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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Toradora! episodes/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 00:53, 11 November 2009 [1].

List of Toradora! episodes edit

Nominator(s): Extremepro (talk) 05:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because... I feel this article has met the criteria for featured list. Extremepro (talk) 05:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The summaries still need a major copyediting, especially the latter half where the summaries are twice as long or longer than the average length of the summaries from the earlier episodes.--十八 05:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tried to expand the length of the earlier summaries. Extremepro (talk) 11:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what I meant. The latter summaries are far too long.--十八 01:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree with Juhachi. For example, the final two episode summaries need to be trimmed by at least half. All other summaries must then keep to about that length. As soon as that's done, I can begin copyediting. Arsonal (talk) 07:20, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I thought recommended length for episode summaries were between 100-200 words with 150 words as a good average. Extremepro (talk) 08:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The length of episode summaries is related to the complexity of a story. Considering that Toradora! is a slice of life story, a summary of more than 4 to 5 lines (with a maximum of 6) in 1280 screen resolution should rarely occur. One good example is List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes. Regardless, episode 24 boasts an excessive 293 words. Arsonal (talk) 10:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reduced episode summary lengths as much as I could. Extremepro (talk) 23:37, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment According to the link checker, there is one dead link. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:35, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Are those the official translations for the theme songs? If not, you should use Nihongo3 template. Except the theme song Orange, I'm pretty sure they meant Orange. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 02:51, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I will copyedit the summaries shortly. In the meantime, there are some immediate issues. Arsonal (talk) 04:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is it possible to find a web citation for the theme songs?
  • Nope. The websites that do mention the theme songs are not RS. Extremepro (talk) 09:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be careful when using Google Translate or an online romanization tool as they do a poor job in romanizing Kanji names. I would encourage you to double check the Romaji of production credits. For example, the animation director for episode 1 is Masayoshi Tanaka (田中将賀, Tanaka Masayoshi), not Masahiro Tanaka Kaya, and the screenwriter is Mari Okada (岡田麿里, Okada Mari), not Rii Okada. Double check with Anime News Network's people encyclopedia on the Romaji.
  • Changed Masahiro Tanaka Kaya --> Masayoshi Tanaka and Rii Okada --> Mari Okada. Don't know of a good romanizer. Extremepro (talk) 09:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Might need to address this issue another way. As it stands, the list is giving incorrect information. I would not endorse the nomination in its current state. Arsonal (talk) 04:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • If all production credits come from one page, it is excessive to use a repeated inline citation for the mention of every single credited crew member. A better option would be to use the inline citation at the column header.
  • The section lead on DVD releases mentions that all DVDs contain three episodes, but the first volume in the table lists four episodes.
  • It is misleading to merge the "Discs" column in the DVD release table. It makes the reader think all volumes are compiled into a single disc. The same goes for the "Episodes" column.
  • Fixed. Extremepro (talk) 09:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Juhachi (talk · contribs) has reverted the table to its merged state saying it is "massively repetitive". I think we should set a standard for this list and other lists with DVD releases with repeated info. Extremepro (talk) 08:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is in no way misleading. Saying something like "it makes them think one thing" is just your opinion. We're all humans, we can obviously understand simple table formatting. Look over featured lists that contain repetitive information; the rows are merged to reduce redundancy, and make the information flow better.--十八 02:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I still disagree. It is not my opinion. Merging the cells removes a certain functionality from the table. Specifically, if one were to just look at the "Discs" and "Episodes" columns, both will add up to the total number of discs and episodes that have been produced. For example, look at List of Avatar: The Last Airbender episodes. If a box set is eventually released, the final row acts as a summation of all the previous rows. It then reads like an Excel document. Arsonal (talk) 05:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'm not sure which way (for want of a better word) is better so I'm requesting a third opinion. Extremepro (talk) 07:25, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • The Airbender example seems very specific, and still is skewed towards a table which separates the individual numbers for no good reason; readers do not need to be told 7 times in a row that a volume contains 3 episodes if once will suffice, especially since a concept of summing the episode numbers is not one of the points of the table. A halfway compromise I'd be willing to employ, however, is the addition of the word 'each' after the numerals.--十八 07:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • I'd be happy to follow the compromise. My question is: Should this be the standard for all DVD release list that contain repeated fields? Extremepro (talk) 10:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why does this table even exists and the information incorporated into the lead section like all other anime FL? Recent examples include Bleach season 10, One Piece season 5, and Oh My Goddess!. Given how terse the information is, it seems out of place to put it into its own section with a less than helpful table. —Farix (t | c) 12:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I see no point in even having the table at all. The information can be put in the lead in a concise prose form, same as with other featured lists. There really isn't much value in listing the full list of volumes and dates just to note the disc count. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree as well, though I don't like the idea of creating more unwritten "standards". I'd like to say it more gererally: Follow WP:LEAD and WP:LIST. If and only if adequately discussing the release history in the lead would imbalance the lead as a whole, create a release section. If the information presented in table form shows a lot of redundancy, then that suggests that the information it contains can easily be said in prose form. (A "Discs" column containing only "1"s for example translates nicely into the words "each containing one disc".) Goodraise 16:18, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Added "each" after the number in the merged columns per the compromise above. Extremepro (talk) 06:36, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from —Farix (t | c)
  • Some episode summaries appear to be too long for the general simplicity of these episodes. This isn't a complicated series after all, so episodes summaries should range between 100 to 150 words or so.
  • Episode summaries are inconsistent in length. There shouldn't be any summaries that are around 120 word in length and another that is over 190 words. This decreases the visual appeal of the list. The only exceptions it this are recap episodes.
  • The two comments above contradict each other. "episodes summaries should range between 100 to 150 words or so" and "there shouldn't be any summaries that are around 120 word in length and another that is over 190 words." Please clarify. Extremepro (talk) 22:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The director field is far too narrow causing some names to wrap. Director names should never wrap, especially when there is more than one episode director. It make it far more difficult to distinguish who from who.
  • DVD release information should be incorporated into the lead like in other anime episode FLs. There is simply too little information to place this into its own section with a table doesn't add anything.
  • Incorporated info into lead. Does this mean the whole DVD release section is to be deleted? Extremepro (talk) 22:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • If any episodes ranked into the top 10[2], it should be noted in the lead.
  • "The 25-episode Toradora! animated television series was based..." This is the tense is wrong. It should be in present tense instead of past tense.
  • The lead does not to mention the country of origin.
Side note here - Toradora! is an anime series and should be properly called such, not refereed to as if it were a American cartoon. Anime is a global enough word with a specific meaning that it should be used. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Used "The 25-episode Toradora! Japanese anime". Extremepro (talk) 22:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Added the word television because it is a TV series to distinguish it from OVA series.陣内Jinnai 16:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from The Rambling Man (sorry for tardiness)
  • "a high school student whose eyes make him look like an intimidating delinquent, and how his life changes after he meets a girl in his class named Taiga Aisaka who is known for her negative attitude towards nearly everyone but her close friends." I feel that a couple of these claims (intimidating delinquent, negative attitude) could use a ref.
  • Ref to either a conversation in the show itself or to a reliable source talking about the character. Arsonal (talk) 04:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ignore comment above. Juhachi reverted himself. Extremepro (talk) 08:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you're supposed to use the reference in the lead. The episode summary itself requires no reference. Arsonal (talk) 08:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "at later dates" - later than the end date of that on TV Tokyo? Just checking as it's a little ambiguous now.
  • "extra short," - I think it's worth linking "short"
  • "Limited editions of all eight compilations, each of which contains a bonus CD, were also released" perhaps it's just me but I feel there's a tense issue here? If just me then fine...
  • I think its just you. Might need another person to look over since I'm not great at grammar. Extremepro (talk) 00:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest changing to "Limited editions of all eight compilations, each containing a bonus CD, were also released". Arsonal (talk) 04:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a short girl" reads odd. Diminutive?
  • " them out the window" - out of...
  • " encouraging her to try again." try again what? try falling down or try making cookies?
  • "walk pass a" past.
  • "and they both observe" "they both" is redundant.
  • "to become simultaneously happy and depressed." - perhaps just "to become both happy and ..."
  • "becomes tensed" - just "tense" I should think.
  • "up liking him back." - no need for "back"
  • "Taiga later recounts this to Ryūji, over which she becomes angry about telling embarrassing things to him. " - not great. "Taiga later recounts this to Ryūji; she becomes angry about the embarrassing things she is telling him"? My version is not good but it's better, I think!
  • Consider "Taiga later recounts this to Ryūji but becomes angry about the embarrassing things she is telling him".
  • "Taiga quickly comes to dislike Ami, and even slaps her in the restaurant. She transfers into Ryūji and Taiga's class, quickly becoming ..." - quickly used twice (ahem) quickly - reword a bit to improve prose.
  • "but is made to impersonate people in strange situations" - this is odd and, at least to me, indecipherable.
  • Suggest a rewrite of the sentence to "Ami takes refuge in Taiga's apartment in order to avoid a stalker but is forced to impersonate people in strange situations". I'm not sure if "forced" would be the correct word to use since I'm not familiar with the show. Arsonal (talk) 04:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "come over to her villa over summer break" too many "over"s here.
  • "for a brief moment" briefly?
  • "Quickly things get out of hand as..." - The situation quickly gets out of hand...
  • cosplay - what's this? Link text.
  • "spaces out" fine colloquially but not great encyclopaedically.
  • The DVDs came with a "bonus CD"? What was on them?
  • I have no idea. But I assume it's extras. Extremepro (talk) 00:19, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Have the reviewers been asked to revisit? Dabomb87 (talk) 14:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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