Wikipedia:Peer review/Nadia Ali/archive1

Nadia Ali

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I have done some work on the article with more relevant content. I would like some feedback to get it to a Good Article rating.

Thanks, Hassan514 (talk) 03:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

• I'll post some comments soon, I should have a decent amount of free time now.... CrowzRSA
  • Thanks so much, that would help a lot! Hassan514 (talk) 02:01, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

CrowzRSA comments

• What verifies Ali released two collaborations in 2009, the first "Better Run" with Tocadisco was released on his album TOCA 128.0 FM in September 2009 and the single was released in January 2010. "12 Wives In Tehran" with Serge Devant was released on his album Wanderer in June 2009, and the single was released in December 2009.?
  • This is a problem I face with music in the EDM genre, since it's not mainstream, it's hard to find reviews and most of the artists release these things over facebook which as you have said isn't a reliable source. The songs have been released but what do I reference to? Particularly since something like a itunes, beatport or amazon link won't be acceptable.
    •  Done Ref added (albeit not sure if allmusic is an acceptable one?)
• …it was her songwriting that got me hook, line and sinker".[12] should be her songwriting that got me hook, line and sinker."[12]
  •  Done Ref added
• What verifies Ali was featured on MTV Iggy in March 2009, where she recorded three live acoustic videos, performing "Rapture", "Crash and Burn" and "Love Story".?
  •  Done Ref added
• There are no references in the first section of "Solo career"
  • Same problem as I've described earlier with the other collaborations.
    •  Done added refs
• The lead should at least double in size.
  • I'm honestly not sure what more to add to it, could you please make some suggestions?
• What verifies Using that inspiration, she decided to use the playing card "Queen of Clubs" as the title, a move she described as 'audacious' but something she felt she could prove because she had the substance.[15] The package was broken into three releases - Ruby Edition (August 2010), Onyx Edition (October 2010) and Diamond Edition (December 2010). It featured collaborations with, and remixes by several prominent DJs and Producers. Notable ones included Armin van Buuren, Tocadisco, Schiller, Gareth Emery, Avicii, Morgan Page, Sultan & Ned Shepard, DJ Shah, TyDi, Myon & Shane 54, Andy Moor, Dresden and Johnston, Afrojack, the Scumfrog, Alex Sayz, Starkillers and Max Graham.?
  • Again, the same issue, what exactly should I link since I can only find links to the Ruby and Onyx edition in third-party websites. (Edit: sorry meant blogs with illegal download links)
    •  Done added refs, though to last.fm
      • Last.fm isn't a reliable source, but most of the stuff on there can be found at allmusic and is often in album notes. CrowzRSA 15:59, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
• What verifies She was also a featured guest on his "Atemlos" tour.?
  • Removed since I couldn't find anything besides a facebook post
• MySpace is not a reliable source.
  • I do realise MySpace is not the best source but sadly in this case her blog is the best source, most interviews of hers or features on her cover her time as iIO biefly, it doesn't go in detail at all about how she was discovered, such as her working for Versace and then quitting, all they say is when she was 17 she started working at Versace, which is correct but it was only 3 years later that she met Moser.
• YouTube is also unreliable, and that video may be a copyright violation.
  • I have been conscious of that myself so all the videos I have linked are from her Official Youtube Channel or her Record's Channel. I do feel that without the interview she has uploaded from Voice of America on her record's channel, I would have a hard time expanding the "Early Years" section as I have now.
    • Removed link to one video, I have left the VOA interview and the IDMA nomination. Neither are available on the VOA and IDMA website anymore and only on Ali's channels.
• Facebook isn't reliable either.
  • I have the same problem here, the upcoming collaboration with Sander van Doorn and Sidney Samson is only announced on her twitter and facebook page, same is the case with her first single from her new album. There's no other websites talking about it. Should I just simply delete?

-CrowzRSA 17:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, made corrections and referenced a lot of the facts which weren't. If there's anything else I can add, please let me know! Hassan514 (talk) 13:09, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Review by Keraunoscopia

• "becoming one of the most recognisable vocalists" — WP:WEASEL phrase, should be rewritten, or cut out. "prominent producers" may have similar issues. Prominent by whose standards?
• Ali's MySpace blog is a nice source of information, though if you can get the information from secondary sources, rather than this primary source, that would be preferable. WP:PRIMARY
  • I have tried to veer off it as much as I can, but the detail of her start in music and how exactly she met Moser was only available here.
• "Nadia Ali was born in Libya to Pakistani parents in 1980. The family relocated to Queens, New York shortly after and has remained there ever since.[1]" This entire sentence is cited by the MySpace blog, but nowhere in the source does it mention Pakistani parents or that the family relocated to Queens. I highly recommend going through the entire article and making sure every citation is correct. I know from personal experience that citations can easily get mixed up during major edits, no matter how careful you think you're being!
  • My mistake, I honestly have never worked properly on the Early Years section, leaving it intact and focussing more on her solo career. I have also rephrased that sentence based on the information I had to show how long she lived in Libya to that she grew up in Queens, not that she moved there directly.
• "avoid causing problems in the future with Sony" — clarify. Was there a potential for a lawsuit?
  • Added that she worked on a Sony VAIO laptop, with them using Vaiio as group name the possibility of a probable lawsuit.
• In the "Early years" section, the text is confusing and not very focused. Ali is introduced to the music industry, but suddenly the text begins talking about a single. What single? She was writing lyrics for what songs?
  • Clarified it, added more background based on the interviews I had access to. Like I said before, I have mostly neglected this section but worked on it now.
• "by the likes of" — avoid jargon like this. Read through the entire article and change it. GA articles should read somewhat professional (though not as professional as FA).
  • Removed links to remixers
• According to WP:MOS, phrases like "number one" should be changed to No. 1. Do not use the hash (#) symbol (avoid "#1 hit", for example).

 Done

• Several quotes use single quotation marks. Double quotation marks should be used for quotes, unless it's a quote within a quote.
  •  Done
• "Chase Gran from About" — the website is actually called About.com, with the ".com"
  •  Done
• "The package was broken into three releases -" — replace the hyphen with a colon (:)
  •  Done
• "It featured collaborations with, and remixes by several" — should have a comma after "by"
  •  Done
• I'm not checking all the references, but spot check here: "She is also a featured guest on his Armin Only tour.[16]" turned up that this information is not in the reference. Again, I would make sure every citation is correct.
  • t is mentioned on the third page of the interview, I just used one main reference to link to all the facts I have linked to that article, should I remove that?
• "Her work has been likened to Madonna's in her prime" — Awkward phrasing. In whose prime?
  • Changed
• "She lists her main influences as Stevie Nicks, Sade, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, U2, Madonna, Led Zeppelin, Carole King and Carly Simon.[27]" — once again, not a single item cited here appears in the reference.
  • Changed, the archive seems to not have it and her official biography seems to have been changed since I used the material. I have added influences based on third party sources.

Well, I think the citations situation needs to be resolved immediately. The prose of the article is kind of clunky, but I would blame this on the excessive listing of names and remixes; a lot of names filling up the article, which is probably difficult to work around on pop music articles, especially artists of dance-type genres. The article doesn't seem very comprehensive, though. I feel like there should be a lot more information. Regarding citations, I see MySpace, Facebook, an official website, and a photobucket image. These all need to be replaced with reliable secondary sources unless it is absolutely impossible to find anything else. But this shouldn't be a problem. I find it best to find a good solid quote, Google that quote, and you should be able to find another source with the info. The Discogs link needs to be removed from the External Links section. See WP:LINKSTOAVOID. I would work a lot more on the prose and try to make it easier to read and less crowded with names, which doesn't really help the reader any (I have no clue who they are; why are they important?). Finally, I would check the entire article against WP:MOS. I found several instances of grammar and punctuation problems besides the few I listed above. To be honest, I think if GA is your goal, then there's a lot of work that needs to be done. Hope this helps you out some. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 06:02, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your extensive feedback, I definitely do appreciate it since after working on the article for a while I was definitely not picking up a lot of mistakes which have been pointed out. I have added more information in the early years section as how she was inspired to sing, not just randomly decided and more on how the group was formed. Also at that point the difficulties she faced with her family and her unique postion as a Pakistani woman in EDM (unless this wasn't essential?). I have also added more information on her decision to form her own record label. What else do you suggest I need to add to make the article proper. The reason I have added personal links like MySpace and Facebook are simply because there is no alternative to the information provided on them. I have mentioned this earlier, there's no links to her upcoming work besides that on Facebook. Also, the photobucket link is actually a photograph of an interview in a magazine, which has been referenced. I have simply used it for that unless it is not appropriate. With the DJs mentioned, I do understand the problem you mentioned and I have cut it down significantly after being suggested to do by a fellow editor but it has to do more with the genre. EDM, as I have also explained in her legacy is dominated entirely by DJs, vocalists barely get a mention. In general it is Ali's achievement as a vocalist that she is recognised by name in EDM because of the DJ-dominance and also the DJs listed are some of the most prominent ones in EDM. I have only listed the prominent ones to an EDM listener because they signify the "star power" she possesses within that genre to get such names to collaborate and remix her work. If it isn't appropriate I am happy to remove them. Hassan514 (talk) 19:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Keraunoscopia

• File:Nadia_Ali_2011.jpg Summary needs a completed {{Information}}.
  •  Done
• File:Nadia_Ali_Queen_of_Clubs.jpeg Reduce size for fair use (300 pixels wide) — this isn't exactly a rush, but if you take the article to GA, fair-use images will be scrutinized.
  •  Done
• Lead needs to be expanded. Familiarize yourself with WP:LEAD. Don't work on it first, work on it last. Once the rest of the article is in good shape, you can return to the lead and summarize the article's most important points.
• ""Rapture", which she wrote within 30 minutes" – I think "in 30 minutes" would be clearer?
  •  Done
• Watch your use of past and present tense. "Says" should be changed to "said", for example (I changed it). Keep an eye out for other examples.
• "after the Sony VAIO laptop Ali was working on" sounds like Ali was helping develop the laptop
  •  Done clarified it to the laptop she wrote her songs on
• "An album, Poetica ..." Expand this. An album? What kind of album? Their first?
  •  Done clarified it as their first studio album
• "continues" change to past tense.... again, fix tense throughout entire article. Should be consistent the entire way through
• "No.1" should be "No. 1"; add a space
  •  Done
• "the 2007 Album" lowercase "album"
  •  Done
• "Followed by "Something to Lose" in 2006, a duet with singer-songwriter Rosko, produced by John Creamer & Stephane K and released by Ultra Records, the track was licensed to Roger Sanchez's Release Yourself, Vol. 5, as well as Sharam Tayebi of Deep Dish for his Global Underground debut Dubai." long and confusing sentence
  •  Done 2 different sentences
• I still see examples of single quotation marks where there should be double quotation marks.
  •  Done Fixed all i could see
• "DJs and Producers" producers should not be capitalized in the middle of a sentence
  • I've changed that with producers but shouldn't DJ be capital since it is an abbreviation for disc jockey?
• "eastern mystique" I think Eastern is supposed to refer to cultural music here, and should be capitalized
  •  Done
• "the resulting work having been described as minimal trance,[48] "sad disco"[27] to "mainstream pop"." I would make this its own sentence, but I think the list of genres is awkward with the "to" in there.
  •  Done
• You need to explain what EDM means if you're going to use it in the article (and only in quotes; I would not use the initialism in the actual encyclopedic text you are writing). People not familiar with the term won't easily make the connection to the genre.
  •  Done I used it once in the quote in the 'legacy' section but clarified it there
• The Early years section is much better, much more interesting. I wouldn't mind it being expanded even further if possible, but this is dependent on what you come across in your research.
  • Yes, I'm looking for more things from her iiO career as well, I have found a couple of interviews from that time but there's nothing substantial in there to add, the questions are mostly on favourite places they have toured or how their songwriting happens.
• You asked about "her unique postion as a Pakistani woman in EDM (unless this wasn't essential?)" — I believe this to be absolutely essential. It's what makes her character so different and should be a reason her article is that much more interesting for readers. Any more info you can gather regarding this, I would try to fit into the article, without going overboard, of course.
  • Still looking for more information on that myself, from what I've seen in interviews she rarely talks about it unless it's in her musical influences. The one video interview with Voice of America was very very helpful here though
• You asked "What else do you suggest I need to add to make the article proper" — My only advice is to read every article you can about her that you find. Magazines, online, books, Google books, whatever. Read, read, read, and as you come across info, you'll start incorporating it into the article and you may or may not eventually feel the need to create new sections. Otherwise, take a look at other songwriter/EDM GA articles and see what they've done.
• "there's no links to her upcoming work besides that on Facebook" — This is problematic. Wikipedia, and especially music-related articles, require the information to be notable. If you can only find information on a primary source, and no one else is reporting it, then the information will have to be thrown out. This can be frustrating, but sometimes it helps you re-write sections and they come out better, even if you can't get every last drop of information into the article that you want. If it's not notable, it can't be in the article. GA reviews will find these bits of info for sure.
  • Happy to remove that then, my biggest concern is the post from her myspace blog. That was very useful in putting the timeline correct for when she joined Versace and then when she met Markus Moser. Otherwise, she simply refers to it as 17 when she worked at Versace and introduced by a colleague to Moser. Also, with the future release, the production company behind the shoot for the upcoming single's video posted their involvement. Is that a good source or ignore that as well?
• "photobucket link is actually a photograph of an interview in a magazine, which has been referenced" You cannot link to the JPG, that's a breach of copyright because the image is, itself, a copyright violation of the magazine. Don't worry, it's not a big deal, you won't lose the citation. Just gather all the information you can on the magazine: page numbers, title, issue, volume, etc etc. The magazine citation is still correct. Of course, it's your burden to make sure all the information about the magazine is correct.
  • I have emailed the guy who conducted the interview regarding more detail. He uploaded the image to his own website and hopefully he'll reply. He has also done another interview and I have asked him on details for that as well so I can cite it because he covered a lot of things with her such as why her label is called Smile in Bed and a couple of auditions she did for Broadway.
• "EDM, as I have also explained in her legacy is dominated entirely by DJs" and "If it isn't appropriate I am happy to remove them" — See, someone like me who isn't familiar with EDM will have trouble with this. Thank you for explaining. I felt there was a lot of names being dropped, but apparently it's a normal thing for the genre! So long as it's written with the least amount of name-clutter as possible. Try to expand sentences and make it as easy for us lay-people to understand what's going on : )
  • Do you think I should add this information earlier in the article instead of right at the end. I have clarified it at the end though that vocalists are often an supporting act in electronic music and hence her notability is important.

I think the article is improving some. I still think it can be expanded—just keep reading every interview and article you find. Read the article aloud and keep tweaking the prose. It's better, but it still needs to flow smoothly. Try to avoid repetitious words, constant changes in tense (you have something like three tenses going on at points: present, past, and present perfect, I think). – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 07:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help. It's definitely appreciated because there were many issues with the article which I didn't know and wasn't picking up anymore. I need to work on the language definitely, planning to print the article over the weekend since that helps me pick up a lot more grammatical errors! Thanks again! Hassan514 (talk) 12:33, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Continued
Since my citation #s could change with any edits, be sure to read them carefully. I'll list them first as my following suggestions could change the order of citations.

Citations

• I agree with CrowRSA, get rid of last.fm
  •  Done since there's no mention of them on allmusic just referenced liner notes
• Citation 6 has a link to Nadia's article, causing it to be bold. Remove
  •  Done
• I completely forgot to mention above, you said you had a citation that was found on "page 3" of a reference? I meant to tell you, you need a citation for each page. Sounds weird, I know, but there you go. So if you cite page 1 of a 5 page interview/article, but no other page, then still make sure you say "page 1" in the citation. Then if you cite page 4, you'll need a new citation for that. (This is for online sources only, of course.)
  •  Done
• In Citation 1 (interview), you have "01" as the date. Change to "1". If you do this out of habit, be sure to change other examples of the leading 0.
  •  Done
• Get rid of MySpace. Find relevant info elsewhere
  •  Done
• Citation 6: " Joy94.9" add a space. Is this a radio interview? Is there any way to find an online link to it, without being a copyvio (no unofficial YouTube)? Also, the date has a leading 0

• •  Done Yes, it's available as a podcast from iTunes

• Citation 8: "Billboard charts" I think should be changed to Billboard.com
  •  Done
• Citation 16: I didn't notice this until now, but for instance, this citation has two date formats: MM DD, YYYY and DD MM YYYY. As a major contributor to the article, you need to choose one format and make sure the entire article has the same format throughout, including references, infobox, article, file (image) descriptions, etc.
  •  Done
• Actually, I think all cases of Billboard charts should be changed to Billboard.com, because that's the publisher, not the title of the page or anything.
  •  Done
• Citation 23: About is About.com. All instances of this should be changed.
  •  Done
• Get rid of Facebook
  •  Done
• JPG link: even if the author took the image, unless it's his magazine and he owns the rights to it, the image link needs to be removed. People will assume good faith that you have cited the magazine properly, no need to prove it with a picture.
• Citation 37: Ministry of Sound is a blog and is most likely not reliable unless there is editorial oversight. Try to replace the source.
  •  Done, I just removed the licenscing information. I can't find anything else which validates Ministry of Sound as a distributor except links to websites selling their compilations and the single.
• Several citations: Beat my Day also looks like a blog. Try to replace the source.
  •  Done
• Citation 44: Adam Stewart's MTV article did not archive properly. Try re-archiving.
  • Doesn't seem to be working, tried it a few times. Removed the archive link
• Citation 47: SF 3D is a blog. Replace source
  •  Done
• Hipster Overkill also looks like a blog, but much more professional. Find out if it has editorial oversight (editors/staff working that reads the articles published) and see if the author is staff.
• I may have missed earlier examples of blogs in the citations. I would go through all of them and make sure they all meet WP:RS guidelines, otherwise be prepared to make some seriously convincing arguments for the GA reviews. Most of my "replace source" comments above need to be replaced for sure. But Hipster Overkill is a well-written article, so really work on either finding a replacement for it or finding out if it is reliable enough. Take it to Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard and ask if Hipster Overkill is reliable enough for GA.
  • I did use blogs to cite reference dates for the collaboration releases. This has more to do with the nature of electronic music and it's audience. The way music is spread is not through press releases but more through weekly DJ podcasts, their set lists from live performances. Armada music is the only label I have found having proper press releases. The coverage is rarely in mainstream music resources so the music is also spread through multiple blogs. That's the reason I used beat my day. Same with Hipster Overkill, muumuse or House that Dan Built, they're definitely not the most ideal sources for wikipedia but for electronic music websites like these are often the best source for a lot of information. I will post the links anyways at the page you suggested but should the article get good enough to be taken for a GA Review, I do think without these websites I not have enough left.
• Same thing with House that Dan Built. I see typos and missing information; not sure how professional that site is.

Article

• I also see at least two improper uses of the hyphen: "Ali's next project -", which needs to be a colon, and "not only a male but DJ-dominated genre - with vocalists", which should be a comma. Actually, that entire sentence could be slightly re-written for the sake of clarity. I understand it, but it's a bit awkward.
  •  Done
• In the 2010–present section, can you move the image down one paragraph (in the code)? I can't find the guideline at the moment (I'm looking for it), but I recall reading somewhere that images should not be immediately below a header. So just bump it down a bit, this way it's still next to its related paragraph.
  •  Done
• Now, related to the Queen of Clubs poster, there are a couple things. First, in the caption: "Album promo" doesn't tell me anything, though I think the image description says poster. Don't use the word "promo" since that's vague. Since the poster is a fair-use image, there needs to be an absolute reason for it being used. Read through WP:NFCI and WP:NFC#UUI and try to figure out what your intent with the fair-use poster is. Otherwise, I don't see a solid, valid reason for it to be there. As far as I can tell, its removal would not be detrimental to the reader's knowledge of the subject.
  • I do think the poster is essential, because it provides a visual fro the concept Ali is going for. Simply saying she chose the Queen of Clubs card at least to me doesn't feel helpful. This concept is also important particularly to her identity now as she is constantly referred to as the Queen of dance music especially after the release of the trilogy.
• One usage of single quotation marks remaining: 'unrivalled contributions to club culture'.
• The intro paragraph to the Solo career section has been bothering me. I think it needs to be incorporated into the Embers section. You essentially have two paragraphs that begin with "after leaving iiO" and it's a bit confusing. You don't need an intro paragraph there, and it looks like Embers began immediately... but within the four years' time, the touring happened.
• I'm wary about using the word "legacy" in a section header, unless the artist is so absolutely, globally notable and left some sort of mark on a planet-wide musical scene. Madonna would have a legacy, for example. But Nadia Ali? I know I never heard of her until recently. In addition, I don't see anything in the section written about a legacy. So I'll have to presume the word is a case of WP:PEACOCK and it should be removed at any rate.
  •  Done I was never comfortable using legacy for her because it is too soon in her career to even have a legacy. The hard part for me was to put her current place as one of the leading vocalists in dance music in the right spot. I have removed that section and placed it straight after the information on "Queen of Clubs" trilogy since that seems to be the most appropriate place to me.
• The musical style section needs to be greatly expanded. I don't think there's enough discussed on her style. Do you think you could add a relevant sound clip as well? I (as the average reader) don't know what Nadia's "musical style" sounds like. I don't even know what EDM sounds like. But you will be dealing with the same issue as the poster image: fair use rationale. You will need an absolute reason for using a song sample, and it needs critical commentary both in the text and in the caption of the sample. Pick the sample wisely and make sure it's relevant. Please read WP:SAMPLE as well. You can use Audacity (freeware) to convert the sound to .ogg and make sure to follow the 10% rule and ~64kbps sample rate. I'll be happy to convert the sound for you if you have trouble (or would rather not do it).
  • I don't think I am the best person to provide such a critical commentary. I know her work, yes and I'm a fan of the genre but my knowledge isn't enough to provide something which will warrant addition of a clip or a proper discussion on it. I know the style section is not enough at times but this is also because of my own limitations in understanding the EDM genre.
• Another incorrect hyphen use: "how she likes to be recognised - " Check out MOS:HYPHEN for proper uses. Information on the en dash is below, also. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 20:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help! Appreciated as always! Hassan514 (talk) 13:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure! In regards to the sound clip, I think it would be nice, but it's definitely not necessary. I sifted through the WikiProject Electronic Music GA articles and a good portion of the low-importance GAs didn't have any sound clips; but the mids began to, and the highs definitely had them. So it's really up to you. As for critical commentary, that phrase wasn't meant to be intimidating. Technically, I think you have enough critical commentary as it is to warrant a sound clip. In the Musical styles section, the word "Eastern" is mentioned a couple of times, and I think this would be the key element for a sound clip. If you can find a clip where her music is most Eastern sounding on Embers, that would complement the Musical style section nicely, I think. You don't need to really write anything more (though if, in your research, you find more information regarding the Eastern influences of her music, the more the merrier). The caption of the sound clip would merely serve to point out the Eastern influences mixed with the modern dance.

That makes it a lot more easier. I uploaded a portion of one of her songs. It combines all the three styles which were on Embers - acoustic, eastern and electronic so I thought it was more appropriate than picking one of her other works which was focussing on one or two only.

I also noticed one sentence: "She chose to release her singles and albums digitally citing the nature of the electronic music audience and the traditional method of distribution deals in the United States." This is vague. What's the nature of the EDM audience/traditional method of distribution? It doesn't say why she releases her music digitally. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 19:53, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Corrected that. I think I've done most of the corrections you suggested. I'm just waiting to get more details on the magazine citation now. I have emailed both the interviewer and the magazine asking me if they can provide details of the page numbers, issue no etc. Hassan514 (talk) 08:10, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Sound clip seems okay. According to Embers_(album)#Track_listing, "Crash and Burn" has a run time of 4:11, which means, if you look at the bottom of WP:SAMPLE, can only be 24 seconds long. Can you trim it a bit? Don't lose the Eastern stuff at the beginning, that was good. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 08:25, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Corrected that, also I have expanded the lead, could you please have a look at it? Still waiting to hear about the reliability of Hipster Overkill and the House Dan Built. Hassan514 (talk) 10:57, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Perfect! Okay, I snuck a peak at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Nadia_Ali_references and it looks like the House Dan Built is not a reliable source. Seeing that you've only referenced it twice, and both for "quote-ables" that could easily be replaced, I don't think losing this as a source would be detrimental to the article. The quotes you've pulled from Overkill are much more important, so cross your fingers on that one. The lead looks good and seems to summarize the article pretty succinctly.

One final thing: I noticed the phrase "volunteering to sing" is lifted directly from the Armada Music interview, and while technically this is a quote and should have quotation marks around it, it's actually either poor English or a poor translation. The phrase appears in the Early years section, as well as the lead. I would recommend changing it entirely. What does she mean "volunteering to sing"? I think she means she took the opportunity to sing wherever and whenever she could, but the word "volunteer" makes it sound like she was singing for soup kitchens or something. Rephrase it in the Early years section, and rephrase it again in the lead (the lead summarizes; it should not repeat info verbatim). Once that's done, if you feel your article is ready, then good luck with the GA review! Great job! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 21:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

(outdent)

You're right. I have corrected it to what you suggested. Working on this article I have realised how bad my writing skills have been since I left uni! I've removed it from the lead because the "Early Years" section doesn't precisely say what kind of events she performed at besides the christmas parties at Versace.

I have removed the links to House Dan Built and now that I re-read the material quoted from it, it probably is an exaggeration to call her a "saviour" of dance music. I do hope Overkill is considered suitable given the information from there is far more useful. Lola Richards isn't mentioned as staff anywhere but I have emailed them and hopefully they'll reply soonish on what her status is. I'll nominate the article soon for GA review, just waiting to get complete details for the Downtown Niche magazine reference. The interviewer said he'll get back to me soon with them and then I'll go through one final check. Thank you so much for such detailed feedback and pointing me in the right directions. Much appreciated! Hassan514 (talk) 08:20, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Quick question, does the caption for the "Queen of Clubs" image seem adequate now? Do you think it helps give relevance now? or still recommend removing the image? Hassan514 (talk) 08:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Nah, don't think your writing skills are bad! Think of it this way, as you take the article to higher levels, your writing can only improve. As more and more people take a look at these articles, the writing will change, and it's for all sorts of reasons. Every step is a draft. Your favorite novel most likely was not written in a single sitting—I guess it depends on the author though! That's what makes Wikipedia so incredible, the community behind each article. Almost every sentence can be better. Every idea can be said in a myriad ways, there's no right way. But there are ways that are better than others, and it's the community's job—it's your job—to find that way, and only because you want it to be better.

As for the Queen of Clubs poster, I'll be completely honest: I'm very skeptical about fair-use images used within articles. The critical commentary has to be practically divine for it to be there. But don't get rid of it right now. An idea may come to you, you may suddenly realize why that poster is so important to include. When you take the article to GAN, you'll probably be told to remove it, but why do it now? I think I only told you to get rid of stuff in this review because they absolutely had to go. Some stuff is arguably hazy (to a very lazy extent) until you reach certain levels of article classes. The image must make "a significant contribution to the user's understanding of the article, which could not practically be conveyed by words alone." So it's up to you! By the way, I left a note on the article talk page (but it was buried in my subsequent edits to the page): is Nadia Ali really within the scope of WikiProject Rave? I didn't get that impression when reading the article, but like I've said before, I'm not familiar with EDM, and maybe EDM is part of rave culture. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 08:57, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Great, that massaged my ego a bit haha! My reasoning was simply that the image helps give a visual with what she did with the "Queen of Clubs" theme, using that for herself in the context that she is Queen of (night)clubs, because of the predominance of her music in clubs. But yeah, let's see what happens once it reaches the GA review. Technically yes, Nadia Ali would be a part of the rave project. Not so much as her original work since it blends heaps of other styles but the remixes of her work. EDM is definitely the main kind of genre in rave culture but more specifically sub-genres like house and trance. The remixes of her work fall into either of the two categories and "Rapture" and a lot of tracks from "Queen of Clubs" definitely form a part of rave culture particularly with remixers like Paul van Dyk, Myon and Shane 54 or Armin van Buuren. Hassan514 (talk) 16:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)