Wikipedia:Peer review/Fridtjof Nansen/archive1

Fridtjof Nansen

This peer review discussion has been closed.

Nansen was one of the most significant European figures of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. An innovative scientist in several disciplines, he first won international renown as a pioneer of modern Arctic exploration, though these exploits were perhaps transcended by his work for refugees in the 1920s, on behalf of the League of Nations. I have been expanding this article for some time, and have had useful help from a couple of Norwegian editors. The article now needs a full review; any suggestions as to how it might be further improved will be gratefully received. I hope that in due course this will become a featured article, and that eventually it may be TFA on an appropriate date. Thank you. Brianboulton (talk) 00:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: I'm happy to say that after a close reading, I could find little to grumble about. This is a fascinating account, beautifully written, exceptionally well-illustrated, and excellent in every way. (Side note: I was pleased to see Ealdgyth's photo of Fram as well as Ruhrfisch's marvelous maps.) I will be glad to support when this goes to FAC. Here is a paltry list of quibbles:

Ancestry

• On my computer screen, the 19th Christiana image displaces the "Early life" subhead. Would the image be better on the right?

  I've moved the image up in the section. I don't want to swithch it to the right, because that would spoil my zig-zag (yes, I ought to get out more). The image is there mainly for decoration, but I'd like to keep it if I can. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Student and adventurer

• "His samples also demonstrated that the Gulf Stream flows beneath a colder layer of upper water." - "Upper water" sounds a bit odd. Maybe "an upper layer of colder water"?

  I agree my version was inelegant. The source refers to a cold layer of "surface water", so I've amended to that. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• "the museum's Director who had turned it from a backwater collection" - Lower-case "director"?

  Yes, I will deal with this and some other similar instanes of unnecessary capitalisation. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• "Nansen did not return to the university." - Would it be useful to explain in this paragraph in what sense he did not return since the paper described in the last sentence of the paragraph mentions his doctorate? The curatorship apparently counted as part of his formal degree work at the university, but the paragraph does not say this explicitly. That he completed his doctorate at the University of Christiana becomes clear later, in the "Planning" section, but maybe something in this paragraph would be useful too.

  This is a bit tricky. Bergen Museum is entirely separate from the University of Christiania; Nansen ceased fromal study at the university when he went to Bergen. Instead, he studied informally with Hansen and Daniellsen at Bergen, not on the basis of a set curriculum. There's no evidence that he took a bachelor's degree. Nevertheless, in the scholarly community the standing of figures such as Hansen and Danillssen was such that the university was prepared to accept Nansen's doctoral thesis. Whether such an arrangement would be accepted now I don't know - particularly in an English university where procedures are rather inflexible. I will add a liile more explanatory text. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Planning

• "Both had set out from Disko Bay on the western coast, and had travelled about 160 kilometres (100 mi) eastward before turning back." - I couldn't help but wonder here how far it was from Disko Bay to their intended turn-around point on the east coast.

  Neither was attempting a west-east crossing, they were merely investigating the interior. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• "and instead planned his expedition on the basis of small party of six." - Substitute "a" for "small"?

  The "a" has to go in, but I'd prefer to keep the sma;; " a small party of six". Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• "had penetrated 100 miles into the Greenland icecap" - Metric conversion in the caption?

  Done Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Expedition

• "believed would offer a route up on to the icecap" - Should "onto" be one word, or is this a BE, AE difference? If proper BE, never mind.

  "onto" is sometimes used in BE, but purists (i.e. pedants) like me who had classical educations tend to avoid it. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Interlude and marriage

• "Nansen accepted the position of Curator of the University of Christiania's zoology collection" - Lower-case "curator"?

  Yes.

• "the University was satisfied by the association" - Lower-case "university"?

  Yes

Oceanographer and traveller

• "Biographer Roland Huntford had asserted that Nansen and Kathleen Scott enjoyed a brief love affair." - Should that be "has asserted"?

  Yes

That's all I could find. I hope these suggestions prove helpful. Finetooth (talk) 21:40, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your swift, helpful and encouraging response to my review request. Brianboulton (talk) 15:35, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: This looks very good to me. As requested, here are some very nitpicky suggestions for improvement.

• The German Wikipedia does not allow fair use images, so all its images should be free. There are some in the German article on Nansen not used here - not sure if they would be useful or not, but thought I would make you aware of them.

  I had looked here - the "Nansen in old age" images comes from the German article. Others are used in the main Fram expdition article. I don't particularly see a need for others, but I'm always open to suggestions. Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

  I had not bothered to read the captions and saw the picture of him on skis in front of Jackson's cabin. Not realizing it was from the Fram expedition, I thought it could be used in the section where his youthful prowess on skis was described, but do not think it would work there. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• I would give the years of the Fram expedition in the lead - most of the other major events in his life in the lead have years.

  Done

• Since he earned his doctorate, I would mention that in the lead (not just studied at university)

  See my response to Finetooth, above. Nansen's relationship to the University of Christiania was unorthodox; he began his studies there, but his main place of study was the Bergen Museum. The Univ. of Christiania accepted his doctoral thesis although he had not prepared it under the university's aegis. I have slightly altered the wording, to try and make this point clearer. Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

  It is your call, but I think most articles about people who earned a doctorate mention that fact (the doctorate). I realize it is difficult to summarize easily in the lead though. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• Would it be better to say whatever the university name was when Nansen attended it? He began his studies at the university in Christiania early in 1881.[10] Since University of Christiana is used later (in the Greenland Crossing section), I think it would be clearer here (could add the current name after)

  This has been done. Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• Link seal hunting in Before sealing started, Nansen concentrated on his scientific work.[12]?

  As "sealer" has been linked (to seal hunting) in the previous sentence, is a second link on "sealing" really necessary? Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

  No, sorry I missed that. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• 100 miles in the caption needs km too Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld, whose 1883 expedition had penetrated 100 miles into the Greenland icecap Actually kilometres should be first to be consistent with the rest of the article.

  Done

• Northernmost known extremity? On 31 May, by Nansen's calculations, they were only 50 nautical miles (93 km; 58 mi) from Cape Fligely, the northern known extremity of Franz Josef Land.[71]

  Altered per your suggestion. Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the review so far. I'll look forward to the rest. Brianboulton (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

continued

• Add a comma? bruzzi had consulted him, as had the Belgian Adrien de Gerlache[,] each of whom took expeditions to the Antarctic.[96]
• Should son or daughter be added for Irmelin (assume a daughter) and Odd (though he is linked) The other three children are identified as son or daughter
• I think it might help to indicate that King Oscar remained king of Sweden This was held on 13 August 1905 and resulted in an overwhelming vote for separation, at which point King Oscar relinquished the crown of Norway.
• Is anything known of the cause of his wife Eva's death?
• It really looks good to me - I did not find anything else to correct. Please let me know when this is at FAC.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

One more Although there is a dab note and link at top, the article does not mention the Fridtjof Nansen class frigate or the ship named for him in Legacy. Seems like it should. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:28, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added a line to the Legacy section. Brianboulton (talk) 19:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I have also dealt with the last few points, above. Brianboulton (talk) 23:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Wehwalt comments Here are a few comments. I did not find much, for such a long article.

• Lede

Second sentence. Just a bit too long I think, nice to split it.

• It doesn't split readily, but I've shortened it

Is it worth a few words to mention the office also won the Nobel Peace Prize in lede?

• OK, done

• Ancestry

"burgomeister" Surely since he's Danish it should be "borgmester" as a pipe?

• Good point. The sources use the anglicized "burgomaster", but your suggestion is elegant, and I've adopted it. If anyone at FAC objects I will refer them to you.

"Supreme Court of Norway" wl

• Done

Is it possible that "reporter" is short for "reporter of decisions"?

• I'd say almost certainly yes, though the sources I have don't explain the role in this way. However, I have tweaked the footnote to work in your link.

• Early life

"Meantime he had started school," I guess it is conventional to start the paragraph by naming who you are talking about. It is also a bit odd to start a paragraph with "meantime" which refers to something else by definition, which in this case is in the prior paragraph ...

• Reworded (simplified)

• Student and adventurer. I really don't have anything. You are certainly writing dramatically! Wonder if it will be commented on at FAC.

• Doesn't seem to be particularly dramatic, but I made a slight tweak to avoid "rooted in his mind".

• Crossing of Greenland

"on the basis of a small party of six". Perhaps shorten to "for a small party of six".

"plenty of" You are writing in a slightly more informal way than usual, but this raised my eyebrows a bit.

" Telemark, but his approaches were rebuffed." This feels a bit odd. Telemark is a region. It is rather like saying "attempted to recruit from Cornwall, but his approaches were rebuffed." Do regions such as Telemark rebuff?

• Done all the above.

• Interlude

"the Prince of Wales and future King Edward VII" Gee, I know he was a big guy, but surely there weren't two of him! Suggest rephrase.

" The couple had met at the skiing resort of Frognerseteren, some years previously, " Perhaps "The couple had met some years previously at the ..."

• Given that Nansen first saw his bride topsy turvy in the snow, you might wan to say something like "Despite the circumstances of their meeting, Eva was an accomplished skier ..."
• All the above done

• Fram

" begun to form in Nansen's mind" This is the third time we have been informed of what is going on in Nansen's mind. You might want to mix things up a bit.

• Agreed. I have reworded appropriately.

"In the approximate location of Jeannette's sinking the ship would enter the ice, and then drift with the current ..." This sentence needs work.

• Reworded

" Using some of the hardest ..." This sentence is working too hard. I'd divide it.

"Hjalmar Johansen, the party's dog-driving expert," We have very recently met Johansen and his canine expertise. Suggest no need to reintroduce him in such detail.

• Above items fixed

"they had been killing the weakest regularly since 24 April, to feed the others." Dare I ask who ate the last dog?

• No idea. Probably had half each.

• National figure

There seems to be some discrepancy about Nansen going to talk with Prince Charles of Denmark Body: "ichelsen sent Nansen to Copenhagen on a secret mission to persuade Charles to accept the Norwegian throne.[107] Nansen was successful" Lede: " and was largely responsible for persuading Prince Charles of Denmark to accept the throne of the newly-independent Norway." It seems to me that the lede gives Nansen a greater role than the body.

• Altered lead wording to "was instrumental in"

"diplomatic duties hard to bear." You might want to say why. I can guess but ...

• He found them frivolous and boring. I've added that.

"This reflected the general character" What is "This"? You are discussing two different things in the previous sentence.

"thence by the Trans-Siberian Railway" Perhaps "then traveled by the ..."

• Dealt with all the above, will tackle the last few points later. Brianboulton (talk) 13:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

" a League of Nations, able to resolve disputes between nations by peaceful means" Might want to rephrase this, as the problem with the L of N is that they were not able to resolve such disputes! i know you are not addressing that point, but the informed reader will likely think that.

"Despite his pleas, Russia's revolutionary government was feared and distrusted internationally," This makes it sound like Nansen was trying to make Russia's government not be feared and distrusted internationally.

• These two points addressed

"Among the more distinguished holders of Nansen passports were the artist Marc Chagall, the composer Igor Stravinsky, and the dancer Anna Pavlova." Was this before they became distinguished? If so, I'd throw a mention that it was prior to their fame.

• No, they were all long-established figures of international repute by the 1920s.

" Despite this failure his name remains revered among the Armenian people." Hyperbole?

• It's what the source says, but I've moderated it a little.

• Death and legacy

"Nansen's daughter recorded ..." He had two, didn't he?

• Well spotted, amended.

That's all I have. Well written as always, though once or twice, as I indicated, the tone seemed a little odd. Looking forward to seeing it at FAC.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:22, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this review. As you see. I have adopted pretty well all your suggestions and the article is the better for it. It will lie here for another week, because after Friday I'm away for the following six days & would be unable to defend the article at FAC. Perhaps further helpful comments will transpire. Brianboulton (talk) 16:23, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Message: I am away from Wikipedia until 26 or 27 August. I am leaving this review open and will deal with any additional comments on my return. Many thanks again to all who have contributed. Brianboulton (talk) 00:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)