Wikipedia:Peer review/Boogiepop series/archive1

Boogiepop series

I have changed the face of this article recently, but am unsure of where it is at. My first target is to get it to WP:GA quality, then aim for WP:FA if possible. I have used the auto-Peer Review script, and tried to use that as best I can, but am sure it could do with a human eye. My main concern is content: I have a nasty habit of assuming knowledge, so there may be vital content missing. Also, before anyone suggests it, I have been looking for printed references, but everything I have read has been completely useless; it also seems unlikely I will manage to lay my hands anything else. Thanks! Elric of Grans 23:54, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, Andy _t 23:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• This article seems to be very well constructed - I myself have not read any of the novels or manga, or seen the anime, but I still found it very informative and comprehensive, not to mention interesting; and without going into too much detail in the overview. The references are also quite well done. I would say that this article is GA at the very least, or will be after a few minor changes, though it would probably have to be a bit more in-depth (as in adding whatever is relevant and documented that applies to the entire series) before being nominated for FA. Having said that, it probably could use a little more clarification in the overview section, and the second half of the intro could probably be relocated to a different subheading. I would do this myself, but as I said I really have no personal knowledge on the subject and it would probably be done better by someone who has. -- Gizzakk 17:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the glowing report! I am currently working on getting the references to build it up for FA: I have a rough idea of what else is needed, but scratching together citations is a little painful. I believe I could expand the overview (I may split it into two sections in doing so), but am unsure of where the "second half" of the intro actually lies. Do you mean from "The first novel,..." in the lead? Elric of Grans 23:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much from the sentence ...credited with starting the light novel trend in Japan. The second half would probably do better moved to a "style" subheading and possibly an "impact on xxxxx(whatever is most appropriate)" subheading.

Thanks for the advice: I shall look into that today. Elric of Grans 20:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I have plans to make a sort of `impact' section for the article, but am currently looking for good references before I make this move. It may take some time, as there seems to be nothing of use in English for this. Elric of Grans 23:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Nice to see light novels get a decent article for one. It's looking really good so far, I'm confused about the statement: "Boogiepop is best characterized as young adult fiction, and is credited with starting the trend in Japan." What trend? Trend of young adult fiction? It kinda seems hard that the genre of young adult fiction suddenly was created so late. I mean, it's a pretty broad genre there. Maybe you mean it was sort of like what Harry Potter did for English countries? Caused a newfound interest in reading in younger people? --SeizureDog 21:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice! I used "trend" as that was the word used in the source, and they did not clarify either. I am 90% sure it should mean "popularised light novels" (they were around before Boogiepop, but boomed afterwards), but am a little worried about changing to that without a second source to support this --- if it is safe to make that change, I will. Elric of Grans 23:15, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I assumed it meant light novels, but the sentence structure implies YA fiction so I got confused. I would say it's pretty safe to change that to light novels, but try to find something to pin it down. --SeizureDog 23:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response! I have just found a good reference for it, and will make the change promptly. Elric of Grans 00:13, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, actually going through the article now. Points to make:

• All of the "(English)" tags in the references should be removed. English is assumed by default. Those language tags should only clutter the references when the ref is not English. An exception I could see is if English was the minority of the references (e.g. only 2 English refs with 20 Japanese). Go ahead and keep them for the external links though.
• I think ISBNs are generally written without the hyphens in them. (I checked: both are used, but mostly without. Elric of Grans)
• "(English) Kadono, Kōhei [2001-02-01] (2006-04-24). Boogiepop Never Laughs. Seven Seas Entertainment. ISBN 1-933164-18-2, 187." Why are there two dates?
• The Terminology section is really iffy. Should be worked into the text.
• Not sure if you understand how romaji works really, but all long vowels in katakana are supposed to use macrons (thus, Bugiipoppu shiriizu → Bugīpoppu shirīzu) I'll go ahead and fix this for you. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) for info.
• "To face the 'enemies of the world', the shinigami Boogiepop automatically rises to the surface." What's with the use of single quotes? Unless this is a British thing or something, I don't think it's correct. Double quote it if it's a term used all the time in the series or change it to a normal sentence. Also, it's a really bad run-on sentence. (changed to double quotes, but does not appear to be a run-on sentence. Elric of Grans)
• A bit overkill on the dashes. Dashes should be use very rarely. Rewrite them using commas or parentheses. Also colons get used a bit too much. In general, there are too many advanced forms of punctuation being used, to the effect where they're being used incorrectly.
• Basically the whole thing needs a good copyedit. Example:
  "The mission of the Towa Organisation, and its agents, is to find MPLS – evolved humans – and eliminate them, however, Boogiepop will not let the Towa Organisation get its way, and he is not the only one out to stop them."
  →
  The mission of the Towa Organisation and its agents is to find MPLS ([say what it stands for]; evolved humans) and eliminate them. However, Boogiepop will not let the Towa Organisation get his way and he is not alone in his efforts.
  That last part was just gibberish, I had to reword it. I think that's what you meant.
• Is Boogiepop an organization or a person? It gets a bit confusing.
• There are companies mentioned in the Internationalisation section not shown in the infobox; add them.

Hope this helps some.--SeizureDog 00:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Two dates. The template has two date fields: one for date of original publication, and a second one for the date of the edition you used.

I rather thought that, but it's still odd. Looking at that, I noticed that in the info box it's called "Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh" and in the refs it says "Never" instead. Which is it? Also I believe that the double date thing would only really be needed if both versions were in the same language. I'm not sure about that though. --SeizureDog 01:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I have decided to take your suggestion on the dates; it probably adds nothing in having both after all. The title should be Doesn't: I accidentally used the old fan translation rather than the official one (again). Elric of Grans 02:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Termanology. I shall work that into the overview, as it probably does make more sense there anyway.

Romaji. I did what WP:MOS-JA says to do: use macrons for long o or u, but not for long a, i or e. "All other long vowels are written with without macrons: ああ → aa, いい → ii, and ええ → ee." Likewise, names are supposed to use the format used in the English publication (hence Touka, Anou, etc). I will not revert your changes if I am wrong, but it reads like I had the right idea. (I just read the next line. Sorry, my mistake Elric of Grans)

No worries, easy to overlook.--SeizureDog 01:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Odd punctuation. Personal habits. I shall set about changing them. Your example is mostly right, so I shall shamelessly use it. The Towa Organisation is an 'it' (an organisation) rather than a 'he', so that will need to be changed.

Boogiepop. He is either a supernatural being, or Miyashita Touka has multiple personalities: we do not know for sure. If it reads like an organisation, I shall have to fix that.

Missing companies. The infobox does not contain 'licensor' or 'distributor' fields for me to include them: I could add them to the template, but all anime articles would be missing them (eg the Excel Saga Infobox makes no mention of Madman Entertainment, though the article does).

Good point, I didn't think of that. --SeizureDog 01:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed response. I have begun making changes, and shall continue along the list today. Elric of Grans 01:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

(Blasted edit conflicts. If you don't mind, I'm just going to override your edit since they're just strikethroughs.)--SeizureDog 01:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for noting that, else I would have been a tad confused. Could you point out what made you think Boogiepop was an organisation though? I cannot see it Elric of Grans 02:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

That sentence I gave as an example and its alteration of "its" and "he". Plus it's never really stated either way which it is. --SeizureDog 02:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The 'its' is the Towa Organisation: "Boogiepop will not let the Towa Organisations get its [ie the Towa Oganisation's] way". Perhaps it is simply because they are my own words, so I obviously would know what I mean to say, but I cannot see the confusion there. I could probably do well to elaborate a little on Boogiepop though: there was more, but as it expanded, it moved into its own section, then its own article. I shall try to expand the first Overview paragraph into two: there is plenty on the Towa Organisation, but not much on the rest of the series.

I am currently in the process of tightening the prose too, so it should hopefully be starting to read a little better. Elric of Grans 02:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Must have just been reading it wrong. I dunno. Tired or somethin'. --SeizureDog 04:03, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

In response to the "is boogiepop an organization or a person, I got that it was a "death god" or some such after following the link, I believe it was to Shingami. The way it reads now is much better, however. -- Gizzakk 17:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Just had another thought - does MPLS actually stand for something (eg. an acronym), and if so, what? -- Gizzakk 17:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I imagine it is an acronym, but you will have to ask the author. In the English translations so far there has been no explanation, nor is there one in the Japanese Wikipedia article, or any website I have yet seen, so I have my suspicions that he has not told us yet. Elric of Grans 20:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Since the article covers the series as a whole, you should try to find an image of just the Boogiepop logo. --SeizureDog 23:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no real 'Boogiepop logo'. The closest to that would be a picture of Boogiepop himself, but I doubt I could use an artbook scan here under fair use, so a novel cover is probably the best I can do. If I am wrong about that, I would much rather use a different picture. Elric of Grans 09:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The Boogiepop logo is the word "Boogiepop". As in, that thing right before "And Others" or "Doesn't Laugh.

Ah, I see what you are getting at now. It is not used in all aspects of the series, but most English releases do use that style. There is a clean version of it (ie no "And Others" tacked on it) on the Seven Seas Entertainment website (which we can use). I shall extract it to a better-sized file and insert it today. In your opinion, should the article have any additional images, and if so how would I use them? For example, Wikipedia has no fair use template for "an illustration from a novel". Elric of Grans 23:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Do you know of any image that shows the entire main cast? Those are always good for the main article.--SeizureDog 23:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I have the artbook: it has the majority of the artwork for the series, up to the point it was published. There is only one good image I can recall, which is also used as the inside cover for the second light novel. It features Boogiepop, Suema and Kirima (the core protagonists) along with Taniguchi. The trouble with it is that whilst Boogiepop is in colour, the others are in shades of blue. A small scan of it is used at the top of Boogiepop: The Ultimate Guide (Part 1), if you are interested. I was tempted to use an artbook scan once, but none of the fair use templates fit it. Elric of Grans 00:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe you were looking for the Template:Character-artwork tag.--SeizureDog 01:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thanks! That one is not listed on the Upload File list, so I had not known about it. I have added the said image, and moved the logo into the article. I may need to play around with positioning a little later, as I am not sure that is the best way to do it. Elric of Grans 02:49, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh vol 2 got reviewed on Right Turn Only today, [1], thought I'd give you a heads up.

Also, Boogiepop really should be a redirect to Boogiepop series. Move Boogiepop over to Boogiepop (character).--SeizureDog 22:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, and the heads-up. I seem to have missed that article this morning. I have just got a copy of the NewType USA review of Boogiepop Phantom too, and hope to work it in soon. Elric of Grans 23:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Good start, but to short. See Excel Saga for a FA-class anime article.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus  talk}  15:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you perhaps elaborate? There is no guideline to length, except that it "is of an appropriate length". There are some pretty dramatic differences between the Boogiepop series and Excel Saga, so it can only be used as a very general guide --- besides, if I merged Characters of the Boogiepop series back in, it would be longer than Excel Saga (though it would be a worse article for it). Boogiepop and Others (novel) is almost as long as Excel Saga by itself, but needs a heck of a lot more work: length alone is not very telling. There are some points I know need expanding (as noted in the todo box), but am finding it difficult to get acceptable references for them: any further suggestions outside of that list would prove most useful. Elric of Grans 01:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

While merge back is not needed, the article needs a section on characters, the world, on epiosdes (plotline summary) and well, I'd suggest you take a look at what are the sections of Excel Saga article and make sure this article covers the same points.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus  talk}  16:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are thinking about Boogiepop Phantom: while it is touched upon on this article, this is more about the core plot and characters of the Boogiepop series. I could merge the protagonists back in without reducing the quality of the article, but there is little known about the world (the city it all happens in is never even named!), and a plot summary would be nigh impossible --- we are 14 core novels (so far), 4 side novels, a movie, six short stories and a 12 episode anime, and the plots between each vary dramatically. I have already written in a summary of the connecting plot to the article, but doing any more would surely reduce the quality. Elric of Grans 20:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point, however in that case the series article should be even longer.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)