Ami Mizuno edit
This is an article about a fictional character in the Sailor Moon series. The Sailor Moon Wikiproject hopes to nominate the article as a Good Article Candidate some time in the near future. Main points: is it easy to understand for non-fans? Does it steer clear of WP:OR? Does it stray into cruftiness? Does it follow Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) enough? Does the 'profile' section read well? (It's been recently rewritten). Thanks. -Malkinann 21:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, APR t 23:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
- Looks like Malkinann did a pretty good with most of those already. :) The only things that remain to be done of those suggestions are the lead (I've been putting some thought into that) and one musical song whose description just needs verification. Actually, I can get rid of that uncertainty just by snipping half a sentence. Okay! --Masamage 01:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Second half of the article is far too listy. See Wikipedia:Embedded list.
- The "Senshi powers" seems too crufty to me and "Music" seems out of place in a character article.
- A poll of 586 votes doesn't seem credible enough to claim that she is "the most popular character in the series". I'm sure plenty of other polls of similar size have had any of the Sailors win.
- The article quickly aquires an overly in-universe tone.
- The "Profile" section contains too many overly trivial details. Do we really need to know that "Besides reading, Ami loves playing chess and swimming"? Tighten this up.--SeizureDog 19:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the perspective on the lists - I didn't realise how listy the article was until you pointed it out. We'll have a think about how to paragraph some of the lists. I'm unsure if we should remove the Senshi powers, as that would take away from the comprehensiveness of the article, but perhaps if we talked more generally about Ami's role in battle as the brains that'd be a solution? The poll seems to have had more than one thousand votes.. but we're looking for a better reference on that. I agree that it does seem in-universe in places... I'm not sure about your familiarity with Sailor Moon, but part of the appeal lies in the varied characters, ie. the dollbox statistics. If we tried to remove any of the statistics details, (swimming, blood type, school club) it'd come back so often it just wouldn't be funny. -Malkinann 11:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- It's true. People are constantly editing those parts. Even when the stats were in a list, folks came and added duplicates of the list. --Masamage 22:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well do try to do something about it. Right now it feels like an article that goes on and on about what Peter Parker's favorite foods and hobbies are, only to end with "oh yeah, he also happens to be Spider-Man". Seriously, compare "Profile" to "Aspects and forms". If you can find that much to say about her normal self, it seems like there should be more information (aside from an attack list) for her most important role.--SeizureDog 17:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, that does put it in perspective. I've put up a section stub. Does the profile read better now that Masamage has tried to make it out of universe? -Malkinann 21:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- Amen to Malkinann. Later this afternoon I'll see what I can do about expanding the Senshi section, and possibly providing more context for the statistics. It's true that right now they're like, "Yay the cute shy one likes sandwiches yay!" --Masamage 22:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well do try to do something about it. Right now it feels like an article that goes on and on about what Peter Parker's favorite foods and hobbies are, only to end with "oh yeah, he also happens to be Spider-Man". Seriously, compare "Profile" to "Aspects and forms". If you can find that much to say about her normal self, it seems like there should be more information (aside from an attack list) for her most important role.--SeizureDog 17:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- It's true. People are constantly editing those parts. Even when the stats were in a list, folks came and added duplicates of the list. --Masamage 22:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- Regarding the Attacks section, I have just finished rewriting it as prose on a Project test page. Is it better? --Masamage 02:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, much better. Now it focuses on which attacks are important and not every single tiny one that might be used.--SeizureDog 17:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Cool. I'm seeing what the Project people think about making it official. Thanks for the feedback! :) --Masamage 22:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, much better. Now it focuses on which attacks are important and not every single tiny one that might be used.--SeizureDog 17:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- If we changed the 'Music' section header to say 'Image songs', would that make it less incongruous? Or should it perhaps be prose-ified too, and made to include her poems and things as well? --Masamage 05:08, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- My point is that it's not really relevent. Information on image songs would be best served at its own article. e.g. List of Haruhi Suzumiya albums and Haruhi Suzumiya character song albums.--SeizureDog 06:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- Some of them are pretty relevant. They appear in anime episodes, or they make statements about the character that aren't made so clearly anywhere else. (In at least one case we're using an image poem as a reference.) Anyway, most of the characters had multiple "single" albums, and there are many dozen larger albums covering at least a hundred SM songs, probably more. I shudder to think of cataloguing them all there are entire, enormous websites devoted to that. My feeling is that if it comes to cruft, this is definitely the least crufty way to handle the music, and if there's a lack of context for why the heck a music section exists, there probably should be more prose. --Masamage 07:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- The fact that's she has image songs is important for the average reader to know. Specificly which songs however, is not. Homer Simpson has also sang a number of songs throughout his series, but that doesn't mean he needs a section listing them. Just take "A number of image songs featuring Ami's character have been released.", stick it in the lead (which I just realized really needs to be expanded), and remove the rest.--SeizureDog 09:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- Some of them are pretty relevant. They appear in anime episodes, or they make statements about the character that aren't made so clearly anywhere else. (In at least one case we're using an image poem as a reference.) Anyway, most of the characters had multiple "single" albums, and there are many dozen larger albums covering at least a hundred SM songs, probably more. I shudder to think of cataloguing them all there are entire, enormous websites devoted to that. My feeling is that if it comes to cruft, this is definitely the least crufty way to handle the music, and if there's a lack of context for why the heck a music section exists, there probably should be more prose. --Masamage 07:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- My point is that it's not really relevent. Information on image songs would be best served at its own article. e.g. List of Haruhi Suzumiya albums and Haruhi Suzumiya character song albums.--SeizureDog 06:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for the perspective on the lists - I didn't realise how listy the article was until you pointed it out. We'll have a think about how to paragraph some of the lists. I'm unsure if we should remove the Senshi powers, as that would take away from the comprehensiveness of the article, but perhaps if we talked more generally about Ami's role in battle as the brains that'd be a solution? The poll seems to have had more than one thousand votes.. but we're looking for a better reference on that. I agree that it does seem in-universe in places... I'm not sure about your familiarity with Sailor Moon, but part of the appeal lies in the varied characters, ie. the dollbox statistics. If we tried to remove any of the statistics details, (swimming, blood type, school club) it'd come back so often it just wouldn't be funny. -Malkinann 11:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I've done as you've suggested, saving the song list in the talk page - maybe if the songs are particularly relevant, they'll make their way back in as references? -Malkinann 10:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I've also had a go at expanding the lead, as in WP:LEAD - I'm not sure how sparklingly it reads, though. -Malkinann 10:29, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
What next? edit
What should we do now? Have we achieved GA quality or no? How can we accomplish that if not? --Masamage 19:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- We've expanded the section on Ami's "Sailor Mercury" role + lead and significantly expanded the section on her "Dark Sailor Mercury" role. Maybe the FU rationale for DSM needs work? If the peer review doesn't seem like we'll get any more comments, we can always request that it gets archived - although it seems that a FAC is an automatic out of the peer review system.. ;) -Malkinann 05:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- I updated the FU rationale for DSM's image, which brings them all up-to-date except for the picture of Chisaki Hama in civilian clothes. I have no idea where that one comes from. Unless it's on the Oracle? I'll check that when I get home tonight. Anyway, I'm going to try and figure out if it's kosher to ask the main WP Anime talk page to come look over here. If it is, I'll try that and we can get some more insight before moving on. --Masamage 22:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know - I'd thought eternal-moon.org, but it doesn't seem to be there. Maybe we should swap it to one of her with glasses (cos we talk about her glasses a lot)??? -Malkinann 23:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- I updated the FU rationale for DSM's image, which brings them all up-to-date except for the picture of Chisaki Hama in civilian clothes. I have no idea where that one comes from. Unless it's on the Oracle? I'll check that when I get home tonight. Anyway, I'm going to try and figure out if it's kosher to ask the main WP Anime talk page to come look over here. If it is, I'll try that and we can get some more insight before moving on. --Masamage 22:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
