Talk:Lee Harvey Oswald
Latest comment: 1 day ago by CanonNi in topic Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2024
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Q1: Why does the article describe Oswald as the assassin of John F. Kennedy, instead of the alleged assassin, given that he was never convicted in a court of law?
A1: A legal conviction is required before government may label someone a criminal and punish him. But a legal conviction is not required for scholars and historians to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence: they may conclude that a person never convicted of some crime was, in fact, guilty (e.g. John Wilkes Booth); or they may conclude that someone who was convicted was, in fact, innocent (e.g. Timothy Evans). Although Oswald was killed before he could be brought to trial, reliable sources firmly establish that he fired the shots that killed Kennedy. Q2: What if I still disagree?
A2: Read the discussions found in this page's archives before proposing that Oswald be described as Kennedy's "alleged assassin" or the like. Proposals rehashing old arguments will go nowhere. |
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Alleged edit
Lee Harvey Oswald was never found guilty, so it should say "alleged assassin." In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. Canada Jack's analogy with Hinckley is not apropos. Hinckley was found 'not guilty by reasons of insanity,' and served time in an institution. Whereas Oswald never stood trial because he was murdered while he was in police custody.
Canada Jack is betraying a strong bias and also violating Wikipedia's policy of decorum, using words like "utterly inane." 108.64.36.237 (talk) 15:03, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Please see the FAQ. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. Please kindly define "reliable sources" from the FAQ when the majority of Americans don't believe the Warren Commission's findings, and we now know the Commission's only purpose was to implicate Oswald, not uncover the truth.
- https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVj1sF0Hw3w 108.64.36.237 (talk) 19:16, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Here is a list of frequently discussed sources: [1]. Rja13ww33 (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. ABC News is listed as a reliable source.
- In the below link, ABC News calls Oswald the "alleged assassin." So should Wikipedia.
- ABC News also reports on J. Edgar Hoover's urgent desire to have "something issued so that we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin" two days after the assassination. From that urgent desire to implicate Oswald was born the Warren Commission.
- https://abcnews.go.com/US/jfk-assassination-files-reveal-hoovers-frustration-oswalds-death/story?id=50731843 108.64.36.237 (talk) 23:34, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wikipedia goes by the consensus of reliable sources, not a single source's usage. Acroterion (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Agree with Acroterion. Most RS describe him this way and so should we. We do allude to the multiple CTs in the intro. Rja13ww33 (talk) 23:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- How many links from reliable sources will be enough? Five? 10? Happy to provide them.
- But because reliable sources disagree, wouldn't it make the most sense to label Oswald neither guilty nor innocent? "Alleged assassin" is the most neutral, unbiased terminology. Also, it has the added benefit of being factual. 108.64.36.237 (talk) 23:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wikipedia goes by the consensus of reliable sources, not a single source's usage. Acroterion (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Here is a list of frequently discussed sources: [1]. Rja13ww33 (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Oswald assassinated Kennedy. John Wilkes Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Facts are facts. Cullen328 (talk) 23:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
- Then why do so many reliable sources call him the alleged assassin? 108.64.36.237 (talk) 00:11, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- "So many"? No, we're not going to change to your preferred version based on a couple of editorial decisions by headline writers. We go by the overwhelming consensus of reliable sources in serious, in-depth scholarship and journalism. Acroterion (talk) 00:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- Hi. Here's 12 reliable, neutral sources who call Oswald the alleged assassin, or the man arrested for killing Kennedy. Is 12 enough? It's apparently good enough for Encyclopedia Britannica but not Wikipedia? What's with the bias, Wikipedia? Be better.
- https://www.keranews.org/arts-culture/2023-11-22/jfk-assassination-60th-anniversary-lee-harvey-oswald-dallas-historical-sites
- https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100256499
- https://time.com/4753349/oswald-kennedy-declassified-documentary/
- https://www.newsweek.com/new-documents-shed-light-cias-connection-lee-harvey-oswald-1765105
- https://time.com/4316494/lee-harvey-oswald-donald-trump/
- https://www.britannica.com/event/assassination-of-John-F-Kennedy
- https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/lee-harvey-oswald-who-was-arrested-on-november-22-on-news-photo/615321050
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/jfk/jfkpoststory.htm
- https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/exclusive-tour-inside-lee-harvey-oswald-exhibit-detailing-notorious-dallas-history/3037101/
- https://theintercept.com/2022/12/22/deconstructed-jfk-files-cia/
- https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/history/us-history-biographies/lee-harvey-oswald
- https://www.latimes.com/obituaries/story/2019-08-30/jim-leavelle-lee-harvey-oswald-jfk-dead 108.64.36.237 (talk) 02:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- There is no bias. Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated John F. Kennedy. John Wilkes Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Both were killed before they could be tried in court. Both are assassins, and "alleged" is a weasel word when the evidence is so overwhelming. Cullen328 (talk) 02:17, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- "So many"? No, we're not going to change to your preferred version based on a couple of editorial decisions by headline writers. We go by the overwhelming consensus of reliable sources in serious, in-depth scholarship and journalism. Acroterion (talk) 00:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- What we need is an edit filter on the page (and the article itself, I suppose) which, if the submitted edit contains the word "alleged", blocks the edit and throws up a message referring the editor to FAQ #2 above. EEng 14:17, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- I think it would need to apply to all of the peripheral articles too, like Texas School Book Depository and Marina Oswald, not to mention the central article, Assassination of John F. Kennedy. Anything that's not protected at a given moment tends to get that kind of drive-by edit. Acroterion (talk) 14:35, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2024 edit
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In the section of the Edwin Walker assassination attempt, the article correctly lists the price of the Carcano rifle of $19.95 + $1.50 shipping, as supported by the citation from https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-14.html. The issue is that on the image next to this paragraph, there is associated text that says it was $29.95, which is actually the price of a Smith & Wesson revolver, also mentioned in the paragraph. The change I'd like made is just to correct this text.
MStaynor (talk) 03:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Done , though I have to say I find the caption quite odd. It seems like the price is a reasonable fact to include in the body. The caption could cover all sorts of things, but I'd probably pick "used to assassinate JFK" over "cost $19.95". Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2024 edit
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This page is factually saying that Lee Oswald WAS the shooter that assassinated President Kennedy. Should say Alleged shooter. He was not proven guilt, to be the shooter, in a court of law. He was killed before hand. 2600:1700:9280:7F60:DEC0:9228:56EC:CE8E (talk) 20:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Please read the FAQ. John Wilkes Booth was dead too. Acroterion (talk) 20:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- And he's still dead to this very day. EEng 23:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
- Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead Acroterion (talk)' 00:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- And he's still dead to this very day. EEng 23:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2024 edit
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Change who assassinated John F. Kennedy to who was accused of being involved with the assassination of John F. Kennedy 2603:8000:D101:5369:5503:1B1B:4E3A:AC8C (talk) 05:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done: See the FAQ on top of this page. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 05:43, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
