Talk:Highland Clearances

recent edits by User:K1ngstowngalway1

There are many problems with the recent edits by K1ngstowngalway1. To summarise these points:

(1) Material based on Father Allan: The Life and Legacy of a Hebridean Priest and other non RS references. Firstly, the material added focuses on a date which is outside the period of the clearances. Secondly this source and the others do not qualify as an RS for this sort of article. See WP:HISTRS. This has been dealt with in the post immediately aboveTalk:Highland Clearances/Archive 7#Recent edits, including the non-RS status of Roger Hutchinson. Trying to get this material back into the article without addressing the original concerns could be considered the early stages of disruptive editing.

(2) genuinely believed her plans were advantageous for those forcibly resettled in other crofting communities and could not understand why her tenants complained. "Forcibly" implies the use of force, which does not fit with the cited sources on which this part of the article is based. "other" suggests that they were being moved from one crofting community to another. This is a common misconception. In the first phase of the clearances, tenants were moved from farming townships to crofts – these are two entirely different agricultural systems. "her" – technically they were her husband's tenants.

(3) This was never considered a legitimate defense eviction under Scots property law. Dùthchas was also gradually rejected by those clan chiefs who began to think of themselves simply as commercial landlords What does the terms "legitimate defense [sic] eviction" add to the article? This is dressed up to appear as a formal legal term. I very much doubt that it is and even if it were, this is simply obfuscating the subject.

Therefore this sequence of edits has been reverted. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 12:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Debt and landlords

The words in the lead ..driven by the need for landlords to increase their income – many had substantial debts.. are a frequent target for alteration. However, these words are chosen very carefully, based on (1) the main body of the article (WP:MOSLEAD) and (2) the sources that support the whole article.

The main historians of the subject all pay significant attention to the indebtedness of Highland landlords. At risk of making too long a quotation, Eric Richards says, in one of several statements on the matter:
"One of the paradoxes of Highland landownership in the late eighteenth century and beyond was the accumulation of debt in so many families despite the rise of commodity prices and real income. Debt was a great spur to changes because clearances yielded a much higher rent." Richards, Eric. The Highland Clearances (p. 127)
Richards is also the historian who coined the term "financial suicide" that is quoted in the article.

Tom Devine, who is known for his highly evidenced studies of Highland History, frequently mentions landlord debt in his The Scottish Clearances: A History of the Dispossessed, 1600-1900. To pick (largely at random) just one example, we find:
"In fact, indebtedness had become a structural problem and now plagued most of the ruling families of Gaeldom." (p. 42)
Devine says a lot more on the subject, but I cannot quote all of it here.

The article covers debt and bankruptcy in some detail. Picking on just a few words in the lead without looking at the subject in the main body of the article is unhelpful – that is where fuller explanations are given and the references are found. The references show that debt is integral to the whole story, alongside the Highland Potato Famine, overpopulation and the appeal (to the more affluent tenants and the tacksmen) of emigration. Not mentioning landlord debt would be a disservice to the reader. Implying that landlords put up rents solely out of greed (a simple wish for more money) as opposed to necessity (avoiding foreclosure on their estates) would be a similar misrepresentation that should not be here. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 19:16, 12 June 2024 (UTC)