Wikipedia:Peer review/All About That Bass/archive2

All About That Bass

Previous peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because I plan on taking it to FAC soon. I think it is already decent but could benefit from being looked over by a few trustworthy eyes.

Thanks, NØ 15:34, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Aoba47

If it is alright with you, I am going to leave this up as a placeholder and come back to this hopefully by the end of next week. I am having issues with my primary laptop and I am taking it in for repair this weekend (which hopefully be resolved in a single trip), but once that is completed, I will provide a review. I am looking forward to reading the article and I have a lot of respect for you for pursuing a FAC on a song that was this well-known and popular. I hope you are doing well and have a great weekend. Aoba47 (talk) 17:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

• Is there a reason for putting the L.A. Reid image so low in the "Writing and production" section? I am only curious as it cuts into the "Release" section, at least in my browser.
• I would re-examine the first paragraph of the "Writing and production" section. I do not think the information flows together as strongly as it could. I think these two sentences in particular (At the time, Trainor had yet to obtain a recording contract and was writing tracks for other artists. and Intending to give it to another artist, Trainor would later release it as her debut single.) are out of place as this paragraph seems more focused on Trainor writing the song with Kadish. It may be better to find a different place for this information (like the third paragraph which talks more about this topic).
• I would link catchy on its first instance.
• I think the following part, She later performed the song, accompanying herself on an ukulele, in front of Reid; she was signed with Epic Records by Reid 20 minutes later., could be revised to something like She performed the song on an ukulele for Reid who signed her with Epic Records 20 minutes later.. I think the current semi-colon construction is a little off.
• I have a suggestion for this part: Trainor's vocals were recorded by Kadish, at The Carriage House in Nolensville, Tennessee, who was also responsible for the track's mixing, programming, sound design, and engineering. To put in in a more active voice, I would instead say Kadish record Trainor's vocals at The Carriage House in Nolensville, Tennessee and was also responsible for the track's mixing, programming, sound design, and engineering.
• Link extended play in the "Release" section and put the acronym (EP) in parenthesis after is first use to clarify what that means as it is used later on without an introduction.
• For this sentence, The vocals of "All About That Bass" have been compared to the harmonies of 1960s girl groups and vintage 1950s singers Betty Everett, Doris Day, Eydie Gormé and Rosemary Clooney., I would attribute the writer in the prose as this is one critic's opinions. When it is a single critic's opinion, I think it is always best to attribute them in the prose. I would say the same comment applies to the final three sentences of the "Composition and lyrical interpretation" section's second paragraph. I would think there would be a way to do this without being repetitive.
• For this part, According to some, clarify who the "some" are.
• I would be careful about phrasing like echoed Shah's view. While Caramanica had a similar opinion to Shah, "echoed" may imply a strong connection to the two and that Caramanica may have written this in response to Shah.
• Eydie Gormé and Rosemary Clooney are linked twice.
• I do not think the Chris Molanphy review should be given that much space as I think it gives undue weight to that review over the others.
• The Miranda Lambert sentence does not really belong in the "Accolades" sub-section. I would instead move it down to the part about where they perform the song together.
• In the "Accolades" sub-section, I notice a lot of "was nominated" and I would try to add some variation to avoid the prose becoming stale.
• I believe Idolator should be in italics.
• I do not think "now-defunct" is necessary for this part, now-defunct social media service Vine, and I think it is encouraged to not use stuff like "now-X" in general.
• Reggae is linked twice. I would look through the article to check for duplinks like these.

Here is everything I noticed from a first read-through. I hope these comments are helpful, and please let me know if anything needs further clarification. Unfortunately, I am still having computer issues so I will read through the article again when everything is figured out (hopefully soon). @SandyGeorgia: Please feel free to do a further look at the prose. I have another computer repair appointment scheduled for Saturday so it will be a while before I can do a more thorough review. Apologies for that. I hope you both are having a great end to your weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 23:32, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• One more quick comment. I noticed that on the article's talk page, there is a comment comparing this song to Betty Wright's "Don't Forget To Say I Love You Today". I honestly do not hear the "heavy influence" and I did a super brief Google search and I could not find any coverage on this. What is your opinion on this? Aoba47 (talk) 05:28, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks a lot for the comments, Aoba. I am in the process of rewriting the first few sections and will then assess whether each bullet point has been addressed. I didn't find anything about the Betty Wright comparison in sources either. I will have another look now that you mention it, though.--NØ 05:58, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
• Aoba47, sorry for bothering but I wanted to ask your opinion on the Controversy section. Do you think it should be merged into Critical reception or kept as it is?--NØ 12:29, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

• I think that it would make sense to merge the Controversy section with the Critical reception section as they are both about how the song was received. I think that would be a good idea. And it is no bother so no need to apologize. Aoba47 (talk) 16:49, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
• And best of luck with rewriting the first few sections. Aoba47 (talk) 16:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you! I would really appreciate more comments from you (if you have any), whenever the laptop situation is figured out.--NØ 18:27, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for addressing my comments. I will look through the article again sometime next week when hopefully all of the computer shenanigans are properly handled. Apologies for the delay there and @SandyGeorgia: feel free to review the article further. I may pop in and do some copy-edits to the article and I would make sure to explain any adjustments in the edit summaries. Aoba47 (talk) 01:30, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
• I do have one quick note though. In the "Critical reception" section, I would avoid having a one-sentence paragraph. I understand why you have done it this way as it represents the different reactions to the song (i.e. being on a best and a worst song list of 2014), but I think it would be better to incorporate this into the section's first paragraph, which is already about how music critics were divided over the song anyway. Aoba47 (talk) 01:32, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

• I have a comment about this part, attempted to promote self-acceptance, from the lead. I understand the wording given the criticism on the song's message, but I think by saying "attempted", it presents this perceived failure a little too much in Wikipedia's own voice. Instead, I think it may be better to rephrase this part to something like inspired by Trainor's struggles with body image and intention to promote self-acceptance. You could play around with the wording, but I think tying it back to Trainor would be better.
• I am not entirely certain what this part, enjoyable nature, from the lead means. Could you explain it to me?
• This part, criticized its lyrics for shaming thin women and encouraging females to rely on men's opinions for validation, from the lead seems rather wordy to me, especially since the sentence is rather long already. Do you think something like criticized its lyrics as contradicting its self-acceptance message would be helpful? I am just trying think of a way to make it a little more concise.
• In the "Background" section, I think it would be helpful to link treble clef and bass clef as they are fairly technical terms in music and a link may help a reader understand how they relate to thickness and body types.
• You mention a family-friendly version for Radio Disney that has different lyrics, but I was curious if there were any sources that include examples of these changes? I think it would be helpful to include one example to illustrate how the song was adapted to fit a younger audience.
• I would avoid one-word quotes (i..e ""bolstered", "vivid", "successful", and "impressive") whenever possible. I received this note during a past FAC and I found it really helpful. It is best to paraphrase these quotes whenever possible as one-word quotes are rarely helpful for readers and they may actually take away from the other quotes used in the article.

Fortunately, I found an old, wireless keyboard so I am able to better use my computer until I can bring it into the Apple store. I have looked through the article again and these are my last comments. I think you have done a great job, and I hope more people will participate in the peer review in the future. I will leave the rest up in SandyGeorga's very capable hands (as she is a far better reviewer than myself lol). I think the song's success was a double-edged sword for Trainor. I'd be curious if the record label ever considered pulling the song from radio like it was done for "Crazy" to avoid having people become sick of it lol. Anyway, have a great week! Aoba47 (talk) 02:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

• Done, Aoba47. Thanks for the c/e too! If I remember correctly, she was burnt out on pop radio after AATB and Lips Are Movin, and only recovered her momentum with "Like I'm Gonna Lose You" which was a nice change of sound for her I think :) --NØ 05:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for your quick response, and that makes sense from what I remember from that time period. In somewhat related news, I have heard that Trainor will be doing a NBC sitcom. I hope it goes well as she does have a great personality for that kind of thing and it makes sense for her to try and diversify her career outside of music. Best of luck with the article again! Aoba47 (talk) 16:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

• I am really excited for the sitcom as well. On another note, I noticed that a lack of academic citations has been a common criticism at recent FACs, so I scoured the Internet and found a few: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Since you have more experience in these matters, do you think any of these are reliable / worth adding / useful here?--NØ 08:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

• I think only the second one looks appropriate as it comes from a credible journal. The first one looks like lecture notes and the fourth one is an honors thesis so that invalidates both of them in my opinion. I have heard arguments for using a M.A. thesis or a dissertation, but I would never think a honors thesis would be appropriate for Wikipedia. I'm not so sure about the third one. The Lulu.com publication gives me doubts, but I would do further research into the Journal of Interdisciplinary Science to learn more about it as it may be appropriate. I hope this is helpful. Aoba47 (talk) 18:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

• I have one more quick question. The infobox says that the song was recorded in September 2013, but I do not see this represented in the article. Could you point out to me where this is supported? Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from SandyGeorgia

• You can install User:GregU/dashes.js to keep your MOS:DASHes vs. hyphens in order.
• You can install User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates to keep your date formatting consistent.
• You can install User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to check for WP:OVERLINKing; some of the duplicates may be justifiable, and that requires a judgment call, so I have not removed them.
• See overuse of however and User:Tony1/How to improve your writing (also is almost always redundant) and User:John/however. Both are present.
• Be sure to have a look at WP:RECEPTION for tips on writing "critical reception".
• MOS:CAPTIONS, samples only, this is not a full sentence, sentence fragments should not end with punctuation ... Trainor performing "All About That Bass" during the Jingle Ball Tour on December 10, 2014.
• Prose redundancy ... were recognized by a variety of publications for playing into pop
• On non-English-language citations, please provide the original title in |title= and the translation to English in |trans-title=
• Review that all citations are complete (publisher, author and date when available), for example, this one is missing publisher ... "Hitlisten.NU – Danmarks officielle hitlister". January 9, 2015. Archived from the original on January 17, 2015. Retrieved September 24, 2018.
  • Another sample missing publisher: "Mark Ronson & Bruno Mars top 100, Maroon 5 Debuts at #8". Archived from the original on November 8, 2015. Retrieved March 6, 2015.
• MOS:ALLCAPS, sample, "FIMI – Classifiche Annuali 2014 "TOP OF THE MUSIC" FIMI-GfK: un anno di musica italiana" (in Italian).
• There are twelve uses of the word performed in the "Live performances" section, indicating an urgent need to vary wording.

Please ping me after Aoba47 has been through and I will take a further look at the prose, but the overuse of the word performed gives an idea that the prose needs some work still to be brought to FA standard. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, March 20, 2021‎ (UTC)

MaranoFan I will be happy to look through again once you have addressed Aabo47's comments and mine; please ping me then. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, I believe I have addressed the comments so far. Please feel free to continue whenever you please.--NØ 17:25, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

On my list, thanks Aoba47, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:44, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

SG continuing

I prefer to start over, so please pardon me if I mention something already raised. My knowledge of the material is a) I had never heard of the song until Casey Abrams and Morgan James did the Postmodern JukeBox version (unclear if that warrants a notable mention, but because of my friend Casey, I became a Morgan James fan), and b) I had still never heard of Meghan Trainor until recent FACs. So that's my total knowledge of the song (glad to say I saw the PMJ version before this dreadful pink stuff).

• Image caption, Trainor and her accompanying dancers performing intricate choreography in front of a pink pastel-colored backdrop in the music video for "All About That Bass" ... Intricate sounds like opinion and I can't find it mentioned/sourced in the article (or the caption).
• All of this is excess detail is ... ugh ... must it be here per some guideline, or can it be moved to a footnote?

  "All About That Bass" peaked atop national record charts in 58 countries,[92][93] including, Austria,[94] Bulgaria,[95] Denmark,[96] Germany,[97] Hungary,[98] Ireland,[99] Israel,[100] Poland,[101] Scotland,[102] Slovakia,[103] Slovenia,[104] Spain,[105] Switzerland.[106] The song additionally made the top five, at number two in Belgium (Wallonia),[107] Czech Republic,[108] Norway,[109] South Africa,[110] number three in the Netherlands,[111] Sweden,[112] and number five in Belgium (Flanders),[113] Italy.[114]

• This switch in date style is jarring; can the sentence be recast so that they are expressed similarly (either both in parens or both not in parens)?

  The song was included on Trainor's first extended play (EP), Title (2014), and her 2015 studio album of the same name.

• I suspect a better word than intention can be found for here, but what that might be escapes me:

  struggles with body image and intention to promote self-acceptance

  That one was my fault. I was also struggling to think of a better word, but that was my suggestion for the time being. I thought of desire to promote self-acceptance or goal to promote self-acceptance, but those may be awkward as well. Aoba47 (talk) 17:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

  Not an easy one. When you can't find a word, re-cast the sentence. Maybe ... A bubblegum pop, doo-wop and retro-R&B song, "All About That Bass" was written by Trainor and its producer, Kevin Kadish. Trainor struggled with body image issues as a teenager, and was inspired to write the song to promote self-acceptance. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:24, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

• That seems like a good alternative to me. Aoba47 (talk) 18:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

• Punctuation problem here (colon before some rather than comma):

  Critics were divided on "All About That Bass", some praised its production and memorable message, while others called it a novelty song and criticized the failure of its lyrics to empower every body type.

• becoming the fourth best-selling song of 2014 with sales of 11 million copies worldwide. --> becoming the fourth best-selling song of 2014 with 11 million copies sold worldwide.
• This is awkward prose; I don't know how to fix it:

  Kadish read Trainor his list of potential song titles, from which she liked "All Bass, No Treble" the most ... maybe, of which "All Bass, No Treble" was her favorite?

• This sentence is covering too much territory, needs to be two sentences: Trainor suggested using self-acceptance and body image as a theme for the lyrics, inspired by her own struggles with self-image as a teenager,[3] which she told Rolling Stone that Kadish could relate to as he had similar experiences during his childhood.
• This is the kind of (over-quoted) material one finds often in song articles that doesn't really warrant a quote; it can be rephrased in Wikipedia's own voice.

  She said to him, "Let's do booty! And thickness! Like, it's about the bass, not the treble".[7] --> She suggested a booty theme with "it's about the bass, not the treble".

I'm going to stop there. I think this is well on its way to being FAC ready, but needs a wee bit more of finetooth copyediting to assure smoother sailing at FAC. Good luck !! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

All done. I will add a ping after the GOCE c/e is completed. Regards.--NØ 08:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)