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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Major League Baseball leaders in RBI in one inning/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 23:49, 27 October 2009 [1].

List of Major League Baseball leaders in RBI in one inning edit

Nominator(s): Alansohn (talk) 16:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because it provides a detailed list of baseball players who have accomplished the feat of setting the Major League Baseball record for most runs batted in during a single inning. The American League record was set on October 4t by Alex Rodriguez of the Yankees. In addition to the raw date in the table, there is ample text provided to offer context on how the records were set. This list corresponds favorably to other featured lists of baseball topics. I will be happy to further improve this list with additional material during the nomination and will promptly address any issues raised here. Alansohn (talk) 16:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Staxringold
  • You need some sources for the earlier 6 RBI innings, namely the final results of those games and the opponents. Retrosheet can help with that. The detailed game logs don't go that far back, but you can at least find the results.
  • Done Retrosheet did not have boxscores for those seasons, but I have been able to get game details from The New York Times for all of the "missing" games. Alansohn (talk) 16:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The dates need to use {{Dts}} so they sort properly.
  • Done This has been added to all dates. Alansohn (talk) 16:00, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead needs some expansion, at least some list factoids, like if any of the teams lost the game (none of those you have listed have, but maybe the remaining 3), which inning is the most common, which was the earliest, etc, etc.
  • Done A paragraph has been added to the lead section with some "factoids", as requested. Alansohn (talk) 20:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "NOTE" paranthetical isn't really needed or professional looking.
  • Alt text.
  • Done I've looked at WP:ALT, but any additional tips and examples would be appreciated. Juliancolton reworked the text I had added, which addresses the issue. Now I know how to handle this in future articles. Alansohn (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from -- SRE.K.A.L.24[c]

  • The "Record holders" section only talks about Tatis and Rodriguez's games. Should talk about more, or if possible, all the games.
    • Done I've added details for the individuals who had set the MLB and AL records at 6, but I'm not sure that adding details of all games is necessary to back up the list. Alansohn (talk) 12:19, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The added information you inserted into the section has been written like it was only for readers who are fond of baseball. What's a doubleheader? What's a pennant? What's a 3 for 5? You should also mention the dates on which the players knocked the 6 RBIs on their respective paragraphs. More can be added, like how Juan Rivera's 6 RBIs in one inning is the only one in Canada, and how Griffith Stadium is the only park with three 6 RBIs by a player in one inning. -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 02:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from K.Annoyomous
  • "..., breaking a tie with Jimmie Foxx and Manny Ramirez." - After checking MLB.com, Ramirez didn't have his 30/100 seasons consecutively. Should clarify sentence.
    • Done - Foxx had 12 consecutive, while Ramirez's were non-consecutive. This has been clarified. Alansohn (talk) 16:00, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Were any of the games extra innings?
    • Done No extra inning games, but there were some games in doubleheaders and this has been clarified. Alansohn (talk) 16:00, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you shorten Reference to Ref., you can put in some two three images with 125 pixels, or you could add a "Selected statistics" column in, like in the article League Championship Series Most Valuable Player Award, into the "Players with six or more RBI in one inning" section.
    • Reply Given that the six-plus runs per inning is a rather specific and brief accomplishment, limited to 1/1500th of a season, overall stats or awards would be of little relevance and would probably add little here. Alansohn (talk) 20:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • What I meant was you can add in the Selected statistics, and add for example how many hits, home runs, etc., but cross that out. How about adding more images? -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 02:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Done More images have been added of the first to set the record at six and the last AL player to tie it at 6. Alansohn (talk) 21:57, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

-- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 06:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Oppose from KV5
  • I'm not really a fan of the first sentence; the bold looks bulky and forced. Honestly, the second paragraph may be a better way to open this list. Since 1900, there have been 17 different players who have batted in six [or more] runs in a single inning. strikes me as a good opening, followed by an explanation of what an RBI actually is, such as A batter is credited with a run batted in (RBI) when....
Drive-by comment. It would probably also be useful to briefly explain why getting more than 4 (.e. from a grand slam) in a single inning is so rare. Boissière (talk) 18:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Major League Baseball (MLB) leaders in runs batted in (RBI) in one inning are topped by record holder Fernando Tatís, then with the St. Louis Cardinals, who set the MLB record with eight RBI in a 1999 game in which he hit two grand slams in the third inning of a game against the Los Angeles Dodgers." - this sentence is humongous.
  • "All of the teams with a player with six or more RBI in an inning have won the game, usually in a blowout, though two of the games ended up with a two-run margin of victory: The Montreal Expos defeating the Chicago Cubs 17–15 in 1985 behind Andre Dawson, and the Boston Red Sox by a score of 19–17 over the Texas Rangers with David Ortiz providing six RBI in the first inning." - another huge run-on sentence. Two corrections besides the length:
  • Don't capitalize "the" after the colon
  • The comma after Andre Dawson should be a semicolon, since the list is subservient to that colon
  • Yankees are linked twice in the lead.
  • After the first mention of a team, you need only refer to them by the team name, rather than the full franchise designation (e.g., Red Sox instead of "Boston Red Sox" after the first mention). This, of course, only applies within the prose.
  • "The Washington Senators / Minnesota Twins franchise" - either link both teams together or (preferred) just keep it to The Minnesota Twins franchise. Readers who click through to that article will easily see that the Senators and Twins are the same team.
  • "knocking in" RBI is very WP:JARGONy, and it's everywhere.
  • "Dodger starting pitcher Chan Ho Park entered the game's third inning with a 2–0 lead, but would implode in that frame, giving up a total of 11 runs (six of them earned) on six hits, an error and 48 pitches in the inning before being relieved by Carlos Pérez who was able to get the third out of the inning on three pitches." - run-on sentence
  • "Three more runs scored before Tatís would again come to the plate" - tense; everything should be past.
  • What is a full count? Link, please.
  • "to give Tatís the MLB record for most RBI in an inning and becoming the only MLB player to have hit two grand slams in a single inning." - two different tenses again
  • "leaving him likely to come up short" - speculation, and it didn't happen. Re-word.
  • "13th consecutive season of 30 home runs and 100 RBI" - "of" → with
  • "deep right center" - center what?
  • Totals like "5 for 6", etc., should use hyphens, e.g. 5-for-6
  • "the Philadelphia Athletics scored a 16–5 win" - you don't score a win, you can record one, notch one, earn one...
  • Section header: "List of players with six or more RBI in one inning" duplicates the title. "List of players" would probably be sufficient.
  • "Though the current official designation of a Run Batted In was not officially set until 1920" - don't capitalize "Run Batted In".
  • Column header: "Final Score" → Final score
  • If every team has won the game in which a player has collected 6 or more RBI, there's no need to note that in the "Final score" column.
  • Suggest condensing the "Reference" column to "Ref"; table is already crowded on 1024x768 browsers as is.
  • Baseball Reference isn't a publisher. Sports Reference LLC is a publisher, and Baseball-Reference is a work.

Hope these comments help. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:51, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisTheDude (talk · contribs)
  • Why is the same image in the article twice?
  • I know little to nothing about baseball and was left completed baffled by this article as it does not give any indication of what a "run batted in" is. Considering that I recently saw a FLC for a football (soccer)-related subject where one reviewer insisted that text be put in explaining what a goal is, I think this article should also have to explain what seems to be quite an esoteric stat -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to clarify for your reference, Chris: the RBI is not an esoteric statistic at all; it's one of the "big 3" statistics used to judge batters in reference to the triple crown, which is one of the most respected achievements in the game. That being said, I fully agree with you that it needs to include an explanation of the statistic itself. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 11:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to clarify my comment, I didn't mean to imply that the RBI was a really obscure and little-known aspect of baseball or anything like that. The point I was trying to make (possibly very badly) was that probably 90% of people on the planet know what "scoring a goal" in football/soccer refers to, yet someone still felt that it had to be explained in a footy-related list, whereas probably very few people other than baseball aficionados would know what a RBI is, which would suggest it would be even more likely to need explanation. Hope that makes sense...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course; we're both trying to make the same point in different ways. I got it. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done Never assume, and I did. I've added a definition for RBI in the lead paragraph and explained why six or more runs would be an unusual feat for a single inning. Alansohn (talk) 04:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The licensing of the images looks fine, but two of them still need alt text. Goodraise 18:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Goodraise (talk · contribs)

  • The lead needs to be adjusted to comply with WP:BOLDTITLE.
  • The references need to be changed to comply with WP:ALLCAPS.

Goodraise 01:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – Per KV5's numerous unresolved comments above, which show that the list has substantial problems involving run-on sentences, jargon, and overuse of passive voice in the prose. As of now, it clearly fails Criterion 1 of the featured list criteria. If these aren't fixed soon, this FLC should be archived. Giants2008 (17–14) 16:28, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As per Giants2008's comments, and my unresolved comments, I also oppose the promotion of this list in its current form. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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