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Wikipedia:Peer review/George Herriman/archive1

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George Herriman edit

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I intend to take it to FAC. It has passed its GA review and has been through a copyedit at the WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. Ideally, I'd like to see this article pass in time for it to hit the main page for 28 October 1913, which is the 100th anniversary of the debut Herriman's signature comic strip, Krazy Kat.

Thanks, Curly Turkey (gobble) 02:38, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
  • I would move the sentence about his birth to the top of the section, and "His birth certificate lists Herriman as "colored".[2]" could be moved above where his ethnicity is discussed
  • Or, I would briefly discuss his parents' background, then his birth, ethnicity, etc
  • There are some small mistakes, such as no period after "hoping his chances would be better there"
  • The "Style" section is a bit too short. Isn't there more to say?
    • I'd love to add more, but I haven't come accross much written in reliable sources (only blogs) about his style (or, rather, the sources all say the same, brief things—it was loose and scratchy). Having said that, his style didn't change drastically over the years, and unless I come across something brilliant someone has written about it, I think what's there pretty much sums it up. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "List of comic strips" could be moved to the bottom.
  • That the cat is androgynous is not mentioned in the prose as far as I see. Make sure you don't introduce new items in the lead.
    • It's in 2nd para New York again, and Krazy Kat (1910–1922)' – "The gender of "Kat" was unclear from the start. Herriman experimented with a decision about the character's gender, but it remained ambiguous and he would refer to "Kat" as "he" or "she" as he saw fit." Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:50, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure the pictures are also public domain outside the US
    • Are you talking about File:1937 1107 kkat brick 500.jpg? The uploader claims to have checked it out with the Library of Congress, and the copyright wasn't renewed. My understanding is that in most other non-US countries, copyright only lasts 70 years for works created for a corporation—the image is from 1937, which should put it in the clear. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:11, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see why the notes should not be migrated into the text.
    • Some of them were, but I found they interrupted the flow, and the information in them wasn't crucial. I didn't want to remove them, so I put them into footnotes. Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

--Tomcat (7) 11:50, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Somehow I missed that Tomcat7 had posted feedback here—I thought I kept a pretty close eye on my watchlist! I'm sorry about that. I'll get on htese right away. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very interesting article, glad to see this up for review. I'll make some copyedits as I go through, feel free to object to any of them. A few initial comments:
  • I'd suggest moving the third sentence to the end of the paragraph.
  • Also, the last sentence of the lead seems a bit trivial for the lead section.
  • For "Early career in New York (1900–1904)" I think the MOS suggests "1900–04" for the abbreviation.
    • Ugh...If someone were to change this, I woudln't revert it, but I can't bring myself to do it... Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm wondering why the Baron Bean image is down in the List of comic strips section.
    • I thought it would be nice to illustrate the section, and I thought the strip fit nicely—it wasn't a Krazy Kat strip, but mixed in a Krazy motif. Originaly someone had a Krazy Kat Sunday of to the side, which looks nice on wide screens, but doesn't work on portable screens. I thought it was too much to have something that size open the section, so I chose a daily strip. It's not something I'll fight to keep. Curly Turkey (gobble) 22:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Again, not a big deal, just my point of view. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:45, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the "New York again, and Krazy Kat (1910–1922)" the pictures feel a bit jumbled, in my opinion.
  • "Herriman's father, George Herriman, Jr., was 30 at the time, and his mother, Clara Morel Herriman, was 25.[2]" I'm not sure what "at the time" refers to, or why we're getting their ages for it.
  • "Herriman's father, George Herriman, Jr., was 30 at the time, and his mother, Clara Morel Herriman, was 25.[2] When he was ten" Who is "he" in the second sentence?
    • Done. It looks like this got garble when some sentences got moved around. The ages are their ages when Herriman was born (none of my sources give their birth years), and "he" is Herriman. Curly Turkey (gobble) 22:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When he was 20, Herriman sneaked aboard a freight train bound for New York City, hoping his chances would be better there." His chances for what?
  • "He often used sequential images in his cartoons, which was akin to the emerging comic strip medium." I'd suggest "He often used sequential images in his cartoons, a style which was akin to the emerging comic strip medium."
    • Reworded to "He often used sequential images in his cartoons, as in the emerging comic strip medium." I can't commit to calling it a "style"—several theorists call it a fundamental aspect of the comics medium. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Between June 15 and October 26, 1901, eleven of his cartoons appeared in that magazine's pages" I think "11" might be preferred here, but I'd have to check the MOS to be sure.
    • According to WP:NUMERAL, it's in that grey zone where either numerals or words are acceptable. To me, such a small number looks odd in numerals... Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In June, Herriman was employed by the New York World, where he provided illustrations to Roy McCardell's commentaries on local events, beginning June 28 and running to the year's end." What does "beginning June 28 and running to the year's end" refer to, his employment or McCardell's commentaries?
    • Reworded to "In June, Herriman was employed by the New York World. There, he illustrated Roy McCardell's commentaries on local events, beginning June 28 and running to the year's end." "year's end" refers to McCardell's commentaries. Curly Turkey (gobble) 22:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Arsten (talk) 18:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sorry for the delay, but I should have more comment soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest you incorporate more information about KK's contemporary reception into the "Personal history" narrative.
  • You might be able to incorporate some details from the end of the "Personal life" section, as well.
  • I think you might be able to fit more details about analysis of his work in. i.e. To what extent did his art anticipate postmodernism?
    • I'd like to know, but I don't recall any of my sources taking that angle. I'll have to hunt around. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • What would you say was the zenith of Herriman's popularity? Could that be reflected in the text better?
    • My understanding is that it was in the teens and early twenties. I'll see if I can find a source to confirm it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • You mention in a couple places he was a fan of Fisher and Chaplin, can you add any more detail about how they (or others) influenced his work?
  • "Hearst had given Herriman a lifetime contract with his company King Features Syndicate, which gave Herriman the security to live anywhere he wanted." You might want to spell out why Hearst gave him the contract. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't know the answers to these off the top of my head, and it'll probably take me a bit of time to track down sources, assuming there are any. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've found some interesting stuff, but it'll take me a while to digest and assimilate it, and massage it into the text. Please be patient. (I have to say, this is one of the things I enjoy most about Wikipedia—finding out how much more there is to learn about a subject I'd thought I'd already known a whole lot about). Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:17, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The strip was not particularly inspired" You should probably attribute this. Perhaps, "Critics do not regard the strip as particularly inspired"?
  • "His artwork began to appear on nearly every page, resulting in greatly increased sales." Just checking, but his cartoons increased sales of the Examiner?
  • "Inspired by the success of Bud Fisher's daily strip A. Mutt in late 1907" What happened in late 1907, the inspiration or the strip's success?
  • "Herriman drew with what cartoonist Edward Sorel called a "liberated, spontaneous-looking style ... a cartoon counterpart of expressionism"." You should probably put an inline citation after this quote.
  • "Cartoonist Edward Sorel wrote that Krazy Kat's lack of popularity later in its run was largely due to Hearst's editorial policies." So although Hearst was a big fan of the strip, his actions hindered its popularity? That's pretty interesting, you might want to note this more explicitly.
  • There are some short sentences in the first para of "California again, later career and death (1922–1944)", might want to lengthen them some.
  • "He said that he dreamed of being reborn a Navajo." Who is the first "He" in this sentence?
  • I made a bunch of copyedits, might want to double-check that I didn't introduce any errors. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:06, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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