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Donald Ross' profession

There is the famous golf course architect Donald Ross (golfer). We have him specified as a golfer in parentheses on the link for his page. (As you can see.) Though he had some success as a professional golfer he is clearly way more famous as a golf course architect (or "designer"). I would change this title myself but don't know how. Could someone change this?

Thanks,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 01:47, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not 100% clear about the best approach here. I see we have a few articles with titles like: Dick Wilson (golf course architect) (5 by my reckoning). WP:TITLE gives our policy about article names. See WP:PRECISION and WP:TITLEDAB there. "Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but should be no more precise than that." On that basis it seems that the only choices are Donald Ross (golfer) or Donald Ross (architect), and the existing articles with names like Dick Wilson (golf course architect) should be changed to Dick Wilson (architect). Perhaps a WP:RM is required. Nigej (talk) 17:02, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't agree with changing the disambiguator for a golf course architect to simply "architect", because the latter implies they designed buildings and other structures. I am comfortable with changing the article title for Donald Ross to Donald Ross (golf course architect) since that's what he's most known for, as Oogglywoogly has noted. PKT(alk) 21:42, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Given what I read in WP:TITLEDAB, I think we should change it to Donald Ross (architect). Including the phrase "golf course architect" is, in my opinion, way too long for a title. Users can easily click on the page to determine that Ross was an expert in golf course design.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 01:42, 3 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Another issue here is whether he is actually the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and should be plain "Donald Ross". A google search for "Donald Ross" produces links mostly to him. Based on page views [1] he perhaps//probably is the primary topic, in which case it might be better to pursue that line first. Nigej (talk) 07:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm thinking now that a WP:RM (at his talk page) is the only way forward here. Just need to decide what. Nigej (talk) 07:38, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nigej, You make a good point and I think you are right. Though he has a common name it looks like the golf course designer is the most famous Donald Ross and therefore there is no need for a qualifier. I am also fine with bringing this up on his talk page.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hello User: Nigej (and others),

I began a discussion on Ross' talk page here about changing his blue link. Please contribute if interested.

Thanks, Oogglywoogly (talk) 20:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

That's not going to work, since this sort of "move" can't be done by normal users. We need to follow a formal system as covered by WP:RM. We'd be proposing to move Donald Ross to Donald Ross (disambiguation) and Donald Ross (golfer) to Donald Ross. This is covered at Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Requesting_multiple_page_moves. I've added a nomination at his talk page. Nigej (talk) 05:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi Nigej, Thanks for creating the new post. I just responded. If other golf editors like User: Wjemather, User: Jimmymci234, and User: Tewapack are inclinded to responded please do so.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 19:46, 7 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hi Nigej, I just saw Ross' talk page for the first time in a while. It looks like our effort to change the golf course designer's blue link to the standard Donald Ross has failed. However, I originally brought up this issue because I wanted to change his blue link from "golfer" to "architect." Could we try to do that?

Thanks, Oogglywoogly (talk) 04:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hi PK,

When you have time could you please let me know what you think about the immediately above statement. Even if you disagree it would be nice to get the ball rolling with editing Ross' link. It looks like the earlier proposal didn't go through.

Thanks,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 18:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Hi Oogglywoogly - if you're asking if I'm OK with using 'architect' as the disambiguator instead of 'golfer' for Mr. Ross, I can concur with that. As I wrote before he's known as a golf course architect rather than a building architect (as we golfers all know) but I'm comfortable with the simpler option. I hope that answers your question - if I missed your point please clarify. Regards, PKT(alk) 19:17, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

We need to wait until the WP:RM is formally closed. Seems likely to be a "no". If it ends up that way I'd suggest another RM with a proposal to move to "(architect)" and see what comments we get. I think that even this move is "potentially controversial" and also another discussion would carry more weight than just moving it ourselves (which would be possible in this case). Nigej (talk) 05:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Nigej and PK for your responses. Ok, let's wait until a resolution has been made re: the current discussion. Assuming we get a rejection, let's create a new discussion to change the current blue link from "golfer" to "architect" (or some variation of "architect"). I have to say I'm a little in shock that even this proposal may be controversial as Ross is so obviously associated as a designer and not as a touring professional. Alas, we can have a full discussion of the matter with administrators and such to figure out the best solution.

Also, users User: Jimmymci234 and User: Wjemather are free to contribute to the discussion once it starts.

Sincerely,

Oogglywoogly (talk) 02:46, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

On September 30, the discussion was closed with a "Not moved" consensus. User: Nigej, could you please start another discussion in an attempt to change the title of Ross' profession from "golfer" to "architect" (or some variation of that). Thanks, Oogglywoogly (talk) 03:44, 5 October 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Ludvig Åberg

Time to decide how much the Ludvig Åberg article should cover. Since he had a long amateur career and having a very promising professional career ahead of him it felt reasonable to be very detailed on his early life and amateur career. As his professional career continues it seems unneccassary to still describe every amateur invitation to professional tournaments in detail. I suggest a shortened early life and amateur career part. And should birth date really be repeated in early life section as it is mentioned in intro and info box? EEJB (talk) 12:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I placed the tag on the amateur career section, so of course I agree – it does need substantial pruning. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:36, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I will try, but I hope no one put it back, please. Thanks for cooperating. Regards, EEJB (talk) 06:56, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

ok now? Enough to remove the note? EEJB (talk) 08:27, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Generally these excesses seems to happen when there's a personal connection and they're trying to "hype" the achievements. John Axelsen comes to mind, which could do with a trim if someone's in the mood. Nigej (talk) 11:35, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Laura Davies

I've worked a lot trying to complete the Laura Davies article with LET wins, playoffs and yearly facts. Unfortunaly very difficult to find. The LET web site doesn't have much history. There is a LET Information centre site, but some tournaments are missing there.

If anyone can, please, a review and some fact checks will be appreciated. Regards, EEJB (talk) 12:12, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

U.S. Open coverage in Oz

Hello everyone - both List of U.S. Open (golf) broadcasters and U.S. Open (golf) there are statements that say "In Australia, from 2015 Fox Sports Australia is the exclusive broadcaster of the U.S. Open until 2018." Can somebody please source an update to this statement, with a reference? Cheers, PKT(alk) 16:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

OWGR winner's points updates

What's the best way to reflect the new multi-win bonus? [2] Would it just be to include a footnote for cases where it's used? pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 18:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah prob most likely. Will be easier to assess when it comes to fruition. Jimmymci234 (talk) 18:18, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I suspect it'll be quite common. I'd be inclined to just ignore it in the tour articles, but we could add a symbol to indicate that the winner got the bonus. Can't really see the need to give the actual number after the bonus. Nigej (talk) 18:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Western Province Open

I have recently made a lot of edits to the Western Province Open. On the original winners list it stated that Alf Padgham won the "Western Province golf championship." However, for the subsequent 19 seasons I could find no evidence of this tournament. I maintained Padgham's win on the table but suspect the 1930s event was an entirely different tournament. This idea seems to be affirmed by 1970 champion Bobby Walker who was from Scotland. In the report I have it states that he "became the first overseas player to win the Western Province open golf championship." (Padgham was also British.) Thoughts?

Oogglywoogly (talk) 17:39, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Nick Faldo

After reading the Nick Faldo article, I think there are too much intricate negative personal details, not suitable for an encyclopedia. There are also notes concerning potentially libelous material in the article. Opinons? What should be removed? Regards, EEJB (talk) 10:31, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

I regard the Nick Faldo#2008 Ryder Cup captaincy as very excessive, per WP:UNDUE. We don't normally go into anything like this detail about captaincy. And its clearly excessive when compared to the details we have about his playing appearances in the Ryder Cup, which are clearly much more important. Surely one paragraph somewhere is sufficient on his captaincy. Nigej (talk) 10:59, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. In addition, there may be too much information about his marriages in his Personal life section. It seems to go into excessive detail about his divorces.

Oogglywoogly (talk) 17:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Oogglywoogly

Tom Morris Jr.

Currently Tom Morris Jr. is an article about a TV personality, while Tom Morris, Jr. redirects to Young Tom Morris. (Sr. both with and without the comma redirect to Old Tom Morris.) The yearly Open Championship articles refer to then as Jr. and Sr. rather than Young and Old; a user doing article cleanup just removed the commas from the names in those articles, resulting in numerous links to the TV personality.

I'm not sure what the best solution is here, but it seems like Tom Morris Jr. and Tom Morris, Jr. ought to link to the same place, even if that's a disambiguation. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 21:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, a mess. See WP:JR/SR which allows both options but doesn't discuss the confusion if both are used for different people. Probably a WP:RM or similar is required. Nigej (talk) 09:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Multiple winners section

I have noticed for a lot of our tournament pages we have a Multiple winners section. For example, see the pages for the South African Open or Phoenix Open or St. Jude Classic. I think these sections are clearly extraneous as we already denote multiple winners in parentheses in the Winners table. Thoughts?

Oogglywoogly (talk) 21:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)