Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Leopard 2E

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Leopard 2E

Review extended until 15:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC) to garner further comment. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 10:38, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Closed as not promoted. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 04:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

This is going through a peer review, but I think it would be faster if it goes through a peer review and an A-class review simultaneously. This morning, this article passed a Good Article Review. As with other articles, I'm ultimately shooting for FAC. Thanks for taking the time to look at it and express your opinions on it! JonCatalan (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment: It might be better to get the peer review (where the text is described as a "rough draft") more or less out of the way before requesting an ACR. This review is really geared to being the last port of call prior to FAC and the article content will be more stable after the PR is complete. There is, coincidentally, a discussion on this at the moment among the coordinators and comments there would be appreciated. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 20:06, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree, but since I have the time to make changes very quickly, I almost rather do this and close the peer review. I'm on virtual vacation at this point, so while in my opinion the ACR gives me the same feedback, it also has the capability of 'killing two birds with one stone.. JonCatalan (talk) 08:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Disregard this comment, please. I'm trying to make the red link on the talk page into a blue link, since it won't recognize the existence of this page. JonCatalan (talk) 13:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. Overall, a good article. However, there are a few things that should probably be addressed.
  • One of your sources in the "footnotes" section has a "retrieved on" bit on the end, which is traditionally used for web-resources. If this is a web-resource, would you be able to add the link to the resource?
  • "The Spanish Army replaced its M60 Patton tanks and AMX-30s with the Leopard 2," Did this occur all at once, or was it gradual? Either way, would you happen to have a date/time period for it?
  • The opening sentence of the lead is a bit awkward. Might I suggest "The Leopard 2E is Spain's main battle tank, forming part of the Spanish armament modernization program Programa Coraza, or Program Armor"
  • In the "comparison to other Spanish tanks" section, you go off on a bit of a tangent talking about the fate of the previous battletanks in other countries. To maintain the focus of the article, I'd just talk about the fate of the particular tanks in Spain.
  • As for the wikilink on Programa Coraza. I noticed that it turned up a redlink when I put it in. I noticed that you linked it to later in the article. I'd just replace it with the redlink, which will lead to an article being made on the subject independent of this one.
  • Feel free to contact me if you have questions. Cam (Chat) 22:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I linked to Santa Bárbara Sistemas' page for the footnote in question. I added 'between 1995 and 2008' after 'The Spanish Army replaced its M60 Patton tanks...'. In regards to the lead, someone copyedited it for me! As for the comparison, I took out that last sentence. Finally, I red linked Programa Coraza. Thanks! JonCatalán (talk) 05:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

• Support. I think you've addressed all of my concerns with the article very well. All the best, Cam (Chat) 17:16, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: I'd say it is a very good article! Perhaps somewhat more exact data could be given of the production and the replacement of tanks, using Spain's official entries into the UN Register of Conventional Arms: http://disarmament.un.org/UN_REGISTER.NSF ? --MWAK (talk) 06:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I am looking for (in stores) the second part of the book La Brunete, because I'm not sure when exactly Spain's AMX-30s were taken out of service. My sources don't 'go that far' and were written when the vehicle was still in service. If I recall correctly, Spain's AMX-30EM1s were retired and scrapped fairly early - probably soon after the entrance of the M60A3, but I can't verify; the Spanish Army was no longer interested in maintaning a number of tanks in accordance with the limits of the CFE. The UNRCA says that in 1998 the Spanish Army had 618 tanks (244 M60A3TTS', 108 Leopard 2A4s = 362 - Spain never had 374 AMX-30Es). In 1999 the number goes up to 633. UNRCA says that in 1992 92 M60s (of no specific type) were delivered, and in 1993 another 214 (310) - this seems to be correct, although as far as I know M60A1s were never put into service and instead there were plans to convert them into engineering vehicles and bridge lanching vehicles. It's hard to keep track though, since they don't mention anything between 1995 and 1998. It seems that the UNRCA believes that Spain has retained its M47s and M48s in service (the only explenation, although technically then Spain would have over 1,000 MBTs). The amount of Leopard 2Es delivered by Krauss-Maffei adds up, however (30), and I was looking for a good source to verify the production of 30 Leopard 2Es in Germany, so thank you! (Should we be surprised that no Spanish source verifies this?!) I added that 30 were produced by Germany, but I didn't break down production by year. Again, thanks! JonCatalán (talk) 07:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.