Wikipedia talk:How ITN works (and how it doesn't)

Is enough

23 is high enough: Depending on how neutral this essay is intended to be, it might be better to state that a disaster with X deaths was posted before. Leave it for the reader to interpret if that will be "enough" in the future.—Bagumba (talk) 11:55, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

• It's perhaps important to spell out that poor article quality can explain why even a high death toll is not posted. But 113 is not enough in Ethiopia - reading the discussion, it probably would have been if the article had ever progressed beyond a stub.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:03, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

  @Pawnkingthree, @Bagumba: I agree with both of you that I think a deeper dive into the tolls are necessary, since as an IP editor pointed out on WT:ITN, the Norway/Ethiopia divide looks quite stark and disgusting at first glance. I'm just unsure whether to have further exposition included as footnotes, or just go into greater detail as I've done for the "Mass shootings" section. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:44, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Feedback (as requested)

I thought I should paste this here, in addition to my talk page:

1. First impression, a shorter essay might get more reads. That could be feedback that is as much about me and my preferences than a valid critique. But my desire for brevity does influence all following comments, which are couched in the assumption that you might agree to edit it down a little:
2. "Items favored/disfavored" is very valuable advice, so so the emphasis that it's very inconsistent (that makes the opposition feel less personal)
3. The three tips in the "International notability" section are helpful.
4. "Examples of items that won't get posted" feels half repetitive of what is disfavoured in the "Items favored/disfavored" section
5. The introductoary caveat at "What is a high enough death toll?" seems unnecessary in the context of this being an essay (i.e. clearly none of this is a guideline)
6. The "how many deaths is high enough" part might be more concise as a table.
7. Differentiating between "mass shooting" and "terrorism" is always a very interesting exercise as I think it's a very political act to call something one of the other, even if the English speaking western world seems to have approximate consistency, it seems to be religion and race and nation influenced rather than dispassionate logic. Absolutely a wider issue than this essay.
8. In general I think it would be possible to significantly reduce this essay to less than half the number of lines and I think doing so would increase readership.
9. And in general I think it is very helpful for the newbies. I hope it is part of a wider effort to make the process easier.

CT55555(talk) 22:13, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Comment

This was a joy to read. I'm surprised I don't remember seeing this page before, eventhough MINIMUMDEATHS is of course brought up all the time. There's a lot of different perspectives on how ITN does and doesn't work; for the most part this page is just extremely recognizeable, but it's also very helpful for sparking questions like why certain things are the way they are. I particularly appreciate the framing of the minimumdeaths section. A few months back I recorded an impromptu Youtube video going through my personal perspective on ITN. It's just a long ramble and I didn't intend to advertise it, but it might be of vaguely similar interest. I think the alignment with how ITN works and its stated Purpose is particularly interesting. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)