Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-04-30/Paid editing

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• Peter, the article you give as an example, Pixetell, is a good example of how your paid work relates to the work of other editors. The version originally written by the company;s writer was [1] , which was revised on the basis of objections and submitted for review on May 10 2010, as [2][User:DDcook/Article draft]; this was critiqued on the talk page by an excellent and stringent volunteer editor, now only semi-active. I gather you then guided the rewrite to produce the version that is now the basis for the article []http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:DDcook/Article_draft&diff=next&oldid=363454536]. It was then improved further by that volunteer. Your contribution was to guide the user to rewrite properly, but it was the volunteers who found the problems.

I have been similarly asked by paid editors to review their work, and if I approve, move it into article space. This amounts to asking me to do the work of identifying errors, telling them how to correct them, and taking responsibility for the final product. I have recently stopped doing this, for unless I rewrite completely, the final product, though technically acceptable, is not of the quality I would write myself. I'll help volunteers or even naïve editors from an organization with rewriting, or even rewrite for them, but I see no reason why I should do for free the work of someone who is receiving payment for being an expert.

But the consulting you are now doing is of a different order. It includes formal instruction.[3] The Wikimedia Chapter of which I am a member offers similar workshops, without any charge, for anyone in tour geographic area--as do other chapters. I see the role of paid people, whether working free-lance or for the foundation, to be to carry out the necessary work which for a variety of reasons cannot or is not being done by the volunteers--but only that work. I do agree that much of the work you are doing is of that nature, work for which there are insufficient adequately skilled volunteers. You are supplementing the outreach of the WMF staff, and probably doing it better, for you have more Wikipedia experience than any of them. DGG ( talk ) 23:59, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I see this as opening the door, although it's apparently been going on for a while. It drains my interest in improving articles and educating editors, as others are getting paid but not me. Maybe this is best for wikipedia and certainly the wave of the future. So it goes! MathewTownsend (talk) 01:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

• David, since from our past conversations I know you are not shy about speaking up when you see a problem, it means a lot to me that you have found some value in the work I do. I agree with you that paid activities should not replace volunteer activities. I do in some cases, where available, steer clients toward free resources or workshops, in some cases to supplement what I am doing for them, or in others instead of proposing paid work at all. (For instance, I have gotten a couple inbound inquiries that were extremely straightforward, where the caller would have been happy to pay a couple-few hundred dollars to take care of an issue; but if it can easily be taken care of by sending a quick email to OTRS, or making a straightforward request on a talk page, I just send them that way. In some cases that means taking 20 or 30 minutes to put together some clear instructions for them, but I'm happy to do that sort of thing without charging.

The volunteer work I am still motivated to do, though, is generally stuff that it's unlikely anybody would ever pay to do. Recent articles I've worked on are of women in Oregon history, an interesting old ferry boat that was converted to a houseboat famous in 1960s San Francisco counterculture, and the extensive plan drawn up in 1904 that served as the blueprint for Portland's park system. I was never one to work on articles about moderately notable software products as a volunteer to begin with; and judging by the tiny number of Wikipedians that added substantively to the Pixetell article over the years, I don't think I'm the only one. -Pete (talk) 07:39, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

• Peter's name comes up a lot on the issue of paid editing, so it's interesting to get some more perspective on what he does. I feel like there is a slight woosh, because he's focused on GLAM-type projects, where the editors are paid, but there is no COI. This is a bit different from where the controversy is. User:King4057 (COI Disclosure on User Page) 18:27, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

• Though I don't have any GLAM clients, it's true that it's a major area of interest. But every organization engaging with Wikipedia needs to think through how to deal with its conflicts of interest. Every project involving Wikipedia must take stock of relevant COIs, and proceed with a clear and sound plan of how to deal with it ethically. I can't imagine what substantial content improvement project could exist in which COI is simply not a factor. Checking one's motivations and biases is always important when working on Wikipedia content, and all the more so when an organizational decision is involved. -Pete (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

• Sounds to me like Peter's a paid editor by proxy. Same thing as directly editing. Peter tells them what to say, maybe reads over their printouts, maybe even sits right next to them as they edit? I don't really see the difference between "paid editing" and what Peter does. Glad he got friendly with WMF in 2008. Means he's probably immune from suspicion, I guess. I think it's more than a "slight woosh". MathewTownsend (talk) 20:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)