Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 4

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Magic Johnson

I just gave Magic a well-needed facelift. If anyone can fill me in on details of his personal life, his life after 2nd retirement (Scandinavian basketball? Magic as a business man?) his friendship with Isiah Thomas or his impact on HIV prevention, feel welcome to improve. With a little polish, I think Magic could become a GA. Onomatopoeia 17:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I did some gnomish work on the article, mainly wikifying, word choice edits, and rephrasing. Shall try to find some of the content you allude to. Chensiyuan 05:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

This certainly isn't anything with a source, and I don't even really remember many details, but maybe it's something that could be added somehow. I heard Magic Johnson speak a few years ago when he came to a nearby University for a special lecture. He talked about how a lot of his business is specifically targeted to black people. For instance, he owns several Starbucks, which he places in mostly black neighborhoods. And, he talked about movie theaters and specifically targeting them to black people by putting in certain movies and all that. StatisticsMan 16:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's a link to an article which has a couple paragraphs in the middle about his post-NBA business ventures: http://www.usolympicteam.com/11767_32996.htm Commonmen 03:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the link! Chensiyuan 07:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations

I just wanted to congratulate everybody I was looking over an old peer review (early January) of Hakeem Olajuwon, an article I work on and I noticed that Onamatopeia mentioned there were 2 Basketball GA's at that point. Now we have 2 FA's and 9 GA's about 3 months later. Great work everybody! Let's keep it up! Quadzilla99 14:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree; many members have been very helpful in improving some of the recent articles' GA or FA noms. Chensiyuan 11:03, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Coaching templates naming convention

Coaching templates have been created and placed on the main project page. I created several and others have created the rest. However, I think we need some naming consistency for the templates. Currently some templates use the current city and team name, e.g. {{BostonCelticsCoach}}, while others use only the team name, e.g {{BucksCoach}}. I can see an argument for leaving out the city name as some teams have moved repeatedly or may move in the near future. I can also see a need to add the city name for disambiguation purposes. At any rate, I think we should be consistent. Any thoughts? Вasil | talk 15:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Season-by-season record template

Because there are numerous cells to update in the season-by-season records and people often forget to update all the cells (example of not updating W% and totals), I’ve typed out all the necessary code to create a template that would only require editors to update the |wins and |losses values throughout the regular season. The percentages and totals won’t need to be updated, because they will automatically be calculated by the template. The |season, |season_start_wins, and |start_season_losses values only need to be updated during the offseason.

Before I create the template and stick it in any articles, I want to make sure that everybody can understand it and that we can agree to implement it. Perhaps the template name should change, and the variable names should be more comprehensible because a new editor should understand right away what each variable means.

Here’s an example of how it may be used in Toronto Raptors#Season-by-season records:

...
|2005–06 || 27 || 55 || .313  ||   ||  
{{NBA season record
|season = 2006–07†
|wins = 46
|losses = 33
|result = Clinched playoff berth (#3 seed)
|playoffs =  
|season_start_wins = 341
|season_start_losses = 529
}}
|-
!Playoffs || 8 || 12 || .400 ||   ||  
...

will output:
…

2005–06	27	55	.313
2006–07	46	33	.582	Clinched playoff berth (#3 seed)
Totals	386	562	.407
Playoffs	8	12	.400

…

In order to update the table, the editor would only need to change the |wins and |losses:

...
|wins = 47
|losses = 35
...

Will output:
…

2006–07	47	35	.573	Clinched playoff berth (#3 seed)
Totals	387	564	.407

…

Each offseason, the season’s records would be taken out of the template, and the template’s values would be updated for the upcoming season. Hypothetically, if the New York Knicks were now using the template…

{{NBA season record
|season = 2006-07
|wins = 33
|losses = 49
|result =
|playoffs =
|season_start_wins = 2366
|season_start_losses = 2305
}}

…the next season would be prepared thusly:

|-
|2006–07 || 33 || 49 || .402  ||   ||  
{{NBA season record
|season = 2007-08
|wins = 0
|losses = 0
|result =
|playoffs =
|season_start_wins = 2399
|season_start_losses = 2354

Template code:

|-
| {{{season}}}
| {{{wins}}}
| {{{losses}}}
| .{{#expr:{{{wins}}}/({{{wins}}}+{{{losses}}}) * 1000 round 0}}
| {{#if:{{{result|}}}|{{{result}}}| }}
| {{#if:{{{playoffs|}}}|{{{playoffs}}}| }}
|-
! Totals
! {{#expr:{{{season_start_wins}}} + {{{wins}}}}}
! {{#expr:{{{season_start_losses}}} + {{{losses}}}}}
! .{{#expr:{{#expr:{{{season_start_wins}}} + {{{wins}}}}} / ({{#expr:{{{season_start_wins}}} + {{{wins}}}}} + {{#expr:{{{season_start_losses}}} + {{{losses}}}}}) * 1000 round 0}}
!  
!  

What do you think? —LOL 03:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It's great to have someone who knows code! I would support this implementation. Besides, you're the most active in updating team records... although I do notice that many anon editors like to perform incomplete updates as well. I think we can give it a try. Chensiyuan 03:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

This looks like a great template! I wish I'd had it last year when I was working on the old records. >.< On a completely unrelated subject, I wanted to throw an idea out to the group. Since we have a lot of data tables, do you think it would be a good idea to make the SBS tables hidden bars? That way it doesn't make the page look so long, but users can still quickly access the data on the same page, without the need for links to other pages. Should be easy to implement. Thoughts? Kermitmorningstar 00:41, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually quite cool with them as they stand, but if it's really troubling some I suppose you can split them into 2-3 columns. Chensiyuan 07:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Question

I just created a new page on five-by-fives. I also might create a few other pages such as "List of NBA players with at least 9 steals in a game" or something like that. I guess my main question is, what are the criteria for making a page part of this WikiProject? The five-by-five page, for example, has info ONLY on the NBA. But, if some college player achieves one next year, or whenever, it would make sense to put it on the five-by-five page which is really only basketball specific, not NBA. Even if something like that happens, the article will be about 95% NBA. Is this worthy of being in the project?

Also, I have no idea if any of you have any info on five-by-fives but there are a few things I know, such as I know there are two people who have achieved them who are not on the list, but I don't know who these two people are. More details can be found on that page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-by-Five_(Basketball) StatisticsMan 16:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I am impressed by the page you have created. One solution to your question is qualifying the table in the article as something like "NBA players who have achieved the five-by-five". I am personally not familiar with the concept of five-by-five though—my guess it's not as established as something like the double double—well as long as you're certain the article meets WP criteria. Chensiyuan 16:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely not as well-known as a double-double or that sort of thing. I don't know much history of the term or anything like that. But, I've read a few articles which say that Andrei Kirilenko, by achieving five-by-fives, is making the term more mainstream. I don't know who coined the term or when though it would be nice to put that on the page. StatisticsMan 00:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

2003 NBA Draft

Hello dear NBA fans! I have worked on the 2003 NBA Draft several days ago. Now, I nominated it to be a featured list. I would appreciate if you reviewed the article and left comments here. Thanks, Crzycheetah 22:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Anthony Parker

Hi all, have revamped the Anthony Parker (yeah, the other Tony Parker) article in the past few days, hope to raise it to GA very soon. All feedback and edits to improve it are welcome, although I should say that I have found zero information on his off-the-court life, in case you ask. Chensiyuan 04:01, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Awards

For players and their profiles, what constitutes an award? What is merely an honor? We need to draw some guidelines and maintain consistency. Is an All-Star selection an award? Is being an NBA Champion an award? Stats are most certainly NOT awards. Is an All-NBA selection an award or just an honor? How about All-Defensive selections? If we use Jordan's page as the standard for all player's profiles, then All-Star selections are not awards. NBA championships are not awards, and of course neither are stats. All-NBA and All-Defensive selections are awards, however. Thoughts?--TyrusThomas4lyf 00:26, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't think a team championship should be listed as a personal award as for the rest I don't know. This should be here:WP:NBA though. Quadzilla99 00:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I would list all individual awards but no team accomplishments. Aaron Bowen 00:32, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

A very good question is raised here. Selections are honors, Awards are trophies that are given for individual performances. I think this is a standard the NBA Project community should set. Zodiiak 00:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this is the best idea we have thusfar. Perhaps we could add honors as a second line in each player's profile?--TyrusThomas4lyf 00:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The NFL box has several categories, see LT. You could create an honors line and an All-Star line then list the individual All-Stars. All you have to do is change the format in the template, the problem is you would have to change every single infobox on NBA players. That's a concern. If we change it it might get sloppy and half would have the old style and half the new. So I don't know. Quadzilla99 01:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

(undent) One thing I'd be against is records like the NFL box has Wilt for instance has 72 (!). Some infoboxes would just get clunky and we already have lists at the bottom of the articles or the records are mentioned in the text. Quadzilla99 01:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, adding records to the infobox is just plain ridiculous. Selections might be OK. However, it is a concern regarding the updating of all player Infoboxes. But, is this something we could add to the "To Do list"? If the Jordan or Russell article is edited to reflect these changes, it might become a domino effect for all pages. It's tough. Zodiiak 01:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Awards: Individual awards; RoY, DPoY, MVP, Finals MVP --- Honors: All-NBA, All-Defensive, All-Star --- Don't Include: Championships--TyrusThomas4lyf 01:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

(undent) Tyrus before you go around inserting a new format:[1] we need to reach consensus and this needs to stay here for a couple of days so people can comment. It's been less than two hours. Quadzilla99 02:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

LOL. The man's eager. Zodiiak 02:45, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I can code the infobox so that if there is nothing in the honors field, the infobox will display Awards/Honors. How’s that for a temporary solution until every player’s infobox is updated? —LOL 03:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

You would combine Awards and Honors? How about the three category approach like the NFL box:(Lawrence Taylor) All-Stars, Awards, and honors? Or two cats Awards and Honors? Quadzilla99 03:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I think I misunderstood, if honors is blank the word honor won't appear at all that's standard for any infobox. For instance see here:[2] on Minority Report Awards is currently empty but the cat it doesn't show up blank in the article. Quadzilla99 04:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I would combine Awards and Honors only if the honors field is empty. If there were something in the field, the infobox would display Awards and below it, separated by a line break, would be the Honors. —LOL 05:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I would think would just lead to confusion, as people would see Awards/honors combined on one page and separate on another. I can imagine a lot of people wondering why the infobox says Awards/honors on one page and Awards and Honors separately on another. Quadzilla99 05:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I actually think that's a pretty good idea. I'm sure, once the users who edit X page see the changes made in other articles they'll want to format theirs the same. I think it's a good idea. Zodiiak 16:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The thing I'm saying though is it will lead to confusion over what is an award and what is an honor. Of course having both cats will lead to some confusion anyway, I guess once it's implemented on a large scale people will copy the pattern of other articles. This whole thing is going to be a lot of work. We also need to decide what cats to use and what falls in cats. In a couple of days if we reach consensus and decide the whole thing is a good idea, I'll make a proposal for some raw guidelines for what should fall under the cats etc. Quadzilla99 17:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Tyrus’s criteria at 01:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC) looks good to me. If we proceed with a new standard, start with all the featured and good articles. Hopefully, other editors will recognize the new standard and help in updating other players’ infoboxes. When updating the infobox, perhaps we should have an edit summary similar to “Updated infobox to new standard”, with a link to this discussion to raise awareness. —LOL 17:51, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

You know...technically, if Awards was changed to Honors, it would've actually worked the way it is now. An MVP is technically an Honor, as is a selection =P Zodiiak 03:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Well unfortunately it wasn't. So I guess we need to decide whether we want to change the profile titles to honors, or just note the awards under the profiles (what is currently expected). IMO adding honors makes the lists much longer. Some players would stretch near the bottom of the page at that rate (Jordan). If we just want to acknowledge awards under the player profiles, however, then I suggest we proceed by using the differentiation between the two entities as it is found in Career achievements of Michael Jordan to only list awards.--TyrusThomas4lyf 09:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

NBA or National Basketball Association

What is the consensus around here? What should be used in the articles' titles? NBA or National Basketball Association? Examples: NBA Rookie of the Year Award and National Basketball Association Most Valuable Player Award. We can't use both. We need to decide which one is better to use.--Crzycheetah 04:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

My suspicion is that by the time the award is mentioned, National Basketball Association would already have been abbreviated into NBA earlier in the article; hence the short form should be fine. Chensiyuan 04:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the NBA also uses names like "Eddie Gottlieb Trophy for T-Mobile Rookie of the Year", "Maurice Podoloff Trophy for Most Valuable Player", etc. (not that I would recommend any of these as a page title). Not sure whether we need to always spell out the abbreviation. Nobody is disputing that the letters "NBA" have one primary meaning. It should at least be consistent for all articles in the same category (such as awards or seasons), and either title you use, half of all users will link to the redirects instead (which is really a "who cares?" sort of issue). — CharlotteWebb 07:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

See here titles should not use abbreviations. The first time something appears it should not be abbreviated according to the MoS, there are rare exceptions like HBO but in general abbreviations should be unabbreviated when they first appear, and I think this should obviously apply to article titles. Quadzilla99 18:16, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Format Dispute on the 2007 NBA Playoffs article

Hey guys. Recently, user:Howard the Duck, Tyrus and I were debating on the current format of the 2007 NBA Playoffs article, which Howard changed by himslef. Tyrus and I believe that the new format is too awkward and not consistant with the other NBA articles, while Howard believes that the old format is too "bare". The full debate is on the talk page of that article, and my specific views can be seen there. I just wanted a larger concensus from everyone about this issue. What do you guys think? Dknights411 17:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Josh Howard

I listed Josh Howard at peer review and received a response at Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Josh Howard. Now, I've done everything listed there, but the article still needs some touching up and copyediting. Anyone here want to take a stab at it? CAN 03:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism & POV Alert!!!

Hey guys, there has been a LOT of vandalism and POV edits on NBA related articles during the course of these playoffs (the Dallas Mavericks article has gone through so many revisions and reverts since they were eliminated, for example). So everyone on here needs to be on high alert for these types of edits that will most likely appear from now until the Finals. Be alert everyone! Dknights411 18:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Mascots

I feel it would be appropriate for all NBA team pages to list their mascots. NBA mascots are not are popular as College mascots but are still obviously worth a mention and important to the fans. Upon looking for the mascot name listed of my favorite team, I quickly realized most other or maybe all teams do not list their mascots. I do not have a link for an official nba site but here is a list. http://www.rateitall.com/t-5188-mascots-of-the-nba.aspx Additionally, each mascot is accessed through each teams official page although I was not able to find the internal link navigating through the actual page, only through google. Maybe a better googler could find an official looking list although I know of that list to be correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.169.5 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 22 May 2007

Please, attend some games and get free photos of the mascot costumes (or search for the same on flickr) when creating and decorating these articles! See Hooper (mascot) for example. There is no reason for us to rely on "fair use" for team mascots which are still in use. — CharlotteWebb 16:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Rich Gotham

Hi, I created an on Boston Celtics President Rich Gotham. I included it part of this project as it concerns an NBA team's executive. could someone look at the article and help expand it and format it, etc. Black Harry (T|C) 01:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I touched it up just a little bit; also, there are quite a few precedents for you to compare with in Category:National Basketball Association executives, which I added to the article, although of course the quality of the articles vary. It might not be a bad idea to use inline citations too. Chensiyuan 08:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Template:Basketball team start

I'm wondering if it'll be OK with you guys to replace the separate NBA team rosters templates with Template:Basketball team start and Template talk:Basketball team player? --Howard the Duck 09:19, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I've devised templates: {{Hoops team start}}, {{Hoops team player}} and {{Hoops team footer}}; check out Air21 Express. --Howard the Duck 11:11, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Might be of interest...

[3]. Zagalejo 04:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Trade deadline

I've converted Trade deadline from a redirect page to an article stub. I was really, really surprised that there was no article about this significant sports terminology. (The term had redirected to a disambiguation page concerning its purely commercial/financial sense.) However, knowing next to nothing about NBA I'm hoping others can help in expanding the article as regards trade deadlines in NBA, and also correct any errors I may have made in the term's definition etc.. Cheers, A bit iffy 15:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

featured topic

seeing we've got a bunch of GAs and FAs, i wonder if there would ever be a day where "featured topic" is on the cards. i don't know if this is a stretch, but we've got a respectable collection in 50 Greatest Players in NBA History -- two FAs in Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, and several GAs in George Mikan, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson and Hakeem Olajuwon. Chensiyuan 07:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

another possibility is a topic dealing with the spurs team of the past few years which have won a few championships. we've got GAs on Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen, so there's potential there too. speaking of which the Manu Ginóbili article is undergoing some serious renovation so that's something to add. Chensiyuan 08:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Sam Presti

Hi, I checked the page for the New Seattle Sonics GM Sam Presti, and it was still a stub. I also noticed it wasnt included as part of this project, so I added the {{NBA Project}} to its talk page so it can get worked on. One potential source for the article is here. Thanks. BH (T|C) 17:32, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Table for career high stats

I noticed that this information (career highs in every stat) was added to Chauncey Billups with a suggestion that it be converted to a table. If this is going to be a common feature in articles, a template should probably be created. — CharlotteWebb 00:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

GAs and FAs

a little quiet on the GA/FA drives in recent times. any articles ripe for a drive? personally i think Charles Barkley has exhibited potential for some time. i'm also in the process of revamping the Manu Ginóbili article. Chensiyuan 10:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm working Earl Strom, perhaps the greatest referee in the NBA. I have Strom's book and am currently adding details to the article as I come across them. It would be nice to get this to GA status, which would probably be a first for a sports official. RyguyMN 02:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, you can drop me a msg if you need a second opinion on things when you're done. Chensiyuan 02:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

List of NBA All-Stars

Hello. Not to toot my own horn, but I have created a sortable list of NBA All-Stars. --Badmotorfinger 19:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Belated kudos. :0) Zagalejo 23:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well done. Toot. Commonmen 03:17, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Colangelo

Does anyone have a fair-use photo of Bryan Colangelo? It would be greatly appreciated. By the way, unbelievable work keeping the rosters updated everyone. Great Work.

Player Height

What is the norm in listing a player's height? Is it the listed height or the height from training camps (height without shoes). There's been an edit war going on at Kevin Durant between some users and I'd like some clarification on the norm here. Thanks! Corpx 03:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

it's happened at other articles too but usually if nba.com and say espn.com says the same there's not much more to add. of course others would insist that those measurements were pre-NBA and therefore players could have "grown", but it's all a matter of sources. Chensiyuan 07:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

David Stern

Does anyone have any good ideas or sources for improving the David Stern article? The guy's been the Commish of the NBA for the past 23 years, but his entry on Wikipedia doesn't exactly reflect it -- the article could use a lot of work.

I may have some time to work on it myself if someone wants to help me come up with ideas... Joseph Petek 07:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Notable Power Forwards

Just to let y'all know, there is currently a debate at Talk:Power forward (basketball) over the inclusion on a list of today's notable power forwards. A rogue user has repeatedly stated that we need to source each person's notability, and not just their stats (multiple time all-star, MVPs, all-NBA team) Black Harry (Highlights|Contribs) 01:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Colangelo

After a week's work, we got a fair-use picture for Bryan Colanelo. Check out the article: Bryan Colangelo.

Gorjan1 17:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

good stuff, thanks! Chensiyuan 00:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

David Falk Pic

I'm looking for a photo of David Falk that I could use for his article, now that it's fairly complete. I've had my eye on one, but don't know if it's acceptable to use or not. I would appreciate it if someone could 1) tell me if the image I give below is acceptable (in which case upload and post it in the article, or inform me and I can do it), and 2) if this image is not acceptable to use, it would be great if someone could find an acceptable photo.

I found the pic in an article entitled "Falk meets with Sport Management and Law Students," posted on 10/10/2006. The article can be found at this address: <http://hshp.syr.edu/news.asp?id=329&type=archive>

The direct link to the image is: <http://hshp.syr.edu/images/Falk(1).jpg>

I'm wondering if it could fall into fair use since I can only find one other photo (via ESPN). I've tried using a number of free photo searches, including Flickr search, yotophoto.com, and fotosearch.com. An e-mail to the site's administrator asking for the image's release got no response. Joseph Petek 01:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

A question, why would either of the photos you provided links for be acceptable? Having taken a quick look at them, I'm presuming their copyright is rather ambiguous. Chensiyuan 07:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I really don't know. I only joined Wikipedia about a month ago, and don't pretend to know too much about copyright issues for pics. I know it's generally frowned upon to call "fair use" on pics of living persons, but there just aren't David Falk pics out there. But I've also read that you can't necessarily claim fair use just because Wikipedians don't have the resources to take photos of their own... so I don't know. It just seems like using a single photo to depict the main subject of an article shouldn't be disallowed when there's nothing else around, especially when the photo in question is so no-frills... but what do I know? I just wish I could get in contact with the people who maintain the page, but I haven't gotten any response to an e-mail... Joseph Petek 05:04, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Permission is probably the best way to go. Wikipedia is ultra strict on images -- their interpretation of fair use goes beyond fair use really, but that's the way it is. In this case, short of permission being granted to use the pic, you either have to use ur own pics or find them on flickr (be sure to check both the creative commons boxes in "advanced search") -- though i have to say given the absolute dearth of legitimate-to-use NBA pics on flickr, it'd be quite tough. Chensiyuan 06:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Basketball

FYI, all the monthly content for Portal:Basketball is all showing up as redlinks. Is there anyone from this WikiProject that wants to take on putting something there? (I'm also cross-posting this at Wikipedia:WikiProject College Basketball. --BigΔT 05:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Rosters

As I was updating the Pistons roster, I noticed a few things that could be improved. Check this out:

Draft 1

Detroit Pistons roster
Active (12-man) roster	Inactive (3-man) roster
Guards  1 Chauncey Billups (Colorado) (C) 32 Richard Hamilton (Connecticut) (C) 10 Lindsey Hunter (Jackson State)  6 Flip Murray (Shaw) Forwards 12 Ronald Dupree (Louisiana State) 25 Amir Johnson (Westchester High School) 54 Jason Maxiell (Cincinnati) 24 Antonio McDyess (Alabama) 22 Tayshaun Prince (Kentucky) (C) 36 Rasheed Wallace (North Carolina) Centers 34 Dale Davis (Clemson) 13 Nazr Mohammed (Kentucky)	Guards -- Arron Afflalo (UCLA) -- Sammy Mejia (DePaul) -- Rodney Stuckey (Eastern Washington)
	Coaches
	Head Coach Flip Saunders (Minnesota) Assistant Coaches Dave Cowens (Florida State) Michael Curry (Georgia Southern) Igor Kokoškov (Belgrade) Terry Porter (UW-Stevens Point)
	(C) Team captain Roster • Transactions • updated 7/5/07

Any comments or suggestions? In the offseason, there isn't an inactive roster and there are more than 12 players on the active roster, but this is approximately what it would look like during the season. X96lee15 18:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

While this is a nice revision, I would still prefer the current version that we already use. The current version has the colleges and/or nationalities listed, which is a standard already used for other NBA roster listings. I would like to keep that consistency myself. But that shouldn't discourage you from trying though. This is a very nice start. It's just incomplete right now. Dknights411 20:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Dknights411's points, but that said your suggested roster looks really neat. It might be possible to incorporate info on colleges into your roster since its breath hasn't been maximised., i think.Chensiyuan 00:56, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I updated the template based on everyone's suggestions. It now has all the information that is in the current rosters. Worth noting is that once the season starts, there will be 2 less players in the first column and the † and ‡ indicators will be removed. I don't think we need an "injured" indicator, since there isn't an official "Disabled list" (I don't think) as there is in MLB. X96lee15 04:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

My only comment here is that we might not need the inactive players in their own column. Just have one column for the players and one for the coaches. Despite that, I'm starting to love the way this template is shaping up! We should try to iron out the wrinkles and use this template for all the rosters. Great job X96lee15!!! Dknights411 22:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I updated it again based on your suggestions. I also removed 2 players so that the template will look like it really will during the regular season. And thanks for the compliments. I should mention though that I stole the template for the template from MLB rosters :) X96lee15 04:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

It looks a little neater now, but the inactive players should be on the players side, below the active roster. But still a great job. Keep up the good work, you theif!!! ;-) Dknights411 05:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Draft 2

I made my own modifications to the table. Tell me what you guys think...

Detroit Pistons roster
Players	Coaches
Guards  1 Chauncey Billups (Colorado) (C) 32 Richard Hamilton (Connecticut) (C) 10 Lindsey Hunter (Jackson State)  6 Flip Murray (Shaw) Forwards 12 Ronald Dupree (Louisiana State) 25 Amir Johnson (Westchester High School) 54 Jason Maxiell (Cincinnati) 24 Antonio McDyess (Alabama) 22 Tayshaun Prince (Kentucky) (C) 36 Rasheed Wallace (North Carolina) Centers 34 Dale Davis (Clemson) 13 Nazr Mohammed (Kentucky) Reserves -- Arron Afflalo (UCLA) -- Sammy Mejia (DePaul) -- Rodney Stuckey (Eastern Washington)
	Head Coach Flip Saunders (Minnesota) Assistant Coaches Dave Cowens (Florida State) Michael Curry (Georgia Southern) Igor Kokoškov (Belgrade) Terry Porter (UW-Stevens Point)
	(C) Team captain Roster • Transactions • updated 7/5/07

...I'm hoping we can start using these templates as soon as possible. Dknights411 22:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I made modifications to the Spurs template for starters if anyone's interested. Dknights411 04:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome -- they both look really good. Thanks for taking care of that Dknights, I've been really busy with work lately. My only suggestion would be to call the "reserves" "inactive". Is there any other possibilities that we might be forgetting? I'm pretty sure injuries are handled by just making the player inactive. What if the player is out for the year? What about suspensions? When Rasheed gets his 16th T of the season, is he treated as inactive? Or is there a seperate "suspended" list? I'm game for migrating all the rosters how it is though.

Only other thing, what do people think about moving the template names from "Template: Detroit Pistons" to "Template:Detroit Pistons roster"? I think the latter is a better description of what the template is doing. X96lee15 04:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with changing "reserves" to inactive. Overall, though, I'm satisfied with the template. Zagalejo 04:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Draft 3

To be honest, I'm impressed!!! That's a REALLY great revision there (the Westchster HS listing stretches the whole box too much, but that's fairly minor in the scheme of things), and the sorting option is a stroke of genius!!! Great job, I LOVE it! My concern though here is coding. How easy/difficult is it for a newbie user to edit this? Dknights411 05:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, now the height and weight columns are screwing up right now. Is that deliberate or is there a problem with the template? Dknights411 05:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I was going to add the height/weight conversion templates but that was over-kill. --fullcourt 05:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like anons are quickly figuring out how to use this [4]. --fullcourt 22:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Height has to be separated into ft and inches so that 6'10" doesn't come before 6'2". Here's one row:

F/C

84

Webber, Chris (FA)

6 ft 10 in (2.08 m)

245 lb (111 kg)

Michigan

{{player2
| pos = FC | num = 84 | nat = USA
| first = Chris | last = Webber 
| ft = 6 | in = 10 | lbs = 245 
| college = Michigan | note = FA
}}

The height cell is sorted with an invisible "82" (inches). It might be worth setting up a college alias template, so that entering "Michigan" will create a link [[University of Michigan|Michigan]] and so on, just like "USA" creates {{flagicon|USA}}. --fullcourt 05:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Done that part. Should the schools sort by full name or by abbreviated name, or does it matter? --fullcourt 10:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

OK I figure the benefit of doing it this way is that neither I nor the average template updater can be expected to know that "Illinois" means "University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign" or whatever and that some schools have separate articles for the athletic department, etc. Doing it this way only one edit would be needed to change the target of all links when articles are created for specific teams at a college. --fullcourt 15:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Verbose documentation has been added to both of these templates. Should date of birth be added to the rosters also? --fullcourt 07:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

If I could get some kind of feedback here I was wondering if your all screens would generally be wide enough for an extra column, namely "D.O.B.", to allow sorting of the roster by players' age. --fullcourt 21:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I would personally prefer not having a DOB column myself. The table is wide enough as it is. Dknights411 22:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Well if there aren't any other suggestions by next weekend I'll probably finish the rest of the teams. I did notice some anons did a decent job on Template:Houston Rockets. A lot of space could be saved in the narrow columns if there was a way to make the sorting buttons smaller, or to make the columns sortable by clicking on the text itself, but I don't think that is possible. --fullcourt 22:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)