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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of James Bond novels and stories/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:14, 29 January 2012 [1].

List of James Bond novels and stories edit

List of James Bond novels and stories (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): SchroCat (^ • @) 12:01, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that it meets the FL criteria; it acts not just as a stand alone source of information in its own right, but also as the 'header article' for the canon of Ian Fleming's James Bond books. SchroCat (^ • @) 12:01, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - good, big work!
  • Update the fair use licensing on the JB image to add "List of" in front of JB novels and stories.
  • " who write two novelizations" wrote (and not mad keen on all the z's, being a BritEng article, but not gonna make a fuss! Although later you use "organisation", so I'd at least be internally consistent with your s's and z's...)
  • Neither am I, but according to the OED the correct word is "novelization": the OED don't even list the alternative spelling of "novelisation". - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was asked to continue " by whom?
  • "followed, in 2011, " not sure those commas are really needed.
  • In the infobox, why is Mother, Father, Aunt, Uncle capitalised while son isn't? Also not sure if "invalid" isn't a little ambiguous...
  • Done (I've changed it to "null", which is a more correct term - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Upon accepting the job, Fleming requested that he be allowed three months holiday per year.[1] Publishers Jonathan Cape were initially reluctant to publish the book, ..." a bit of a non-sequitur for me....
  • You may wish to link s and d (shillings and pence) for those unfamiliar with pre-decimal British currency.
  • You say Bond's an "intelligence officer" in the prose, but a "00 agent" (linked) in the infobox. I guess "00 agent" is an intelligence officer, but you may wish to be consistent.
  • I've clarified the distinction in the text – 00 Agent being a sub-set of intelligence officer. - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "World War II" or "Second World War", be consistent.
  • Felix Leiter is overlinked (in the second novel).
  • fortune-telling is hyphenated.
  • Is it "Mr. Big" or "Mr Big"?
  • "Bond is then nearly killed by Colonel Rosa Klebb, one of the SMERSH planners. "... is that how it ends?
  • "SMERSH target Bond to be killed and caught in a compromising situation..." doesn't appear to be written like the other summaries...
  • When you refer to Dr No a second time, you just say "No", but you don't with "Mr Big". Any reason?
  • Big is a nickname (actually an anagram of his real name, Buonapart Ignace Gallia) whilst No is his real name - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bond is told a story " so Bond isn't actually in A Quantum of Solace?
  • Only at the beginning and end whilst his host tells the story—see the plot summary I did for the book version.
  • "have hijacked and seized its two " hijacked what?
  • Is "The Spy Who Loved Me" really that boring? Just a question, the summary of it would indicate it could have been done in a couple of pages!
  • Pretty much! There's a lot of back-story involved and Bond doesn't enter the story until the final third. - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bond's continues to search " grammar fail.
  • "Thorough contact " typo.
  • "and the pair, but Blofeld kills " missing word, probably important...
  • Who's Bunt?
  • " leaves him with amnesia and Bond lives " just "and he lives" is fine.
  • You link CIA and MI6, so you ought to link KGB, the first time, not the second.
  • " CBS television " shouldn't that be "the CBS television network"?
  • "Climax!.[26]" avoid that double full stop.
  • Dates for publication of "For Your Eyes Only" and "Risico"? Presumably the same as "From a View to a Kill" so just repeat.
  • "The fictional chronology" -> "Fictional chronology" per WP:HEAD.

That gets me to the post-Fleming section, so I'll stop here and let you catch up. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for taking the time on that. I think I've covered all the points you raised, but please let me know if I've missed any or misunderstood your comments. Cheers - SchroCat (^ • @) 13:09, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments part deux (and yes, am satisfied the first tranche have been dealt with satisfactorily!)

  • One I missed from before, "Ian Fleming, creator of James Bond." doesn't need a full stop.
  • I think we prefer to use unspaced en-dashes not em-dashes for year ranges, i.e. 1968–1979 instead of 1968—1979.
  • The third of the three novels in this section has a different colour border around it, are you seeing that?
  • I am: there are three colours which underline the bottom of the boxes: a darker blue for the novels, a lighter blue for the short stories and the orange colour for the novelizations. Two of these are part of the template. - SchroCat (^ • @) 16:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure you really need to link "outer space", pretty common term for regular English speakers/readers.
  • Was it really a Space Shuttle? If so, capitalise it, if not, probably needs a more generic link. Our article says the first real Shuttle flight wasn't until 1981, this novelization was two years earlier... just wondering.
  • Yes, it was a SS – the programme had been around since the 1960s, even though the first flight wasn't until 1981.
  • Possibly worth linking "Maggie Thatcher" for those of a more modern generation...
  • Done, although thanks for making me feel so old! ;) - SchroCat (^ • @) 16:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1996, Gardner retired from writing James Bond books due to ill health.[53]" and "Ill-health forced Gardner to retire from writing the Bond novels in 1996.[55]" - don't need 'em both.
  • "Bond goes undercover to be sacked from MI6" isn't it the other way round, "he is "sacked" from MI6 to go undercover"?
  • Link Moneypenny (notable supporting part).
  • "The murder of two women connected to a Cold War mission are brutally murdered" que?
  • "multiple terrorist bombings " no need to repeat "terrorist" here.
  • "Bond established the " keep tense consistent so "establishes"
  • "the Brotherhood of Anarchy " -> The...
  • Same coloured border thing above Broken Claw...
  • No need to link Russia.
  • Death is Forever, no need to relink CIA.
  • Could link Fourth Reich.
  • "American author Raymond Benson became the author " author author is a little tedious.
  • Who's Jeremy Black and why should I care what he has to say?
  • "Benson followed Gardner's pattern of setting Bond in the contemporary timeframe of the 1990s[72] and, according to Jeremy Black, had more echoes of Fleming's style than John Gardner,[73] he also changed Bond's gun back to the Walther PPK,[74] put him behind the wheel of a Jaguar XK8[75] and made him swear more,[76] which led Black to note that there was an increased level of crudity lacking in either Fleming or Gardner.[73] " is one helluva large sentence.
  • "However, the Peterborough Evening Telegraph stated ..." is that the best source you've got (no offence Peterborough!)?
  • Shouldn't Kirkus Reviews be in italics?
  • "Bond established that " same comment as before...
  • Colour thing again, above "The Facts of Death[81]"
  • "female TV news " television
  • Electra - do you mean Elektra?
  • "preventing the assassination" +s.
  • "a post 9/11" hyphenate and link
  • "a cancer drug" a drug to cure cancer?
  • Do you need a {{main}} template for Young Bond when you link the article straight away. Also, shouldn't" Young Bond be italicised every time?
  • " the two children are kidnapped" which two children?
  • "and is eventually forced to flee " who is, Bond or the maid?
  • Is the graphic novel Silverfin or SilverFin?
  • Ref 107 doesn't mention "A Hard Man to Kill", it links to "Danger Society"...
  • The British Library is just called British Library.
  • Ref 45, is James Leasor the name of the article? The author? If the name, who wrote it?
  • I've clarified the name of the article (it's Leasor's obituary) As with all Times Obituaries at the time, the author's names are not disclosed. - SchroCat (^ • @) 16:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously once you've tidied up the repeated ill-health comment, refs 53 and 55 will be resolved. Keep 55.
  • Ref 106, why is "(Graphic Novel)" in parentheses?

The Rambling Man (talk) 14:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Again, thanks very much indeed for doing this and if I've missed anything, please let me know. Cheers - SchroCat (^ • @) 16:18, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Another great SchroCat work. Let's hope it gets promoted to turn this into viable topic! igordebraga ≠ 05:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 18:33, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Can we get an image expert to verify that the fair-use rationale for the lead image is okay? I remember what happened at the last Bond-related FLC and would like to avoid such a long debate if possible.
  • I've asked Quadell, who does huge anmounts of good work at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions, to comment on this one. - SchroCat (^ • @) 02:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a very difficult case, and different people who each fully understand our policy might have conflicting opinions on whether this fulfills our non-free criteria or not. The relevant question is, is seeing the author's vision of James Bond necessary for fully understand an article on the list of James Bond fiction? If what unites "James Bond novels and stories" is that they all feature and are based on this one figure, then I could see it passing NFCC#8. However, if what unites them is that they are all books in a series, and it would be conceivable to have a "James Bond story" about Moneypenny and Q without Bond in it, then it would not pass NFCC#8. I don't know. Personally, I would feel more comfortable with a photograph of a stack or collection of James Bond novels which minimally reproduces copyrighted content (c.f. File:Videogameretaildisplay.jpg), which I feel would fully illustrate the topic, but I'm not an expert on James Bond, and I concede that this photo is not a clear violation. – Quadell (talk) 14:02, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll replace this shortly - probably later today: I'm on the hunt for a licence free image that fits the above criteria, but if I can't find one of those, then I'll take a photo of the spines of the Pan paperback versions I have - bot copyrightable as the print on the spine is too common. - SchroCat (^ • @) 15:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The current image is free and correctly tagged. (Typefaces are ineligible for copyright in the U.S., and there is nothing else copyrightable in the book spines.) There are no image concerns in this article. – Quadell (talk) 20:15, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The comma after James Bond in the opening doesn't add anything positive to the sentence.
  • In the second paragraph, consider flipping "while" for "whilst"; that's usually preferred among the featured content processes' prose experts.
  • Also consider combining the third and fourth paragraphs, since the fourth paragraph is stubby and appears to be a logical fit with the previous one.
  • Ian Fleming: Try not to start a sentence with a number like in "4,728 copies of Casino Royale...".
  • I may not be an image expert, but I doubt that two non-free images in a list can be found to pass muster. The second image perhaps could pass the criteria for Ian Fleming's article, but not for a list like this.
  • I've asked Quadell to comment on this one too. - SchroCat (^ • @) 02:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even though it is appropriate to have a section on Ian Fleming, I have to say that I don't think a photo is needed to fully understand the article. (I'm sorry to say this, since the photo is useful in the article, but not necessary to understand the topic, and that sets the bar rather high.) – Quadell (talk) 14:02, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sadly removed! I've added a copy of Fleming's signature in its plance and a number of free images of some of the authors elsewhere: if you think this is overkill then please let me know and I'll get rid of them. - SchroCat (^ • @) 14:30, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The short stories: Missing word in "Fleming adapted four of television plots..."?
  • "When the paperbacks edition of the book was published". "paperbacks" → "paperback".
  • In all of the Post-Fleming section headings, en dashes are needed for the year ranges.
  • 1979-1996: "the Bond series was revived with new novels by John Gardner, although initially almost turned the series down." Missing "he" before "initially".
  • License Renewed: "Murik hired Franco to hijack six nuclear power stations in order to start a meltdown, but are prevented from doing so...". Feels like it's missing "they" before "are".
  • Never Dream of Dying: "goesafter" needs to be two words.
  • The Man with the Red Tattoo: "to pursue terrorist Goro Yoshida. Yoshida...". Try to avoid this repetition from one sentence to another.
  • There's a similar issue regarding Moon in the Die Another Die novel summary after the above one.
  • Double or Die: "manages to recue him." Typo hiding in there.
  • Hurricane Gold: "Bond gives chases and is captured". "chases" → "chase"?

Giants2008 (Talk) 01:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Two of the ones above (the non-struck ones) were identical to what they were before the changes. Is it possible that the edits were just previewed and didn't go through? Giants2008 (Talk) 18:33, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weird! All (re-)done now! - SchroCat (^ • @) 19:00, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 12:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
  • The short stories and fictional chronology tables need to comply with WP:ACCESS see MOS:DTT for more info other than that the list looks fine. NapHit (talk) 14:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
you need to add rowscopes, i've don the first table for you, so if you're unsure you can use that as a guide. NapHit (talk) 21:19, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apols - missed that bit! Hopefully now done properly. - SchroCat (^ • @) 08:42, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support NapHit (talk) 12:03, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 10:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Looks very good, I just have a few thoughts –
  • Personally, I question whether that infobox is really needed - it details information about James Bond as a character, so it would make sense to use it at the James Bond (character) article, but it seems a bit superfluous in an article about a series of books.
  • In the fourth sentence of the second paragraph, you use "Gardner" twice.
  • "Whilst", "Upon" and "due to" seem a bit overly formal to me - I'd suggest using "while", "on" and "because of" instead.
  • I've not changed these as I don't think that they are formal, at least not in British English, which is the varient used in this article (for example, a search of the Guardian website shows the word "whilst" being used an average of five times a day—and about ten times a day on the BBC website) If it was an MOS thing then it may be different (at least different enough for me to argue against it on a talk page) but the "overly formal" is just an opinion on a user page, yes?
  • Per WP:HEADER, I think "The short stories" header should just be "Short stories". Similarly, I'd rather not see the "List of" at the beginning of the first level 3 header.
  • "publishers of the James Bond novels, (since renamed Ian Fleming Publications)" - I'd put that comma after the closing parenthesis.
  • "The first Young Bond novel, SilverFin" - "novel" shouldn't be italicised.
  • "Young Bond" in the Charlie Higson photo caption is not italicised.

Looks good overall, Nice job! A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 01:19, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Meets the FL criteria by my reckoning. One think I would say is that I think, per MOS:ELLIPSIS, the ellipses in the Charlie Higson quote need to be spaced, i.e. "the other books&nbsp;... for now my". Great work! A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 10:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's great - many thanks indeed for pointing these out. I've done the last ellipsis point too. Thanks very much! - SchroCat (^ • @) 11:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Ref 9 doesn't point to any citation--♫GoP♫TCN 17:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for pointing it out - it does now! Cheers - SchroCat (^ • @) 17:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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