Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Modern Family (season 1)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by The Rambling Man 18:27, 17 February 2011 [1].

Modern Family (season 1)

Featured list candidates/Modern Family (season 1)/archive1

Nominator(s): NoD'ohnuts (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe that it is ready to be among the other televsion seasons like 30 Rock (season 1) or The Office (U.S. season 2) NoD'ohnuts (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2011 (UTC)NoD'ohnuts[reply]

Support. No problems from me; any concerns I had were addressed in an earlier review. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 00:27, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - Ref 5-7 have no publisher. You use different date formats for Ref 1, 4, 13, 21, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39-62. Ref 19-22, 39-62 have no retrieval dates. Appears to be an error in Ref 24. Modern-family-tv.com is a fansite with no clear Verifiability. Also I'm bringing into question whether yourentertainmentnow.com can constitute as a Reliable. Afro (Talk) 04:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Matthewedwards : Chat :

The first sentence has three wikilinked terms next to each other, appearing to be a link to a single article (WP:MOSLINK)
You could unlink "comedy" and "television series" without losing understanding. Who in the English speaking world doesn't know what either are?
Should "9 pm" be "9:00 pm"? Either way, "pm" should be completely dotted or completely undotted ("pm" or "p.m.", not "p.m") (MOS:TIME)
The production sections are upside down. Without a concept there would be no writing, cast or crew.
Per latest practice, the episode list table should be the first section of the article
DVD section should follow WP:MOSTV#Media information and WP:MOSTV#DVD releases more closely. Instead of a box listing gag reels, Making ofs, alternate scenes and the like, which almost all TV season boxsets include, focus, in prose, on marketing, special featurettes that discuss something unique about the season etc, and read the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (television)#DVD information. Are the DVD special features content notable? If they've been given coverage in secondary sources, well okay, otherwise it just seems like we're saying "this is why you should by the DVD", and that should be left to Amazon.
For the sentence "The lowest rated episode was "Fizbo", which was viewed by an estimated 7.12 million households with a 2.4 rating/7% share in the 18–49 demographic although this is because it aired Thanksgiving Eve according to Nielsen Media Research." -- Ref 17 doesn't really say that it's because of Thanksgiving, it implies that the readers might come to that conclusion, and certainly Nielsen didn't say that's why it got the lowest ratings.
The one-sentence paragraph about being renewed for a second season doesn't belong in Conception and writing because it has nothing to do with either.
The section title tells us there's going to be something about the writing, but there is nothing about the writing, just a short paragraph that two of the actors did some improv.
"30 Rock" not "30 Rocks"

I haven't really given the article a good going over because I think it's an unnecessary WP:CFORK of Modern Family and List of Modern Family episodes and goes against MOS:TV.

Of the Production section, the conception bit of it such as why they didn't pitch to Fox or why NBC turned them down is new, but really that is sspecific to the series, not the season, and should be in the main page.
Other bits like the main cast paragraph offers nothing new over the main article, and in fact is just a condensed version of Modern Family#Cast and characters (That one lists the guest stars). WP:SS says it should actually be the other way around.
The critical reception subsection mostly repeats exactly what the Critical reception section of Modern Family does. The first paragraph and first half of the second is the same, and the third paragraph is the same, even going as far as talking about a second season episode.
The Recognitions is a complete repeat of Modern Family.

In the correct hierarchy of TV show articles, Modern Family is let's say a "level one" summary style article, and List of Modern Family episodes is a "level 2" summary style article. This page should contain all the major points of the season in detail but instead, apart from the episode descriptions, it doesn't. This page is largely a summary of the main series article, and that shouldn't happen. A reader doesn't want to, or shouldn't have to, go from a detailed article to a sub-article with less detail, to a third sub-article with even less, or worse, repeated detail. He should go from an article that summarises the main points to sub-articles that offer more detail and more information. That doesn't happen here.

Not trying to sound like an AFD argument, but even with a confirmed third season on the way there doesn't seem to be any legitimate reason for keeping season pages by arguing that Modern Family and List of Modern Family episodes will be too large unless separate season pages stay. Modern Family has more information about the first season than this page does, with a few minor exceptions such as ratings and a list of writers which really could be added to that article since the series is only halfway into its second season. Additionally, MOS:TV#Multiple pages also agrees on this and says that for very lengthy series with over 80 episodes (usually after 3 seasons), a list of episodes page should be broken down into season pages with the main list being a summary of those. This series has just over 35 episodes to date, so the summaries should be at the main list of episodes page.

I would work on putting the few bits of prose that is exclusive to this page in Modern Family (and season 2 pages, of which there is little new info) and take that to GA or FA. Put the summaries in the table at List of Modern Family episodes and bring that back here. Currently I have to oppose this page. Matthewedwards : Chat 00:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I just like to note that all the fixes have been made and that multiple shows have season pages such as Community and Glee and both are only two season longNoD'ohnuts (talk) 22:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)NoD'ohnuts[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I'm reviewing this page, not any other. While Glee may be suitable for season pages already (the show has been covered in all sorts of mediums, including specially produced magazines, books, reviews, trade magazine profiles, etc in an amount that hasn't really been seen before), Community and Modern Family do not. Matthewedwards : Chat 04:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think the main thing that would separate Glee from this discussion is the fact the clear amount of detail and coverage which has been covered in the first and second season articles which is a good example of WP:SIZE. I do agree with Matthew to a degree that this might just fall short of WP:SIZE. Afro (Talk) 04:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments One more comment is that, my nominee has more information on reception, conception, awards and rating than the main articleNoD'ohnuts (talk) 23:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)NoD'ohnuts[reply]

As it should be. However, I believe the article could still easily be merged into Modern Family. Of course some stuff here and there may have to go, but with some careful consideration it shouldn't be too difficult to find it without losing coherence. Anything that is removed could always be put into the relevant episode article, too. I still don't think this article needs to exist, and I can't support it being something we brag about as an example of one of the best lists Wikipedia has to offer its readers. I'm sorry about that; it has nothing to do with the actual prose or content, just the location of it (what I mean is were it actually at Modern Family, I would more than likely be prepared to promote it at GA and would likely support at FAC following a complete review. And were the table at List of Modern Family episodes I would probably be happy to support that at this forum). Matthewedwards : Chat 05:41, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well then you can just remove this nomination, and I'll nominated List of Modern Family episodes. NoD'ohnuts (talk) 17:25, 4 February 2011 (UTC)NoD'ohnuts[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.