Wikipedia:Peer review/Rockstar San Diego/archive1

Rockstar San Diego

I've listed this article for peer review because I have been adding to it on-and-off for the past three years (passing GA one year ago) and am eyeing a potential FA. The article is mostly history, so flow, wording and order are especially important.

Thanks, IceWelder [✉] 19:12, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

STANDARD NOTE: to get quicker and more responses to pre-FAC peer review requests, please remember to add your PR page to Template:FAC peer review sidebar. And when you close this peer review, please be sure to remove it from there. Also consider adding the sidebar to your userpage so you can help others by participating in other pre-FAC peer reviews. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:18, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Panini

Word flow suggestions:

Early year

• "...seeking to become a film director, moved from his hometown, Medellín in Colombia, to Chicago in 1971 and enrolled at Columbia College Chicago to study film. He also attended the Art Institute of Chicago." -> "...seeking to become a film director, moved from his hometown, Medellín in Colombia, to Chicago in 1971. He enrolled at Columbia College Chicago to study film, later also attending the Art Institute of Chicago."
• "...could not run a business and be an art director at the same time, while also lacking the knowledge to operate the computers. He soon hired an art director and a systems operator." -> "...could not run a business and be an art director at the same time, while also lacking the knowledge to operate the computers; he soon hired an art director and a systems operator."
• "Angel later described the company's first two years in business as "suffering" due to a scarcity of work." "Angel later described how he was "suffering" in the company's first two years in business due to a scarcity of work."
• I don't believe "(his wife's sister's husband)" needs to be mentioned considering that brother-in-law was immediately linked before.
• "According to Angel Studios employees" -> "According to employees at Angel Studios"
• "...Angel treated them like family, paying them well, giving them plenty of vacation time, and occasionally sharing a bottle of Patrón-brand tequila, dubbed "Sippy Wippy", on Friday afternoons." -> "..Angel treated them like family; he payed them well, gave them plenty of vacation time, and occasionally shared a bottle of Patrón-brand tequila, dubbed "Sippy Wippy", on Friday afternoons."
• "The team also developed an algorithm with which they could visually transform a jet fighter into a dolphin with just a few tweaks" I don't understand this sentence, and why its purpose is a necessity.
• "Angel Studios was later working on a virtual reality game adaptation of its scenes for the movie." -> " Angel Studios later worked on a virtual reality game adaptation of its scenes for the movie"

Panini^🥪 11:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I did the wording changes. I'm conflicted about the removal of "his wife's sister's husband" as 'brother-in-law' generally refers to the sibling of one's spouse, not the spouse of that sibling. The source uses both in the same manner. IceWelder [ ✉] 08:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Would "sister-in-law's husband" work? – Rhain ☔ 09:07, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I would also prefer the use of hyphens instead of parenthesis; "...–his wife's sister's husband–...". I just really don't like them because they almost seem unprofessional to me. Panini^🥪 11:31, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I figured that "the brother-in-law of Angel's wife" was the best alternative here, as the wife was already mentioned and the relevant term remains "brother-in-law". IceWelder [✉] 12:09, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Entry into video games

• "The development consumed a total budget of $1 million." Using the word "consumed" here just doesn't feel right to me. Unless this is a business term I'm unaware of, we can call a spade a spade.

Other

• Crunch time, producer, and Red Dead Redemption 2 have duplicate links.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Panini! (talk • contribs) 14:13, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Done that, thanks. IceWelder [✉] 22:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Comments from SandyGeorgia

I am slowly catching up on peer reviews after three weeks of my computer being out for repair; I will weigh in here soon, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

• My general information about approaching FAC is at User:SandyGeorgia/Achieving excellence through featured content. The top part of the essay is mostly focused on my area of editing (medical content), but there is more general information towards the bottom.
• No duplicate links, no wayward WP:DASHes vs hyphens, and no MOSDATE issues picked up by scripts.
• * There is overuse of however (where there is no contradiction) and also. See overuse of however and User:John/however. See User:Tony1/How to improve your writing for good information on these plagues of Wikipedia; also is almost always redundant, and it often is here.
• The prose here is not ready for FAC: I strongly recommend going through Tony1's exercises and contacting WP:GOCE about a copyedit. Looking at one paragraph only (the one that popped up when I did my "however" check):

  • Rockstar San Diego began developing Agent, an open-world stealth game for the PlayStation 2 and Xbox, in 2003. The development team leadership was mostly the same as that of Rockstar San Diego's 2001 game Transworld Surf, headed up by producer Luis Gigliotti. In favor of developing Agent, the team ceased work on an untitled Justice League game that was still being conceptualized. Unlike prior Angel Studios games, Agent began a prototype stage with a full-size team. This team was given little time to complete this prototype, leading to much crunch at the studio. Rockstar Games also removed studio-wide vacations after successfully reaching milestones or launching a game, a change many employees felt was abrupt. Some Rockstar San Diego artists traveled to Cairo and Washington, D.C., two locations Agent was to be set in. The four artists that traveled to Cairo took "over 10,000" of such photographs. In both cases, artists were detained by the local police forces; it was resolved quickly in D.C. but took significantly longer for those situated in Cairo. However, both teams could eventually return with the photographs they had taken and development was able to continue. At the same time, Rockstar Games and the Houser brothers kept requesting changes so frequently that the studio was not able to keep up, leading to overwork and more crunch.

  How about something like ...

  • Rockstar San Diego began developing Agent, an open-world stealth game for the PlayStation 2 and Xbox, in 2003. Headed by producer Luis Gigliotti, most of the Transworld Surf development team leadership was involved. The team switched from working on a concept for an untitled Justice League game in favor of developing Agent. Unlike prior Angel Studios games, the prototype stage fir Agent began with a full-size team. This team was given little time to complete the prototype, leading to crunch at the studio. Rockstar Games removed studio-wide vacations after successfully reaching milestones or launching a game – a change many employees felt was abrupt.
  • Four Rockstar San Diego artists traveled to Cairo and Washington, D.C. – two potential settings for Agent. They took "over 10,000" (why the quotes?) of such (what is meant by of such?) photographs. In both locations, artists were detained by the local police forces it was (what is it referring to ?) resolved quickly in D.C. but took significantly longer for those situated in Cairo. However, both teams could eventually return Both teams eventually returned with their photographs they had taken and development was able to continue continued. At the same time, Rockstar Games and the Houser brothers kept requesting requested changes so frequently that the studio was not able to keep up, leading to overwork and more crunch.

  "Headed up" is redundant and informal.

  Oh, but Transworld Surf hasn't been mentioned at this point.

  Much crunch is crunch ... informal and redundant.

  Also redundant

  Wording is just not tight ... this is one sample only of why an independent copyedit would help.

• See MOS:DTAB on making tables accessible
• Reduce MOS:ALLCAPS, sample, "ANGEL STUDIOS JOINS NINTENDO ULTRA 64 DREAM TEAM; World renowned computer graphics studio makes transition from "The Lawnmower Man" and MTV award-winning music videos to develop game for Nintendo's 64-bit home video game system"

Good luck going forward, no need to get back to me on any of this, which I hope is useful, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:51, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: Thank you so much for your input! I have performed a bit of copyediting that should resolve a few of the points you mentioned:

• All uses of "however" and most "also"s are scrapped
• The two tables now have a caption for screenreaders (via {{sronly}}, which was recently recommended to the VG project)
• ALLCAPS titles in sources are converted to Title Case
• I tried clarifying the prose around Agent a bit. It somehow got lost that they were taking reference photographs (the "such photographs") in Cario and D.C., which is now reinstated.
• Regarding the date of the Dinero source: The website, for whatever reason, used mdy (cf. this random article I pulled from the Wayback Machine). This would indicate that the date was indeed May 2 rather than February 5 and the website's metadata strengthens this.

Would you be available to again check these elements for compliance?

Lastly, given that you find my writing subpar, I will engage the GOCE a second time soon. An English native speaker will most likely perform better at this than me. I will additionally take some time in the near future to thoroughly read your and Tony1's advice on writing to see how I could improve the article. Regards, IceWelder [✉] 12:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I will circle back after I get through the rest of the articles listed on the sidebar ... quite far behind because of no computer for three weeks. Hope that bit I was able to do quickly was helpful to get you going ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)