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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Abby Wambach/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man via FACBot (talk) 23:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of international goals scored by Abby Wambach edit

List of international goals scored by Abby Wambach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Hmlarson (talk) 07:16, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... Wambach retired last year and the list is finalized. Hmlarson (talk) 07:16, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Fenix down and Harvardton
:Comments from Fenix down
  • Overall, I think the basic information is contained within the list to ensure it would pass FL standards without too much in the way of additions. However, I think it actually needs a lot of trimming as there is an awful lot of what I would call "guff" in there which really makes it difficult to read. I would recommend the following actions taken as there is a clear style for FL Lists of International Goals as demonstrated by all the current FLs such as Rooney, Henry, Healy, Keane, Klose and Charlton, which this list should attempt to mirror:
  • I don't think the summary is necessary, I'm not sure where the calculation methodologies have come from, but they seem a bit OR'y to me. also, much of what is there has nothing to do with the goals scored.
  • The following columns should be removed from the list of goals:
Goal - There is no need for this as there is no need to list each cap
Lineup - not relevant to a list of goals and not standard use
# - This is just confusing and is self evident from the tabulation
Min - Not standard. To be honest though this does seem relevant, so not sure why it is not in the current FL selection, so no real problem keeping this in
Assist / Pass - I could accept that this might be more relevant for an American player, but the notion of an "assist" is hotly debated in football, so if this were to remain, these would all need to be clearly referenced in the same way each goal is
  • I'm not sure how helpful the colour coding is. It's not used anywhere else and is quite confusing.
  • I would rework the order of columns so they match with the current FL standard
  • I would have a separate reference column, that way where one reference covers multiple elements in a row there is no need to have multiple superscripts
  • The "Goals Categorised by type of match display 1/2" is overkill. A more concise summary is simply to echo the breakdown section commonly used
  • The assists table should be removed entirely, this is a list of Wambach's goals, not other peoples' assists. It is also completely unreferenced.
  • The goals by country table is not standard. I'm not vehemently against it, but I'm not sure what it adds. All it seems to say is that she scored against a wide variety of teams which one would expect anyway. Is there anything particularly notable about this table? If not, I would remove it, if so, I would bring that out in sourced prose.
  • The assists sections should be removed entirely, this is a list of Wambach's goals not her assists for other people's goals.
Hope this helps. Fenix down (talk) 16:15, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harvardton - do you have any thoughts on any of these suggestions? Would you be willing to edit the article with some or all of these to be more in line with other featured lists? Thank you. Hmlarson (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2017 (UTC)List of international goals scored by Landon Donovan is also an example that was recently passed as FL. Hmlarson (talk) 00:01, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harvardton - perhaps the assist data could be moved to its own article so it is not lost. She ranks third in assists in the history of the team. Hmlarson (talk) 00:08, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User: Hmlarson, User:Fenix down - Comments from User: Harvardton
  • the list was created for completeness of information, since this is an encyclopedia. USSoccer provided these information on their website, unlike other federation which makes it hard to find information on their players
  • it is not intended to be a summary of goals scored, it is not just an article of Wambach for which there is a separate biographical article
  • each piece of information contained in the list have at least one citation
  • assist is part of the game just like goals, without the rest of the team Wambach will score no goal, nor will the other team members without the rest of the team. Assist should be enumerated as part of her achievement. There are some very good players who score few goals but provide assist to other players. Wambach is one player who scored more than anyone and has provided third number of assist, which makes her a great player.
  • the calculations of summary is similar to other articles, and I took the trouble to put it in the article. Those are information fitting of an encyclopedia
  • personally, I will not excise information from the article. However, it could use some editing to improve the appearance of the tables
  • However, I made my contribution to wikipedia and expect nothing in return and is mindful that articles can be edited by others. Frankly, List of international goals scored by Landon Donovan is quite bland. BTW, I had collected all the match reports on Donovan's goals but did not have the time to put the list together.
Harvardton (talk) 04:24, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hmlarson do you intend to address these comments? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:08, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to have a look at this today and present an alternative version closer to the current accepted FL style for this type of list. Fenix down (talk) 09:45, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fenix down what's happening? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think I am most of the way there, currently working through a large number of dead links as pre 2012 the us soccer links are gone. Am replacing those with archived links. Will also then need to wiki link to the competitions goals were scored in and then use the sources to identify the ground matches were played at and link properly to them. One more small table to add and a bit of copy editing on the prose and I think we can have another look. Have been busy recently but will be sending a few hours on it tomorrow. Fenix down (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Competitions wiki-linked. ✔ Perhaps the bot that fixes dead links + updates with archive.org links can assist with the archive urls. Hmlarson (talk) 00:27, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help. I'll have a look at the other bits today. Hopefully we can get this to FL soon. Fenix down (talk) 07:36, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
re: your edit citing overlinking, featured list List of international goals scored by Landon Donovan is overlinked applying the same rationale. Hmlarson (talk) 18:09, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmlarson Harvardton The Rambling Man I have addressed all my points above. Not saying it is perfect, but if you guys want to have a look and make any changes you think are useful, please do, then we should try again at FL status. HMLarson, happy for you to increase the amount of linking if you think necessary, but I removed duplicates per MOS:DUPLINK and WP:OLINK, where the duplicated links were place names or competition names and so repeating the linkage would not help readers increase their understanding of the list, so arguable Landon Donovan should not have them either, but I'm not precious about it as the list is pretty lengthy so a degree of repetition is perhaps ok. Fenix down (talk) 17:25, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The article is currently a FL candidate. It's status has not changed. Can you clarify what you meany by "try again"? Hmlarson (talk) 17:35, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, as nothing had happened in three weeks before Ibegan editing it and because it had only edited the archive page, I assumed it had been closed as a failure due to inactivity. Fenix down (talk) 23:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from AF4JM
Only 2 things I see that might could use a bit of improvement...
The reference tot he latest goal in a World Cup should be 120+2 since the game is only 120 minutes it couldn't have been at 122 minutes.
The location names outside the US don't indicate what country. Sure the ones that are linked it's simple enough to hover, but for the ones that aren't, if you don't know it, you've got to either copy-paste to the search box to find out. I know there's some standards to follow here, but this one seems a bit weird to me.

Either way, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be FL.--John, AF4JM (talk) 19:49, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look. I don't agree about 120+2. Every article I've seen about this notable goal says 122nd minute, including the reference included in the lead. Here's a video clip. I agree adding the countries (including USA) would be a useful addition to the list. Hmlarson (talk) 21:54, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Countries have been added. Hmlarson (talk) 01:44, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment this nomination appears to have stalled. I would recommend the nominator(s) work on gaining extra reviews or I'll close this in seven days time. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:15, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'll post a request. Will this deadline also be applied to the other FL candidates that have been open two months (namely List of international goals scored by Fernando Torres, List of Celtic F.C. managers, List of Alien characters, List of teams and cyclists in the 2014 Tour de France, List of Cardiff City F.C. players)? Hmlarson (talk) 00:54, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If no activity occurs on those nominations for three weeks, yes. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What else is needed The Rambling Man? Previous suggestions have been incorporated.Hmlarson (talk) 04:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well you need some community "support" for its promotion. There currently exists not one !vote either for or against this list's successful nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:10, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I give my support to this article certainly, nicely done. R96Skinner (talk) 22:31, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Great work with this list. - AffeL (talk) 15:55, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support
  • a retired professional soccer player who played as a forward - is there no way to avoid having "player" and "played" so close to each other?
  • In her 255 appearances for the senior national team, she scored 184 goals and currently holds the world record for international goals scored by both female and male soccer players. - I believe this should be split up. As someone who doesn't know much about soccer, I would appreciate more explanation here on the title, namely international (explaining the US's team in global soccer) and goals (I went ahead and linked it to here).
  • I've changed the wording slightly from "international goals" to "goals scored at the international level". Hmlarson (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure all numbers in the article have non-breaking spaces if they are in numeric form. 184 goals, for example.
  • Updated two instances in lead ("184 goals" and "14 goals"). Hmlarson (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • She completed her international career having scored a total of 14 goals in her 25 World Cup match appearances, placing her second on the all-time World Cup scoring list behind Marta - as a general prose note in the 2nd and 3rd paragraph, you could use more variety from "her" and "she" with a few "Wambach"es. (possibly the first time Wambaches has appeared digitally)
  • "diving headers" - in the event someone who didn't know soccer read this article, they might not know what this is, especially since there isn't a Wikipedia article on it. Could you explain it a bit more?
  • ""Wambach scored the equalizer in stoppage time helping the Americans to eventually progress to the World Cup final against Japan after defeating Brazil following a penalty shootout." - the sentence needs more structure (commas, prepositions), link "stoppage time". I got to the next sentence before realizing what the term meant, use a verb other than "helping", and put the World Cup bit in a separate sentence.
  • There is a bit of overlinking in the "International goals" section. *Why is "2004 CONCACAF Women's Pre-Olympic Tournament" red-linked once, while other places are inconsistently linked.
  • Modified. If you are looking at the table with the competitions column sorted, there will be duplicate links for goals scored on the same day. You can double-check this by looking when the column is not sorted. Some links for the Algarve Cup Group stage competitions, link to specific games within the Group Stage. Although they have Group Stage as the link text, they are actually different anchor (subsection) links. Hmlarson (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • What does the "Cap" section mean?
  • How is the "score" column sorted? Likewise, "result"? And what is the difference?
  • This description is included above table. Hmlarson (talk) 17:21, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's a very well-done list, and I believe my comments should be easy to address. Good work on an article related to in important soccer player! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you Hurricanehink for taking the time to review and provide feedback. I've updated the article and added comments above. Hmlarson (talk) 18:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the quick reply! I'm happy to support now. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:35, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support - although I did a fair amount in the list, this was restricted entirely to formatting to align the list with other top goalscorer featured lists. None of the hard work to actually collate the information was performed by me, so think it appropriate to throw my weight behind this if it helps get it over the line to FL status. Fenix down (talk) 14:55, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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