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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of songs recorded by Cheryl Cole/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Hahc21 10:01, 12 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of songs recorded by Cheryl Cole edit

List of songs recorded by Cheryl Cole (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): AARON• TALK 20:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... I have promoted five other lists similar to this to FL for other singer's and believe that I have taken comments raised in previous nominations of mine and have applied them to this article. I think it is a nice, simple yet informative, concise list. AARON• TALK 20:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "collaborations with others." Other what? Be specific, I take it you mean recording artists?
    I've been told to remove this from my 5 previous nominations of song lists for Rihanna, Adele etc. AARON• TALK
    As far as I'm concerned its currently too ambiguous, it could refer to anything. High quality prose should have no ambiguities, it needs to be explicit who the others are. NapHit (talk) 01:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    How about "other singers", "other musicians", "other artists"...  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 01:21, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    honestly, don't see why it can't be recording artists, that is what they are. The three options above could relate to more professions in the arts world, this way the reader is clear we are dealing people who record music. NapHit (talk) 11:33, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cole's first solo recording outside of the girl band that she is a member of, Girls Aloud..." This is not professional prose, needs revising
  • "on 16 October 2009 and was written..." Comma after 2009, replace and with which
  • you start off the third para saying a year later, but this is not correct. The last date you referred was the same year as the one in this sentence. I would remove the phrase altogether
  • I'm a bit concerned that the prose just reads like list of who wrote what at the moment. There is not a lot of flow between sentences. I would suggest getting an experienced editor to give it a copyedit
    I'm just following how the the 5 FLs are written which have been promoted. AARON• TALK
    That may be so, but its not an excuse to pass up the issue just because its modelled after other lists. You need to improve the flow between sentences, as I state above it just reads like a list of facts currently. Needs a copyedit to polish it.NapHit (talk) 01:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I've made a change to the bit about Call My Name by mentioning the genre, is that the sort thing you would like me to apply to make it flow? AARON• TALK 18:43, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    By flow, I mean how one sentence runs into another. Although adding that info is helpful it doesn't address the issue. You need to ensure the sentences flow into each other and don't read like this: Person A wrote this song. Person B wrote this song, which is how it reads to me at the moment. NapHit (talk) 12:03, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to echo here. I have read the lead and although it is properly sourced, I am not completely comfortable at how it is written. I understand that this does not apply only to your list, but to all lists of this type. I'd prefer a lead focused on recurrent songwriters and genres, evolution of music styles through her studio albums, meaning and performance of most successful or widely known songs, and so on, but all meshed together to have an engaging prose. — ΛΧΣ21 18:00, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The table shouldn't change when it is initially sorted. 3 worlds needs to be moved to the top or forced to sort to to the bottom
  • Contents box is missing the letter A, J and Y when there are songs that start with those letters
  • hyphens in references should be en dashes
Those edits have resulted in &endash; displaying instead of the actual dash. Use the small dash above the edit summary box instead. Also I still see hyphens in refs 6 and 7. NapHit (talk) 01:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 12:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed all. AARON• TALK 12:32, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In its current state I'm going to have to oppose this nomination. The prose does not meet featured standards, an example being: "Cole is also member of Girls Aloud". The flow between sentences is almost non-existent an needs working on before it meets the criteria. NapHit (talk) 01:58, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 04:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Status:
  • I feel like it should mention her being a part of Girls Aloud before you go into when she began her solo career.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 01:21, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I had done, but I had to revise the sentence as above. AARON• TALK 01:22, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I asked you to revise the sentence, not remove it entirely. You need to mention she was/is a member of Girls Aloud, as that what she is primarily known for.NapHit (talk) 12:00, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    It is now.  — AARON • TALK 00:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead goes into way too much detail. For example "released on 5 May 2008", "also released on 29 October 2010", etc. That does not help provide a summary of songs she has recorded.
    Other nominations reviewers have asked me specifically to include release dates, which is why I have for some.  — AARON • TALK 00:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    They are completely wrong. xD  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    What is wrong?  — AARON • TALK 16:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    The dates in which songs were released is not relevant at all to her recording of them.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 03:08, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Although, I would say it is important to note the release of a few. Such as "Heartbreaker" (her first song as a solo article) and "Fight for This Love" (her first solo single).  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 17:25, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I think, for the albums, it gives it some flow, becaus e"Cole released her second album called Messy Little Raindrops." wouldn't read right.  — AARON • TALK
    For the albums, I'd say it's OK (Although I'd prefer just saying the month), but I'm referring to the songs. Like, for example, when "Check It Out" was released.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 04:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Done.  — AARON • TALK 11:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additionally, the EP she released only features b-sides, so songs were not recorded for it.
    Changed.  — AARON • TALK 00:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 — Statυs (talk, contribs) 22:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 14:24, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Regarding the Contents, a bullet point is missing between B and C, the N link doesn't go anywhere, and an R link is missing.
  • How is Jean Baptiste credited on the albums? His name is spelt with a hyphen in this list, but without one in our article on him.
  • A Million Lights needs to sort under M.
  • I'd swap around "Songs About Girls" and "3 Words" so that Heartbreaker sorts with the other tracks on the album.
  • Might also be worth changing the category "Cheryl Cole" to "Cheryl Cole songs".
  • "Call My Name -> "Call My Name"

Once these issues and the above comments about the lead are resolved, I'll be happy to support. Nice work! Incidentally, I've got my own FLC: HMV's Poll of Polls. If you have the time, I welcome any comments on it. Thanks very much! A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 16:48, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done all. Thanks. AARON• TALK 17:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not exactly a featured list criterion, but are there any other images that could be included in this article? For example, photos of the songwriters that Cole has collaborated with the most, or of people mentioned in the lead? A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 14:24, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah I can add some.  — AARON • TALK 15:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Added some.  — AARON • TALK 20:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I remember rightly, "Everybody Hurts" was credited to just Helping Haiti. I don't think it necessarily needs to be in italics either. Also, just for the sake of consistency, it might be worth changing "Charity record" to "Single release only".
    Disagree about the "Single release only" AARON• TALK
    The thing is that you've already used "Single release only" for "Check It Out", so I think it would be better for consistency to use the same convention for "Everybody Hurts". The fact that some of the profits from sales of "Everybody Hurts" were donated to charity isn't entirely relevant – what is relevant is that it didn't feature on an album.
    Yeah, but "Check it Out" is not for charity, the whole purpose of "Everybody Hurts" was to raise money for Haiti. I'll include both.  — AARON • TALK
    The "purpose" of the single isn't really relevant to the Album column. Using "Charity single release" for Everybody Hurts and "Single release only" for Check It Out means that they don't group together when the column is sorted. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 02:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    But there were released as different types of singles.  — AARON • TALK 20:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Personally I'd dispute the idea that there are different "types" of singles, but that's beside the point – the point is that whatever "type" of singles they were isn't relevant in the Album column. The cells in the column just need to highlight that these two songs didn't feature on any album. Now, whether they say "Single release only" or "Non-album single" or something else entirely is up to you, but they need to say the same thing a) for consistency, and b) so that they group together when the column is sorted. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 18:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't really agree, as they are different types of releases, but I've changed it anyway.  — AARON • TALK 00:45, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Might be worth listing in the caption when that photo of Cheryl Cole was taken, i.e. "Cheryl Cole during a live performance in 2008". A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 18:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Done.  — AARON • TALK
  • The writers for "Didn't I" and "Boys" are listed on their respective articles (i.e. here and here) – any reason they can't be included?
    Because those two songs aren't in the booklet, so those articles actually have original research. AARON• TALK
    Could the songwriters be sourced from the booklets for the singles, if they're available?
    No information about those B-sides are in the booklet.  — AARON • TALK 15:04, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmm... What about from, say, the inserts in the CD cases for these singles. Do you happen to have them, by any chance? A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 02:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    There weren't physical CD singles lol. We aren't in that age anymore. And I would definitely not have them even if they did.  — AARON • TALK 20:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    There certainly were CD versions available for those singles (see here, here and here). Presumably the writers of the B-sides were listed somewhere on the inserts (e.g. have a look at the second image for 3 Words). Obviously, if you don't have them, I guess there's nothing that you can really do. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 18:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Either way, I don't have them. Lol.  — AARON • TALK
    Pity. Might see if I can find them myself... A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 23:08, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't I and Boys.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 04:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.  — AARON • TALK 18:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per WP:SEEALSO, links that already appear in the article or any nav boxes needn't be also included in the See Also section. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs)
    I couldn't find anything about the B-sides, then ended up reading a massive interview about her album haha. OKay.  — AARON • TALK 23:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Nice, but Cheryl Cole discography is listed in the navbox. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 00:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Where?  — AARON • TALK
    Towards the top, underneath where it says "Cheryl Cole", to the left of where it says "Songs". A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 22:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Got no idea where you are talking about, as her discography is not linked anywhere. Besides, a See also section no longer exists.  — AARON • TALK 22:27, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right that it's essentially a moot point at the moment given that the SA section has gone, but, for future reference, I was referring to the link here. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 00:00, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
After I made some tiny fixes, I am confident to support this list of songs. — Tomíca(T2ME) 10:12, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.  — AARON • TALK 10:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 15:54, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • " lead single, and it is" -> "lead single; it is".
  • "including the second single " it isn't "including" as you list them all.
  • "ncluding the second single release title track, "Heaven" and "Boy Like You".[6]" confusing, as you go on to say a third single was released, I count three in this sentence already as the "title track" links to a third song.
  • "Cole released her second album called Messy Little Raindrops in October 2010.[10] Two singles were released from the album" consider merging these short sentences.
  • J.R. Rotem has no spaces.
    I know, I'm not sure what you want here?  — AARON • TALK
    Remove the space between the J. and the R. The Rambling Man (talk)
    Done.  — AARON • TALK 12:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "also released on 29 October 2010.[12]" also implies something else was released that date, but I can't see it?
  • Worth noting the third album had her credited as Cheryl, not Cheryl Cole.
  • In the Song col, "3 Words" sorts before the other alphabetically, in the Album col it appears to be the other way round.
    ?
    Sorting should be consistent. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:21, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:43, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "3 Words" sorts first in the Song column and 3 Words sorts first in the album column. Not sure what you want me to do?  — AARON • TALK 12:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that appears fixed. However, the initial order of the songs isn't quite correct, I think "Boys" is out of place because the first time you sort by song, it reorders, and it shouldn't. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:19, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I've got no idea.  — AARON • TALK 15:21, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    No idea about what? The initial order is incorrect so it needs to be fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:33, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no idea why it switches those two around. But I have forced them to sort correctly now.  — AARON • TALK 21:24, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done all apart from the two questioned.  — AARON • TALK 19:01, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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