Talk:Ziyad ibn Abihi
Ziyad ibn Abihi has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: July 26, 2019. (Reviewed version). |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ziyad ibn Abihi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from Ziyad ibn Abihi appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 September 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Untitled edit
Salam!
Good jobb, lets spread the word :D !
--Striver 4 July 2005 00:02 (UTC)
Title of the article should be changed edit
His well known name is Ziyad ibn Abeeh both the Arabic and Farsi page name him as such there is nothing to support the current article's name I hope someone will edit it.
Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.44.102.111 (talk) 14:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Done Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 23:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
External links modified edit
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ziyad ibn Abi Sufyan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20050310063013/http://www.dartabligh.org:80/books/ebooks/Role_vol3/page96.asp to http://www.dartabligh.org/books/ebooks/Role_vol3/page96.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:35, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
GA Review edit
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Ziyad ibn Abih/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: AhmadLX (talk · contribs) 16:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I will review this. AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 16:12, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Misc.
- Earwig's clear.
- Suggest trimming of lead. See MOS:LEADLENGTH.
- I think there is some repetition at the end of section "Origins".
- EI2 article states that his testimony in favor of Mughira was false. This is significant and should be mentioned.
- This was a bit confusing for me. The EI2 source says: "Three witnesses, including two of Ziyad's half-brothers, Abu Bakra and Shibl b. Mabad al-Badjali (Tahdhib, iv, 305) so attested as required in Kur'an, XXIV, 4, but Ziyad gave a partial testimony which meant the acquittal of al-Mughira and the flogging of those three. Umar did conceal his relief". Does "partial" mean false in this case? Perhaps a supplementary source could clarify. Al Ameer (talk) 17:18, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- Mughira's EI2 entry says evidence against him "was overwhelming". Also the fact that Umar dismissed him from governorship reveals that his guilt was clear. They just couldn't deny Ziyad's testimony becuase of religious motives. Anyway, adding "impartial" would also be fine. Currently it leaves matter unclear, "supported" can also mean real honest testimony.
- This was a bit confusing for me. The EI2 source says: "Three witnesses, including two of Ziyad's half-brothers, Abu Bakra and Shibl b. Mabad al-Badjali (Tahdhib, iv, 305) so attested as required in Kur'an, XXIV, 4, but Ziyad gave a partial testimony which meant the acquittal of al-Mughira and the flogging of those three. Umar did conceal his relief". Does "partial" mean false in this case? Perhaps a supplementary source could clarify. Al Ameer (talk) 17:18, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- "Uthman was assassinated by rebels and Ali became caliph (r. 656–661)." What is relevance here? Why not add Abu Bakr's death and Umar assassination then? Should be removed I think.
- "His appointment He entered office in June or July 665,..." seems this was either supposed to be a subsection or there is some leftover from a deleted sentence.
- It is important that Ziyad didn't beat around the bush in his inaugural speech and skipped God's and Prophet's praise and went straight to the business. Both EI2 and Wellhausen mention this. We should too.
- "He established unprecedented levels of security in the city, its Iranian dependencies to the west, i.e. Fars and Kerman". east?
- "The Kharijites of Basra, many of whom were concerned more with banditry than politics." This is not a sentence.
- "updating the army registers". Please elaborate a bit.
- "Ziyad's armies under his lieutenant generals al-Hakam ibn Amr al-Ghifari, Ghalib ibn Abd Allah al-Laythi and Rabi ibn Ziyad al-Harithi ultimately reestablished Arab rule over Tukharistan, Balkh and Quhistan." It should be added, with source, that they had previously been lost.
- That Ahl Khurasan destroyed the Umayyad Caliphate in 750 is a fact and doesn't need direct attribution, citation is enough. Should be elaborated though, at least as much as impact of Hujr's execution.
- Although broad enough for GA, some missing elements: cruelty, four Thaqifs (Ziyad, Ibn Ziyad, Hajjaj, Mughira), Hadith transmission, whether he was companion or Tabi'i, alleged authorship of "mathalib" and some other things in EI2 article. Most of them are minor though. (Only a suggestion, GA-wise good enough already. Should be taken into account if and when FAC is considered.)
- @AhmadLX: I will look into these. I've added some info on reports of his cruelty. Do you where we could find something that specifically makes note of the "four Thaqafis of Iraq"? Wellhausen mentions that the Thaqif provided a "superb galaxy of talented men. Mukhtar and Muhammad b. Qasim belonged to them, and many other prominent men besides" and Kennedy notes that with Mughira and Ziyad at the helm some could have considered Iraq and the east to be managed by a "Thaqafi mafia". --Al Ameer (talk) 18:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Al Ameer son: "The defeat of Sulayman and his followers at Resayna was the beginning of a decisive turn in the innner history of the Shiites. The man responsible for that turn in events was Mukhtar b. Abi Ubayd, a Thaqafite like Mughira, Ziad, Ubaydallah and Hajjaj, and no less a man than any of these, although a very different type of person." Wellhausen 1975 Religio-political factions, p.125. I remember seeing this somewhere else as well, but can't recall now.
- @AhmadLX: I will look into these. I've added some info on reports of his cruelty. Do you where we could find something that specifically makes note of the "four Thaqafis of Iraq"? Wellhausen mentions that the Thaqif provided a "superb galaxy of talented men. Mukhtar and Muhammad b. Qasim belonged to them, and many other prominent men besides" and Kennedy notes that with Mughira and Ziyad at the helm some could have considered Iraq and the east to be managed by a "Thaqafi mafia". --Al Ameer (talk) 18:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Sources & Verifiability
- Since you have Madelung, Tabari, and Creswell unused, I would suggest using them and removing some EI2 and Wellhausen citations, given that the article relies heavily on these two and there has been an objection to that in past.
- "Sumayya embarked on the Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca seeking to cure her illness and she was subsequently treated in Ta'if by al-Harith ibn Kalada, ..." According to EI2, it was her owner who was ill and got treatment.
- "In Awana's narrative, Sumayya was given to Ibn Kalada by the Persian dehqan after he treated him." EI2 says he treated a Sassanian king.
- He attended to both, first the king (apparently that's why he was in Persia to begin with according to this narrative), and "later attended the dihkan". I just omitted the part about the king, it all seems quite legendary, but will add it you think it would be better. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:18, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- That Basra was founded in 636 is not in the provided sources and EI2 entry on Basra says it was founded in 638.
- "Ziyad moved to Kufa and maintained intimate ties with al-Mughira and his family." is not in Wellhausen p.121.
- "There were seven such tribal groups in Kufa, at the head of which was a chieftain chosen by the members who served as their representative to the government."
- Their resettlement may have been a means "to defuse possibly dangerous developments" relating to the Arab tribal influx in the garrison towns. Here you've cited 2 sources at the end of the sentence and it will be unclear to the reader which source the quote is from. Secondly, Kennedy doesn't say anything about this proposition directly. I would suggest removing Kennedy.
- "A year after his death, Mu'awiya appointed his son...served successively as governors of Sijistan." Please add source.
Pass. Great Work! Assertion that Khurasanites brought the Umayyads down (see above) should to be expanded. Thanks. AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 14:00, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the thorough review. You never disappoint. I forgot that bit, but will get to it and the other suggestions that you made (sahabi status, etc.) as well. --Al Ameer (talk) 14:28, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion edit
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)