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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international cricket centuries by Sourav Ganguly/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 06:02, 31 July 2009 [1].

List of international cricket centuries by Sourav Ganguly edit

Nominator(s): Abeer.ag (talk) 06:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it covers the topic comprehensively. The content is not going to change since Sourav Ganguly has now retired. Abeer.ag (talk) 06:53, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*Oppose with a couple of quick comments.
    • Don't start with "This list..." - see some recent FLs for how to start our best lists off.
    • What does Pos. mean?
    • I recommend you add the total number of tests for each record, i.e. 1/5, 2/3 etc (meaning first Test of five, second test of three)...
    • Test 6 has an odd date...
    • ODI tests 6 and 7 out of initial order.
    • Images are huge - per WP:MOS#Images, should use just thumb and not force image size, except for the lead image which can be up to 300px.
    • Be consistent on what you link in the references. Sometimes you have a URL link to Cricinfo, sometimes not. I'd say don't. Also sometimes it's just Cricinfo, sometimes Cricinfo.com, sometimes just content-www.cricinfo.com, sometimes it's the publisher, sometimes it's the work.
    • Category:Cricket records and statistics is a supercategory of the others so remove it.
    • Sharjah links to a dab page.

The Rambling Man (talk) 11:43, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to address those concerns and made several updates. Thank you Abeer.ag (talk) 08:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC) More details:[reply]

    • Don't start with "This list..." - see some recent FLs for how to start our best lists off.
      • Fixed
    • What does Pos. mean?
      • Info added
    • I recommend you add the total number of tests for each record, i.e. 1/5, 2/3 etc (meaning first Test of five, second test of three)...
      • Done
    • Test 6 has an odd date...
      • Fixed
    • ODI tests 6 and 7 out of initial order.
      • Fixed
    • Images are huge - per WP:MOS#Images, should use just thumb and not force image size, except for the lead image which can be up to 300px.
      • Made images smaller; added other images; Alt text also added.
    • Be consistent on what you link in the references. Sometimes you have a URL link to Cricinfo, sometimes not. I'd say don't. Also sometimes it's just Cricinfo, sometimes Cricinfo.com, sometimes just content-www.cricinfo.com, sometimes it's the publisher, sometimes it's the work.
      • Done,
    • Category:Cricket records and statistics is a supercategory of the others so remove it.
      • done
    • Sharjah links to a dab page.
  • Comments
    • How could Test Century number 4 come in India's 4th innings? What kind of Test was that?!
      • Changed key, which was misleading: it was the 4th innings of the test match.
    • This is, perhaps, a little picky, but I would expect a not-out innings to rank above an out innings when the scores are the same, e.g. the Test 100's.
    • You may look into linking some of the cricket jargon so our non-cricketing readers can get their heads round what you're talking about, e.g. innings, Test cricket, batting order...
    • Consider making the reference dates the same format as that used in the table, i.e. mdy.

The Rambling Man (talk) 09:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

      • Is that really necessary? I used WP Cite & left the ref. dates as they are entitled on Cricinfo, and used a template in the table so that it could sort. Abeer.ag (talk) 14:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not necessary but I have a script which converts ISO dates to human-readable dates, I could run it if you like? The Rambling Man (talk) 08:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes please, if that would fix it. Thanks Abeer.ag (talk) 08:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • I've run the script on the accessdates in the references, they're now the same as the dates in the main table. Feel free to revert. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Why "is yet to" T20I ton in there. He's retired. We can just say that he never did score a T20I ton. Did he even play a T20 Int? We can't assume every retired player will make a comback YellowMonkey (cricket calendar poll!) paid editing=POV 03:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. I'm weakly supporting for now because I would like to see reviews by editors who are more familiar with cricket first. Now full support Dabomb87 (talk) 18:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comment Images need alternative text per criterion 5b. Also, image captions that are not complete sentences should not have periods at the end. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • No need to link Indian.
    • I disagree completely. India is his home country, his nationality, and where he has played and scored many of his centuries. I would say a hugely critical wikilink. SGGH ping! 13:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • See WP:OVERLINK on linking common geographical terms. Most people know what and where India is, and that broad article wouldn't be of much aid. However, I compromised and pipe linked "Indian cricketer" to Cricket in India. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:00, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He has scored 100 runs or more" You might explicitly explain that this is a "century".
  • "He is sixth in the list of leading test century makers for India." I thought "test" was capitalized? "in" should be "on".
  • "and he is only the third player ever - and the first since John Hampshire in 1969 - to score a century on debut at Lord's."-->and is the third player – the first since John Hampshire in 1969 – to score a century on debut at Lord's.
  • "fourteen different cricket grounds"
  • "nine of them in venues outside India. "-->of which nine were in venues outside India.
  • "He has been dismissed four times above the score of 90" What does it mean to be "dismissed"?
  • "ten different opponents"
  • Can the keys be moved to above the tables?
  • Some of the external links aren't directly relevant to this article, such as the player bio and "Cumulative Player Averages". Dabomb87 (talk) 17:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You for your comments. I've done almost everything. I delinked 2 external links, but left the player profile on, since it can be used as a link to the online statistics operator, Stasguru. There's also info. on a few centuries. Moving the keys doesn't look visually appealing. I couldn't find anything in WP:MOS about them. Perhaps I can add a link to them in the contents instead? Thanks again Abeer.ag (talk) 18:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the key, it's not prescribed in a style guideline, but most other featured lists do it that way, and it makes sense for the readers to familiarize themselves with the abbreviations, jargon, and symbols before looking at the table. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:36, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're right:done. Thanks again Abeer.ag (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Alt Text had been added for most images. Now added for title image as well. Abeer.ag (talk) 18:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how I missed HowStat, but I have questions about its reliability. "The HowSTAT story began in the early 1990's in Adelaide, South Australia, when a group of friends with a strong interest in both cricket and statistics needed a resource to help them settle some of those arguments and bets that arise when a group like this get together over a meal and a bottle of wine. " Doesn't indicate reliability to me. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update All of WP:ALT are in. Hometech (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The innings number for Test 100s is not uniform. The hundred at Lord's in Indian first innings, second innings of the match. It is listed as "2". If the same pattern is followed, the Hamilton hundred is in the fourth innings, not 2 as it is now. I haven't looked up scorecards but another one I can quickly see is the 2005 hundred against Zims, which should be same as the Lord's hundred but is now "1" Tintin 07:54, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment2 Looked up the scorecard of Lord's Test. The article has the date as June 21, 1996. The Test began on 20th, Ganguly's innings started on 21st and he completed his 100 on 22nd. Now if you look at the hundred at Calcutta against Pakistan, the match and Ganguly's innings began on November 30th and he completed his hundred on Dec 1. The article has the date as December 1. So there is obviously a mismatch in the yardstick use to determine the date. Tintin 08:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment3 Please fix the hundreds at Nagpur and Taunton. At the moment, the scorecards and SRs have got swapped. Taunton is listed as home. There may be more problems. Tintin 08:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed all the test innings, and the links. The test dates (date on which 100 was completed) were mostly fine, except the Lord's test. I've rechecked all of them though. Thank you for your comments, and all your other edits.Abeer.ag (talk) 13:54, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco
Lead
  • He made a century on his Test debut, scoring 131 against England in Lord's in 1996, the tenth Indian player to score a century on Test debut,[3] and is the third player – the first since John Hampshire in 1969 – to score a century on debut at Lord's.
  • "on test debut" is correct, I think. The phrase is commonly used in cricket.Abeer.ag (talk) 08:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm, I'll take your word for it.--Truco 503 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In his next Test match at Trent Bridge he made 136, becoming only the third batsman to make a century in each of his first two innings. -- Comm after Trent Bridge
  • His centuries have been scored in fourteen cricket grounds, of which eight were in venues outside of India.
  • The "of" is classic redundancy, and should not be added. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • He scored five centuries at home grounds and seventeen centuries at away or neutral venues. -- what is a neutral venue?
  • Later on, in the ODI key, it is mentioned that an away venue is the home of the opposition. Should I mention it here as well? Abeer.ag (talk) 08:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, the lead should explain terms like this.--Truco 503 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Key-Test
  • I recommend making this a table, it would be much presentable in that way.
  • denotes whether the venue was in at home (India) or away.
  • denotes that the match was lost by India. -- unlink India
Key-ODI
  • denotes whether the venue is home (India), away (opposition's home) or neutral. -- unlink India
  • I also recommend making this key a table.
Other
  • Why is the template for cricket records floating next to the references?
  • That's how it was done in a cricket list that I saw. Should it be elsewhere? Abeer.ag (talk) 08:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It should be under the references/external links. --Truco 503 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. 11:51, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
References
  • Per WP:ACCESS, not all browsers can handle 3 columns, use 2 or 1 instead.
  • The reflist template is using colwidth, which means it can expand or contract depending on browser capabilities. No problems here. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Every ref is from the same source, there needs to be at least one other sourced used for variety in which the information can be verified.--Truco 503 19:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dabs and external links check out fine.--Truco 503 19:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list now meets WP:WIAFL. Note: I recommend consulting with the respective project to discuss converting the Records template into a wide box (like the one at the bottom of the article) instead of one that floats to the right.--Truco 503 18:16, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues from Jpeeling (talk · contribs)
Comments from Jpeeling (talk · contribs)
  • The number of ODI centuries for Jayasuriya and Ponting mentioned in lead is incorrect.
  • Ganguly scored four ODI centuries at home not five as mentioned in lead.
  • Test century number 10 was not out.
  • SR on ODI century numbers on 12 and 21 are different to source.
  • Position on ODI century numbers 6, 7, 9, 12, 16 and 22 are different to source.
  • Innings (1s and 2s) on ODI century numbers 10, 19, 21 and 22 are different to source.
  • Ref 2 should be after punctuation to be consistent.
  • Rather than simply Sourav Ganguly Ref 10 should have a more detailed name like Ref 6. Ref 8 could also include a bit better description such as 'Statsguru - Sourav Ganguly - Test match nineties'.
  • The test in Ref 6 should be capitalised.
  • Ref 48's commas and spacing needs tidying.
  • Refs 5 and 11, and 7 and 12 are the same, use refname to avoid repetition.

--Jpeeling (talk) 10:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Done. I've made all the changes you recommend. Thank You Abeer.ag (talk) 11:34, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The strike rate on ODI number 21 is still different to source.
    • The final suggestion from me would be to change one of the section headings, either the first section to 'Test centuries' (my preference) or the second section to 'ODI cricket centuries' so there's a consistent format for both. --Jpeeling (talk) 20:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved all issues I could find, Support. --Jpeeling (talk) 21:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unrelated comment If anyone gets the chance, there are a couple cricket-related lists at WP:FLRC that need reviewing/fixing: List of One Day International cricket hat-tricks, List of Ashes series. Thanks, Dabomb87 (talk) 23:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17–14) 22:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "He scored centuries (100 or more runs) on 16 occasions in Test and in 22 One Day International (ODI) matches." Make it "Test cricket".
  • On two occasions in the lead, should West Indies be presented as "the West Indies"?
  • "He made a century on Test debut" Should it be "his Test debut"?
    • No, I think. "On debut" is a phrase commonly used in cricket. Abeer.ag (talk) 06:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link John Hampshire.
  • I assume a double century is a score of 200 or more? If so, it would be nice to have a parenthetical explanation, similar to that in the second sentence of the lead.
  • "fourteen cricket grounds, of which eight were in venues outside India." The struck words are redundant and can be safely chopped.
  • Comma after Sachin Tendulkar.
  • Three straight sentences start with "He". Try to introduce some variety to improve the prose.
  • The key should have draws explained, like wins and losses. This is critical for the first table, since all but four matches were draws.
  • Why is there no strike rate for the Tests? Do they just not keep records that detailed?
    • Strike rates are somewhat irrelevant is Test cricket. The rate of scoring is not that important since each team can bat for as long as they want. Abeer.ag (talk) 06:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes Howstat a reliable source? Giants2008 (17–14) 01:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Howstat is ued in several cricket articles, and is genereally regarded as reliable. Thank you for you comments. Abeer.ag (talk) 06:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Who regards them as reliable? I happened to look at our article on Howstat, and it states that the site "was started by a group of friends in Adelaide, South Australia". A site started by a random group of people doesn't qualify as a reliable source. Has it been described as reliable in media articles? Was it bought by a media corporation at one point? Giants2008 (17–14) 22:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • [2] makes it seem reliable. And we are just refrencing their statistical database, not any original content created by them as such. Abeer.ag (talk) 09:37, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Will [3] be considered reliable and sufficient if the links to Howstat are removed? Abeer.ag (talk) 14:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • There was a mention of Howstat here though: Wikipedia:Peer review/Donald Bradman/archive2, and [4] says : ". Howstat is an Australian registered business that specialises in the collection, analysis and presentation of meaningful statistics for the game of cricket. It is staffed and managed by a dedicated team of professionals with a wealth of knowledge in cricket, sports statistics and information technology. " Abeer.ag (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The PR says nothing about the site itself, and it would be better to have a third-party source discussing reliability, as opposed to the company itself. As I asked above, have newspapers or other media discussed Howstat, particularly its reliability? If not, does Cricinfo or Cricket Archive have pages you can use to cite these facts? Giants2008 (17–14) 22:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Removed links to Howstat. Cricket Web added instead. I can't reference Cricket Archive since it uses php. Abeer.ag (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Update Final issues have been fixed. Hometech (talk) 18:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Now that the questionable reference has been removed, this appears to meet standards, although I'd still like to see the alt text improved. Honestly, I don't think the Cricket Web reference is needed. Ganguly's number of centuries will be self-evident to anyone reading this list. Giants2008 (17–14) 00:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • The alt text for the graph reads, "A graph of a cricketer's performance in red and blue colours". That won't be of much help to blind users, whom alt text is meant to help. The graph in Doug Ring with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948 has alt text that states what is in the graph. That would be an improvement over the alt text used now. Giants2008 (17–14) 22:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is much more complicated graph. Describing it in detail will make the alt text way too long. I really don't know how to describe it, and keep it short. I'd be grateful for any suggestions. Abeer.ag (talk) 09:37, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{FLC}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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