Wikipedia:Peer review/Popotan/archive1

Popotan edit

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I've listed this article for peer review as I believe I have finally found a source that I was looking for that could possibly stand up at an FAC review linking the game to the caramelldansen meme. The article had been languishing at GA-status for a while, but with this I would like to have it checked out. There may be a bit more info in the official handbook, but I have to go over it carefully since its in Japanese and my skill level with that is relatively limited. Barring that info (most likely it would be development or character info), I'm seeing what is good and what could be improved.

Thanks, 陣内 _Jinnai 00:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is all just basic observations. I haven't taken time to read the article in any detail.

I'm pretty sure that it is bad form to have singular subheading/subsection under a parent heading/section. There should be at least two sections under a parent sections if there are any subsection to begin with. Considered combining the subsections into its parent section or further spiting the parent section into additional subsections. For example, combine "Development" and its subsection "Release information" into a singular "Development and release" section. "Anime series" similarly needs to be addressed, probably by giving the first part of the section its own subheading.
There is an excessive amount of references. A statement generally needs one reference to fulfill WP:V. However, several statements have up to four references. Having that many references disrupts the reader's ability to read and ultimately comprehend the content. Consider removing redundant references unless they are absolutely needed (such as the first reference not fully support the statement) or switching to Harvard style referencing similar to what is used on Manga.
A {{clearleft}} should be added at the end of "Gameplay". This will prevent the next section from wrapping around the the image in and unsightly way on wider screens. In fact, it is generally a good idea to add a {{clear}} or one if its variants to any section with a floating object where you don't want the next section to wrap around the object.
One other issue I spotted is that the date format in the reference section is not consistent. Just as with dates in the article, the dates in the reference section should have a consistent format, either matching the format used in the body or YYYY-MM-DD (MOS:DATEUNIFY). I generally prefer the former over the latter. —Farix (t | c) 12:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have for now. —Farix (t | c) 12:08, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I reduced some referencing. I'll tackle the dates later. I tried to use {{clearleft}}, but it just made the page look worse with huge whitespace (because of the large caption).陣内 _Jinnai 00:59, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by David Fuchs

{{doing}} Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
initial comments and impressions, more to come, prolly:
- "The title Popotan is meant to reflect the prominence of dandelions, spelled tanpopo (たんぽぽ?) in Japanese;[n 1] "Popotan" is a nonsensical word, comparable to saying "liondandy" in English.[1][2][3] It also uses the flipped "-tan" to call the dandelions by name." — Is this really that important? It doesn't spell out where or how dandelions are prominent, and giving us a language lesson in the middle of the lead seems odd and undue weight for the matter.
- "The game uses character position and size to show the characters' relative relation to the protagonist. Ai (left) is closer while Mii (right) is off to the side of the room further away." — This caption seems odd; why is describing a basic principle of perspective relevant to the game?
- "A special music mini-game commences at certain points in Mii's scenario." Who's Mii? This hasn't been introduced.
- "Finishing Ai's scenario unlocks a new story featuring Unagi. " — Same as above. Should the character/synopsis setting come before this?
- "...though certain explicit scenes were removed." — Source?
- "Various sculptures and buildings feature a flower motif, and every scene contains actual vegetation or floral symbols." That last part seems like it needs a citation.
- A lot of the "characters" section is redundant with story information given in the next subsection.
- "The first release of Popotan on CD-ROM suffered critical errors, such as memory problems and the inability to get certain girls despite following their path correctly. " This means what, exactly?
- "Petite Ferret issued a hot fix on January 10, 2003" — a "hot" fix?
- For the chart rankings, just using numerals instead of spelling out rankings would make it a lot easier to read.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:12, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- - As for the name, knowing the name is probably somewhat key to understanding it as it plays a central role in both the visual novel and moreso the anime. There is one point in the first episode of the anime where they actually have one of the characters ask "Aren't those dandelions? (Tanpopo in the Japanese language version)" and they respond in the negative reaffirming that they are "Popotan". As for the lesson itself, it could be removed I suppose, but it should be made clear that it is still a nonsensical word based on Tanpopo aka dandelion.
  - The first screenshot has the caption because the text mentions that character position zooms in-and-out and back-and-forth based on their relative position to the player so mentioning that in the screenshot shows the relative positions of the characters. I guess maybe a second screenshot would help clarify it? Although I'd hate to add too many fair-use images.
  - Video game articles are structured to have gameplay before plot and characters because (i guess) its generally viewed as more important. If visual novels are going to be an exception, I'd have to bring that up at Visual novel task force and perhaps the main video game wikiproject. I can wikilink to the characters and mention maybe a 2-word objective description in gameplay, but anything more would be radial departure from the standard layout.
  - "...though certain explicit scenes were removed." — Source? - The source is the game itself. I have both copies and it is general Sony policy to not allow Adult-rated material for PS2 games. I can remove the word "explicit" or "certain explicit" if that is the problematic word, but i'm. using the video games as general sources (i'd use more specific, but {{cite video game}} is missing some key elements that core has not implemented (in spite several attempts to ask them to) that are needed for a proper non-linear format.
    I'm not sure otherwise how to explain something where one would expect to explain that the storyline differs in each version, but only with specific content. The websites don't mention this nor do the games and they are both rated CERO18, but it is considered common knowledge that PS2 games could not contain explicit sex scenes.
  - Character section - I'll have to look at that.
  - "The first release of Popotan on CD-ROM suffered critical errors, such as memory problems and the inability to get certain girls despite following their path correctly. " This means what, exactly? - I don't remember the memory problems (I don't know if those were detailed, but I could check) and the latter meant that if you played the game properly (like following a walkthrough) you could still not "win", ie get the romantic ending/sex scenes with certain girls. I don't know what happened exactly to stop that nor which girls; the details were not mentioned in their patch.
  - hot fix - I'll rephase it. It's essentially an urgent patch to fix critical aspects that make a program unplayable or unbeatable. I'll see what others have used here.
  - I think I did, but some indy copyeditors I asked must have spelled things out.陣内_Jinnai 21:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I would say that given that explicit is a variable definition and you cannot attribute citation to graphic elements within a video game that it really needs a better source as material likely to be challenged. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 18:48, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Okay well I recently found out they re-rated the game for the PS2 as CERO D. If I could find something similar for the PC game as CERO Z, would that suffice given that its verifiable both from primary and secondary sources that the game is sexually explicit? The lower grading for D was created specifically for games that weren't quite as explicit sexually or violently.陣内 _Jinnai 19:16, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]