Wikipedia:Peer review/Chase Young/archive1

Chase Young

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to nominate it as a featured article soon but would like it to be as prepared as possible before doing so. Since the NFL offseason is here, Young's article should be stable until the 2021 season begins in September, barring anything unforeseen. I personally feel like the article is very close to being a FA, but another pair of eyes would certainly only improve it further. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:07, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Drive-by comments

• The lede needs to be expanded. A second paragraph, and maybe a third is needed
• Check for jargon (sacks). Wikilinking is a minimum, but explaining is often better
• altnernate Young and he a bit more?
• Add alts to images for accessibility
• I believe the tables both need captions per MOS:ACCESS. FemkeMilene (talk) 19:41, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

• Not sure what else can be added to the lead that wouldn't just be added to fluff it up. Other notable NFL players can easily do that since their career lasted a decade while his has just gotten started. Any advice?
• In terms of explaining football terms in prose? I don't think explaining what quarterback sacks are in such a manner is an improvement over just linking to their respective articles.
• Is there any official MOS/styleguide to how to improve this? Usually I'd leave "Young" for the opening sentence in a paragraph and try to alternate from there.
• Will do.
• Will do. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:27, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

• @Femkemilene: Outside of the lead concerns, (I don't think we need to add things just to make it look more important; it previously summarized 95% of the article in a single paragraph), what else could you suggest? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:50, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

  I have no idea about this topic, but you could work on citation formatting. Do you want to link every instance of a newspapers, or only the first? Do so consistently. I think having urls in the citation is discouraged (not sure), simply use the name of the newspaper or organisation. FN28 redirects me to bing. Is there a more stable link? FemkeMilene (talk) 11:27, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

• @Femkemilene: The problem with linking at first mention is you'd have to constantly check to see if it stays that way after expanding the article. Thus it would be less work to either link all mentions of them for maintenance reasons. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:50, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

  Consistency is key, so linking them all is fine. FemkeMilene (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, will do. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Comments by Z1720

Hi Dissident93 thanks for waiting patiently for a larger amount of comments to this article. I do not know much about football, so consider this a non-expert review. Here are some thoughts:

• "a rare honor for a defensive player." I would change to "a rare accomplishment" for NPOV reasons.
  • Agreed.
• The lede's second paragraph needs to be expanded
  • Again, expanding it seems forced in my opinion due to the fact he's only played a single season as a pro. It will grow over time but I'm not sure what information can go here that wouldn't be at least a tiny bit forced just to make the paragraph look larger.
• "he was recognized as one of the best high school football players in the nation" Who recognized him? Is this statement supported by a source?
  • He was included on the USA Today All-USA team (basically an All-American team for HS football players). But we can simply remove the "recognized as one of the best high school football players in the nation" if that's an issue.
    • I would include in the prose that USA Today recognised him for this. Z1720 (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
      • Well it's in the same sentence already. I guess I could merge all of his HS invitational teams in a single sentence? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
• "lining up alongside Nick Bosa" lining up sounds like football jargon. Change?
  • That may be a bit forced just to fit Bosa in there, I agree. He also played alongside several other current (and future) NFL players on that OSU defense.
    • I'm OK with leaving Bosa in there, but I don't like "lining up". "Played alongside" might work better. Z1720 (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
      • I understand, but having Bosa in there seemed a bit forced to me when he played alongside several other (current) NFL players on that defense. If another reviewer doesn't mind Bosa only being mentioned then I can re-add that with new wording. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
• "achieve such an honor and" change to "receive this distinction" for NPOV reasons
  • Agreed.
• All refs need the date when the source was first posted/printed. (the brackets after the author's name)
  • This was something I was going to get around to doing but forgot. Is there a bot or another automated way that could assist with this some? If not I'll manually get through them.
    • I don't know of a bot, but I have only been editing Wikipedia for a few months. Maybe check WT:FAC?
• I don't recognize some of the websites used as sources. Please read User:Ealdgyth/FAC, Sources, and You and review the sources to ensure every news outlet is a high-quality source. Reviewers will ask "Why is this a high-quality source?" and the nominator is expected to have a response to that question.
  • Which sources don't you recognize? There may be a few of them that might not been clearly seen as reliable, but those can easily be replaced with ones that are.
    • I'm not a sports person, so some of the sources might be unfamiliar because I'm not in that world. I didn't conduct a full source review, but Ealdgyth's page is a great resource on how to answer the "why is this a high-quality source?" question that is often asked at FACs. Z1720 (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
      • I'm prepared to answer that for any citation or replace them if I can't. I don't see any ones that clearly need to be replaced, though I obviously lack another's perspective on it. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

I will note that this article is short: This won't disqualify the article from achieving FA status but it will make it harder. Try looking for more sources at WP:LIBRARY, Google News, and databases in your library system. Local newspapers where Young played is a great place to look. One section you can consider adding ot the article is "Play style": this section would describe how Young plays football, his strengths, and his weaknesses. I hope this helps. Z1720 (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• It may technically be short but I just see that as mostly free of cruft that the majority of other athlete articles seem to include (like game-by-game stat updates in prose). Remember that his career has just begun and is not fair to compare to a 13 year veteran or something. FA's should simply grade the quality of what exists now or what could be added, which I don't think is much more. As for a playstyle section, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. I've only really seen them on articles where a player's playstyle is actually notable enough for a casual reader to be interested, which is almost always going to be an quarterback. Young's would simply read the same as any other top-tier NFL pass rusher (or maybe just athlete in general), which would be his speed, power, and instincts. You say that you do not know much about football, but would something like that really interest you and thus possibly other readers with a similar lack of knowledge about the sport? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:42, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
  • The sport that I know best is hockey, and some of those articles include a "Play style" section which I find informative. I agree that game-by-game stats shouldn't be in articles, but shorter articles like this might struggle with the "comprehensive" part of WP:WIAFA. If other editors express concerns about its lack of comprehensiveness, a play style section might help resolve those concerns. It's something to consider, and perhaps a FA mentor might give better insight on what, if anything, is missing from this article. Z1720 (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
    • I understand what you mean, but this article is about as comprehensive as it can get for a 23 year old professional athlete who just started his NFL career. Playstyle sections are almost never included in NFL articles, and if they are they are usually reserved for quarterbacks since they have the most varying styles of play. Young isn't really unique with his style when compared to other defensive ends, just among the best at it. Something like this can be brought up in a sentence or two; it doesn't really require an entire section (at least for now). ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 04:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Dissident93, it has been a month since the last comment; usually, PRs that have been open for a month without further comments are closed. Are you still interested in keeping this open? Z1720 (talk) 20:27, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm fine with that. It's unlikely to get any more new editors to chime in and I feel like I've addressed the majority of points raised (save for linking the websites in the cite template, which I'll get around to soon). ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:34, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

When you are ready, please close this PR by following the instructions at WP:PRG. Z1720 (talk) 22:49, 18 June 2021 (UTC)