Wikipedia:Peer review/Honan Chapel/archive1

Honan Chapel

A small church built in the Celtic-Romanesque style, borrowing from both the early Christian and Art Nouveau styles. User:Guliolopez wrote the early page, has tended since and can be taken as highly knowledgeable. Sincere thanks to EEng for a top to bottom copy edit. Ceoil (talk) 22:11, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

You're not going to get much from me. The article seems to me in first class shape as it is.

• A few AmE spellings caught my eye, but perhaps they're OK in Irish English: center (twice), favors, watercolor.
• If I'd written this article I'd be a bit miffed at the "by whom" tag in the Background and construction section. It seems to me abundantly clear by whom – the citation is at the end of the sentence.
• On the other hand, I suppose the "further explanation needed" tag about the danger to the windows from the Easter Rising is reasonable. Something to the effect of "when the XXX were firing nearby at the YYY", perhaps. All the same, I don't think the sentence is all that bereft without such an addition.

• see from Guliolopez Ceoil (talk) 18:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• In the Altar section, second para, I think you want "impractical" (i.e. a pain) rather than "impracticable" (i.e. impossible)
• unmistakably Irish features – now there I think I might add a "says who" tag. I don't dispute the statement but it could do with a citation.
• In the St. Brendan section the second para begins "It starts". Better to spell out what "it" is, perhaps, as this is a new para.
• The nearby Crawford Art Gallery, Cork – as it is nearby I doubt if we need the "Cork"

I think this is a terrific article and I enjoyed it immensely. It deserves scrutiny from someone with a better eye for the visual arts than mine. Have you knocked on KJP1's door? – Tim riley talk 18:31, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Tim as always. Very helpful, and rolling up the sleeves now to address. Re KJP1, yes we are in contact and he has even gone so far to scan pages from a rare, expensive source. Ceoil (talk) 18:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Update, EE, Liz and myself have most of these sorted. Ceoil (talk) 07:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Gerda

Thank you for the wonderful pictured invitation, - and sorry it took so long. Will comment while reading, and touch the lead only briefly, because usually I understand that better after reading the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• I first look at the infobox, find names and pic great, but then stumble over UCC. Do readers around the world have to know UCC? Yes, there's a link ... - seems so similar to "vespers" ;) - I suggest you either write the full name, or UCC + town.

  Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• I'm no friend of "Roman Catholic" once our article was moved to simply Catholic Church, but if you prefer Roman, I won't mind.

  Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Teh style, sigh. - The first link goes to Celtic, the second to Romanesque, but nothing prepared me - the first time reading - for this being a Romanesque revival style. I thought for a while that it was really Romanesque. Any chance to clarify from the start that there's a lot of evoking older traditions in First World War surroundings? The completely different link in the infobox didn't help me much because Arts and Crafts movement was a term I had to look up. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:57, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

  Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• We shouldn't link current countries and capitals, - is Dublin an exception?

  Certainly not. Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• I believe for this project alone, John O'Connell (solicitor) deserved an article.

  Yes, has been on radar for a year. Will have a go overweekend. Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• What does "liturgical collection" mean?

  Very little. I meant various nice objects to look at. Am half-ways though a restruct based on this feedback. Ceoil (talk) 21:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• "Christ", - no link? ... and why not Jesus, when Mary and John go by given names?

  Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• I miss something like a closing sentence, not ending with the year of founding of a studio (which may ot even be lead material).
• We have so much space bext to the TOC, - any chance to get major designers' names to the infobox? ... and the Irish name?

  Will be expanding, using Wells Cathedral as a guide. Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

TOC

• How about Toc limit 3, to not have the individual windows take so much room?

  Agree, and have started a reorg, but its taking a fair bit of thought and work. Ceoil (talk) 18:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Aren't altar and windows also artwork?

  Indeed...see re TOC

• Do we need the See also with just one entry at all?

  Done :( Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Background

• Why "Cork city", instead of simply "Cork"? In German, that wouldn't even qualify for city = large town.

  Oi! But done nonethelessCeoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• I wonder to which extent we need to know the special scientific abilities of Windle.
• "the Eye, Ear & Throat Hospital on Western Road" - how does "Western Road" help me? Also please try to decide Road or road or Rd. consistently.
• First drawn, then completion costs, then cornerstone, then dedication? - sort chronologically?

Architecture

• I'd swap the images, first having the general impression, and the saint later in context (or perhaps not at all).

  Done Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Any link to "the mythological River of Life"? ... or no "the" which suggest to me that is something specific?

  not finding anything, hang on.... Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• I'll put Psalm 148 on my to-do list. Note to self only.
• Explain that the quote "... the depths" comes from Psalm 148? (Wikisource for that?) ... possibly other motifs as well? ... "et omnia, quae moventur in aquis" (all that moves in waters) comes from the Benedicite.

Altar

• "The chapel has had two altars", - sounds like there were two at the same time. Move "replaced" to the following para, where the explanation comes?
• "enacted in 1987"? - closing statement was in 1966, no?
• "the priest facing away from the congregation" - never heard "face away", - probably just me.
• "and being movable, allowed clergy and attendants to be closer", closer than what? attendants - congregation?

  Done: Ceoil (talk) 00:52, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• What is "this" in the sentence about the centre of the chancel?

Tabernacle

• Holy Spirit comes late and without link, while dove was mentioned before.

Need a break. Generally: please sort refs by number. Great visiting this place! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Windows

• I had forgotten (although mentioned in the lead) that it was Clarke vs. several from the studio. Perhaps first that, then the individual artist's names?
• Should the collector's overall reception come here, before we readers seee them?

That's it. A pleasure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Lots of excellent stuff here, a big help, thank you kindly! Ceoil (talk) 17:44, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Placeholder

Sorry, Ceoil - work's a bit hairy at present, but I shall get to this soon. KJP1 (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• possible use re. “Listing” - [1]
• Mosaics - [2]

Oh, nice, thanks. If its ok with you, can you hold off a possible review for a day or so...Gerda suggested some structural (pun) changes to the article that I agree with but am still grappling through; the ref order and stuff likely to change a lot again. Best. Ceoil (talk) 08:08, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

No problem - I'll give it another read through. Let me know when you're done, and I'll come back. It's very nice, and beautifully illustrated. KJP1 (talk) 08:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Sound. Ceoil (talk) 09:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)