focus on finding free-use images for as many of the above bio articles as possible. Cirt (talk) 19:36, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. I'll work on that. Might be hard to accomplish for the current/recent bios. Durova^Charge! 19:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment - Start the section?

Anyone want to work on the WP:LEAD for William Morris and Betsy Ross? I'll go ahead and reformat the "Selected bio" section, and start adding a few of the satisfactory articles that have a good size WP:LEAD, are at least of B-class with decent sourcing, and ideally have a relevant free-use image to go along with it. Cirt (talk) 19:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll have a look at those. Durova^Charge! 19:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

More potentials, need work, cleanup

1. Emil Rieve
2. Gunta Stölzl
3. Dobri Zhelyazkov
4. Moses H. Cone

Cirt (talk) 04:38, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Also:

• Anni Albers

Durova^Charge! 05:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Expansions and improvements

Gave Moses H. Cone a full two paragraph lead. Is that good enough now? Durova^Charge! 08:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes,  Done, added. 8 more to go... Cirt (talk) 23:29, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Working on Gunta Stölzl (not quite ready yet). Durova^Charge! 05:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Expanded the introduction. Think this is good to go now? Durova^Charge! 23:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't get how a reproduction of the Bauhaus logo can be free-use, it probably should not be on Commons. Cirt (talk) 04:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Dang, you're right. How'd you like to write your first Commons deletion proposal? Durova^Charge! 08:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay... Cirt (talk) 08:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I changed those images. 3 down, 7 to go? Durova^Charge! 08:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

 Done, added. Yes, 7 more to go... Cirt (talk) 08:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

• Emil Rieve Durova^Charge! 04:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Can we get some more info on that image/logo used in that article, precisely why it is public domain, etc. ? Cirt (talk) 05:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll try, or else I'll scout for something else that's relevant. There must be something in public domain relevant to his career. If nothing else, perhaps some FSA press releases about labor relations during WWII. Durova^Charge! 06:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, keep us posted here, would be really nice to have a free-use image to go along with each selection (though not absolutely required). Cirt (talk) 06:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. Durova^Charge! 06:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

• John Henry Dearle? (I hope I hope I hope...) Good enough? Durova^Charge! 01:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

This one is already in the rotation. Cirt (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• William Henry Perkin Durova^Charge! 03:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Samuel Slater (I hope that's enough). Durova^Charge! 07:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Eli Whitney Durova^Charge! 07:42, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Betsy Ross Durova^Charge! 08:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Rosey Grier Durova^Charge! 08:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Added up to 9

I added the above (nice work on the improvements) and John Henry Dearle is already there, so we have 9 - one more needed and then I think we could go for a 2nd WP:PPREV, and then on to WP:FPORTC. Cirt (talk) 00:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh dang! I thought we were at ten... (sob)...(edit, edit) Durova^Charge! 04:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

More bios to add

I have finally expanded Bess of Hardwick to have a proper lead explaing her significance, which covers her role as a needlewoman and companion to Mary Queen of Scots, and the importance of the Hardwick Hall textiles. It was previously tagged as start class but I think it's ready for a B, please check.

I also expanded the lead on William Morris. That article is undergoing a series of improvements by Mervyn and I am going to add textiles information as part of that. - PKM (talk) 16:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Sweet. Added Bess of Hardwick and increased bio max to 10. Cirt (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. I just finished adding info on embroidery, printed and woven textiles, and tapestry to William Morris. - PKM (talk) 23:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your help, PKM! Durova^Charge! 00:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

And now we are ten, no more sobbing! :-) - PKM (talk) 02:05, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Does happy dance. Durova^Charge! 02:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Morris

It's time I stopped being intimidated by the portal structure. I have added the expanded William Morris to the bios, all by myself. And now we are 11. - PKM (talk) 21:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice. Cirt (talk) 22:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)