Wikipedia:Peer review/Indigenous people of the Everglades region/archive1

Indigenous people of the Everglades region

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch peer review

A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for April 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
This article is the first of perhaps four or five satellite articles for the Everglades article that I'm revising. I intend to bring all of them, including Everglades to FA. Please let me know what I need to concentrate on. I appreciate your taking the time to read the article and comment on it. Thanks, Moni3 (talk) 22:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: Overall quite interesting and well-done article. I note that the semi-automated peer review finds no MOS problems, which is also a good sign. Here are my suggestion to hopefully improve the article - most will be fairly nit-picky:

Is the second "they" in They were more adapted to the environmental changes than their ancestors, and they created many tools with the resources they had. needed?
This sentence seems a bit odd to me - the first comma seems unnecessary and the use of "to present" seems less than clear - perhaps a different verb would be better: Approximately, 5,000 years ago, the climate shifted again to present the regular flooding from Lake Okeechobee that became the Everglades ecosystems.
I would give the year for The last mention of the Tequesta was their transport to Havana. see WP:PCR
Since the lead is supposed to summarize the whole article I would add some final mention of the six Seminole reservations in the Everglades today.
Were the glaciers in Florida? I did not think so, but As glacial ice retreated, winds slowed and vegetation became more prevalent and varied.[2] makes it sounds as if they were.
Climatology is the (modern) scientific study of the climate, so Climatology of Florida began to change, and the land became much wetter around 6,500 years ago. does not make sense. I think "The climate of Florida..." would make more sense.
Odd verb choice in The Paleo-Indians then molded into the Archaic peoples... - perhaps "became" or "changed into" instead of "molded into"?
Missing word? the climate became wetter again, and [by?] approximately 3000 BCE the rise of water tables Also make clearer here that this allowed the development of the Everglades?
How about due to the lack of artifact[s], and what has been found — primarily pottery — ~~has shown to be~~ [was] gritty and plain.[6]?
Although the table does this nicely, I think the text should make the timing of the Glades I, II and III cultures clearer. As written, it reads more as if they were separated by geography and not time
Perhaps split this sentence in two, with the first part where it is now, and the new second sentence (return to Spain) after the description of Pedro M d A finding and rescuing him. This would be more chronological and perhaps clearer.
References should be in order, i.e. [14][27], not [27][14]
Are there any modern takes on the human sacrifice stories of the Calusa and Tequestas? To what extent are thse reports seen as accurate or are they seen as stories to demonize the tribes?
The modern history seems a bit thin - if any area needs to be expanded, this is it.

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I think I changed all but the last two. There's not much on Tequesta or Calusa social customs. The information I added was from an article that described 5 entries by Fontaneda that were left out of the original manuscript presented to the king of Spain. It was my impression that Fontaneda did not seek to demonize the Calusa or Tequesta, and remembered them fondly, although that concept is vague and I don't know if I could quote an historian saying as much.

What part of the modern history seems thin (modern history to me is 1566 to present)? 20th century Seminole? I tried not to give the last 100 years undue weight when the majority of the article dealt with thousands of Florida inhabitants and thousands of years. I can add a bit more about the Seminoles in the Everglades if it's a sticking point, or if you think I might encounter the request at FAC.

I was just curious - sometimes reports of human sacrifice are later seen more as propaganda, but if this is all there is, no problem (and obviously they did not sacrifice Fontaneda). I would not add to the modern history unless someone requests it at FAC - I did think the Seminole history in the last 100 years seemed minimal, but had not thought of WEIGHT / RECENTISM. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:52, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cryptic C62 comments: I'm just going to make a list of awkward prose:

"Cushing unearthed over a thousand Calusa artifacts of tools made of bone and shell, pottery, human bones, masks, and animal carvings made of wood."
"In 1947, archaeologist John Goggin described the three periods after examining shell mounds on Matecumbe Key, Gordon Pass near modern-day Naples, and south of Lake Okeechobee near modern-day Belle Glade." I can't tell if the landmarks are used to describe one, two, or three different shell mound locations.
"...and is considered the least sophisticated due to the lack of artifacts, and what has been found — primarily pottery — is gritty and plain." Needs some better connective tissue between the two clauses.
"They were skilled travelers in canoes, where they hunted what Fontaneda described as whales, but where probably manatees, in the open ocean by lassoing them and driving a stake through the snout." Awkward comma break-up, inconsistent plurality (lassoing them vs. the snout)

--Cryptic C62 · Talk 13:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. It's odd: those passages bothered me too, but I decided not to listen to that voice in my head. Thanks for the review. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to improve the article. --Moni3 (talk) 13:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The Seminole Wars increased U.S. military presence in the Everglades that called for exploration and mapping of many regions that had not previously been recorded." Wait, what? Who's calling for exploration?
"They made their villages in hardwood hammocks — islands in the rivers — or pinelands, had diets of hominy and coontie roots, fish, turtles, venison, and small game. Villages were not large, due to the limited size of hammocks." Totally unclear. Are hardwood hammocks actual islands, or are they built out of hardwood? If the size of the hammocks was limited, why didn't they just build larger hammocks or more hammocks? Why is the list of food so totally disconnected from the rest of that sentence?
"They made a living by hunting and trading with white settlers, and adapted housing probably from the Calusa to build chickees." I don't think the idiom made a living really applies to this article. adapted housing probably from.. sounds like a machine translation.
"The word Seminole means runaway or broken off. Hence ... applicable to all the Indians in the Territory of Florida as all of them ran away ... from the Creek ... Nation." Three ellipses in one sentence make me think that the original quote said something entirely different, and other people will probably think the same way.

You're doing some really great work with this - and doing so in a remarkably short period of time. Keep it up! I've added a few links to this article in various Florida-related places. I'm going to try to make some coherent redirects to raise awareness. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 14:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I appreciate your spreading the word. Ok, I changed the first three points. The quote is verbatim, including all the ellipses. --Moni3 (talk) 14:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The landscape exhibited large dunes and sweeping winds that was a result of an arid region," ...?
"During the Late Archaic period, the climate became wetter again, and by approximately 3000 BCE the rise of water tables allowed an increase in population and cultural activity. Florida Indians developed into three distinct but similar cultures that were centered around bodies of water: Okeechobee, Caloosahatchie, and Glades." Cultural activity sounds like a pro-environment concert at the library, not the culturual diversification explained in the following sentence. Are Okeechobee, Caloosahatchie, and Glades bodies of water, or are they cultures? If they are bodies of water, they should be preceded by Lake/River/whatever.
"Spanish priests wrote of child sacrifices in order to mark the occasion of resuming a friendship with a neighboring tribe with whom they had been fighting." Who is fighting whom? Whose child is being sacrificed?
With whom did Menendez maintain a friendly relationship? The caption says Tequesta, but the text implies Calusa.
"The last reference to the Tequesta during their existence was written in 1743 by a Spanish priest, who described their ongoing assault under another tribe." This is somewhat oddly written, but of more concern is the name (or lack thereof) of the Spanish priest. Were his writings anonymous? Or was his name simply not mentioned in Tebeau's book?
The Ais and Jaega are mentioned throughout the article. Why don't they have their own section? Even a little hodgepodge section called "Other tribes" would suffice.

On another note, this is garbage:

"Jeaga" is spelled "Jaega" throughout the article
Map should be color-coded for each tribe
A key is better than slanted text
Base tone should be a neutral color, not red
Time period should be provided for each tribe, not for entire map
Landmarks should each have a point near the label
Charlotte Harbor and Mayaimi should be of a consistent size with the other landmark labels.

--Cryptic C62 · Talk 01:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have the name of the priest in a book at home, of course, so I need to change that when I get home tonight. Otherwise, I think I changed the problems in text. The map is hand-produced, so be nice. I'm exponentially better on paper than I am on computer. I'm working on changing it now. It's actually better than what I used as the source in my book. (Except for the misspelling of Jaega...) --Moni3 (talk) 13:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the article mention the Second and Third Seminole Wars, but not the First?
The article mentions the "last Seminole war." Does this refer to the third, or to a fourth that was not previously mentioned?
"However, the heat of the Everglades was influential in changing their style of dress. Seminoles continue to wear clothing of unique calico patchwork design made of cotton, or silk for more formal occasions." This section needs to be reworked. The first sentence implies that it was too hot to wear animal skins, while the word continue implies that nothing changed.
"The construction of the Tamiami Trail, beginning in 1928 and spanning from Tampa to Miami, bisected the Everglades and brought a steady stream of whites into their territory that altered their ways of life forever." When did the construction end? Was it the construction of the trail which did the bisecting, or was it the trail itself? The second clause sounds like emotional propaganda. I'd try to find a more neutral way of phrasing it.

--Cryptic C62 · Talk 13:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. Changes made, thank you. (I discovered that Jaega is spelled both ways.) --Moni3 (talk) 16:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ealdgyth (talk · contribs) You said you wanted to take this to FAC, so I looked at the sources. The only iffy one is the tourism one, and given what it's sourcing it could probably squeak by. Might try to find a better source, try the Department of Indian Affairs for the number of reservations? Otherwise the sources look great. 15:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]