Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of FC Barcelona players/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Mm40 12:57, 8 March 2010 [1].

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List of FC Barcelona players

List of FC Barcelona players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): Sandman888 (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

• Featured list candidates/List of FC Barcelona players/archive1
• Featured list candidates/List of FC Barcelona players/archive2

I am nominating this for featured list: it was already a decent list, and borrowing from List of Arsenal players I've applied that layout to the Barcelona article. As of now, I don't see any substantial differences between the two, and it meets the FL criteria. Cheers! Sandman888 (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Comment

• The lead is too short
  • Longer
• Sorting for name column doesn't work properly; you will need to use {{sortname}}
  • Done
• Country names should accompany the flags; not everyone recognize them
  • Done
• Please link all the positions
  • Done
• Boldface should not be used as an indicator per WP:BOLDFACE
  • Disagree. That seems to be adressed at text, not lists. I don't see why italics wd be better.
    • Well, this still needs to be done to satisfy the WP:MOS, which applies to all articles. If you dislike italics, you can use other indicators, such as symbols.—
      • Done, italics it is.

Chris!_c/t 23:41, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

• Empty cells need emdashes
  • emdashes really needed? It doesn't look better that way.
• This list is poorly referenced. The notes are not sourced
  • More notes

—Chris!_c/t 03:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:06, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

;Comments "For a list of all Barcelona players, see Category:FC Barcelona footballers" - poor wording, as the category does not list ALL Barcelona players Done First paragraph is far too short at only two sentences, and is alo unreferenced Done "FC Barcelona is one of only three clubs never to have been relegated from La Liga" - not referenced ....nor is the rest of that sentence Done No reason for capital S on senior in the key Done Why is only Puyol's surname shown in the image caption? Also there's no need for a comma after his name Done Some flags still do not have country names by them Done Jesus Antonio de la Cruz sorts under A, that doesn't seem right to me Done Notes are not referenced Done "Barcelona's record goalscorer in Spanish Cup." - should be "the Spanish Cup" Done "Segarra won two First Division titles, three spanish cup" - should be "three Spanish Cups" Done "Ramallets is Barcelona's record of Zamora's trophies." - what does this mean? who/what is Zamora? Done "Luis Suarez is the first spanish and Barcelona's player to win the ballon d'or." - Spanish should have a capital S, Ballon d'Or should also have capitals and you need to either wikilink it or explain what it is, not everyone will know Done "José Vicente Sánchez won one First Division titles" - no need for the s on the end of titles if it was just one, this occurs in several other notes too Done "Eto'o score the fastest hat-trick in Barcelona's history." - should be "Eto'o scored....." Done Images do not have alt text Every image should have alt text, unless the image is purely decorative and does nothing when you click it. I see the images as purely decorative. That is not correct, the images are not "purely decorative" and definitely need alt text Alt text added Please read WP:ALT to see the sort of thing that should be included and not included in alt text. Putting "Carlos Puyol playing for Barcelona" will not help a visually impaired person imagine what the image looks like..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Visually helpful alt text added. That's spot on, and the one about Romario definitely made me chuckle :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:40, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Hope this helps -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Thanks a bunch for comments! I only need a script that make all of the quotation marks into quotation marks, so countries will be left sorted. Sandman888 (talk) 09:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC) All done now! Sandman888 (talk) 12:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose Lead is too short and concentrates on Barcelona (the club) rather the players, and this list is about the players. You have one sentence about the players in the lead, not enough. Changed lead If the original sort order is "by career" then something's not quite right - try sorting by career and you'll see the initial list isn't in the right order. Done! Players who didn't captain the club - the en-dash should sort as a zero so that in descending order you get the most recent captain first. Help on how to appreciated! Put {{hs|0}} before each dash -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC) Done (doesn't seem to change anything) Are "current players" referenced anywhere? Yes, at template in bottom, and in key. Position - this is a sortable table so link every instance of thing that are linkable. Done. Since when was Romario "slightly obese", even in that photo? Done. Notes need to be referenced. Done References should be placed after punctuation where possible. Done "(inflation adjusted)." prove it. Done You obviously don't need FC Barcelona as a see also. Done Bare URLs in references, no thanks, please use an appropriate template. Done Presumably the bullet point list of refs are specific despite being listed with the general refs? Done The Rambling Man (talk) 21:21, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I'll see what the rest of the community come up with before I re-review the whole list. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Further comments

• There are wikilinks to Cesar Rodriguez and Luis Suarez, which are disambiguation pages, these need to be fixed to point to the correct article -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Done
• No need to Wikilink the players' names again in the notes. Also, some of the notes use the player's full name but some just their surname, please be consistent and either use full names for all of them or just surnames for all of them
  • Surnames done.
  • I see no harm in incl. wikilinks once more, you might look up the Puyol note and then want to go to his mainpage after checking out the note.
• Note 18 needs the author, publisher, and page number adding -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:03, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Done - Author, publisher incl. I thought the DOI-bot cd do this stuff, but no.

Drive by comment - Like the Rambling man, I'll see how other reviewers receive this list before deciding whether to do a full review. This FLC may give you a few other ideas for improvement. The two things that struck me straight away were duplicate references (for instance the "Individual records" and "Mythical Players - Joan Gamper"), and I can't see what is referencing non legendary, non-current players. WFCforLife (talk) 03:40, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

• • References done

Oppose as innacurate. The referencing for these players and the statistics do not tally at all. I did a sample of three players who fall into the bracket of non legendary and non current:

• Abelardo Fernández- On this list he is marked as having played from 1994 until 2002, with 256 appearances and 17 goals. The reference says that he only played until 1999, made 196 appearances and scored 15 goals.

• Jon Andoni Goikoetxea- It took a little while to find him. Once I did, it was very much opposite problems to those I found with Fernández. On this list he played from 1988 until 1994, making 173 appearances and scoring 10 goals. In the source his career only started in 1990, yet he played 237 games and scored 15 goals. Quite an achievement in four seasons.

• Eulogio Martínez- Wikipedia: 162 apps, 111 goals. The source: 254 apps, 174 goals. While trying to find out whether this guy was a legend, I stumbled across evidence that this does not tally with the legends reference either.

• Luis Enrique- Here: 300 apps, 109 goals. Legends site: 354 games 123 goals.

Given the scale of the discrepancies, there is no way that I can trust this information. And given that some stats are higher and others lower than the sources, I can't put it down to differing information, such as a source only recording league appearances. I checked a total of five players, so I suspect that these issues are the tip of the iceburg. WFCforLife (talk) 21:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

• • Done. List does no longer incl. non-current, non-legends as no reliable information can be found.
    • Hang on, you're now saying that the list includes all current players plus "official legends"? Apart from the fact that that's not how any other featured "list of XXXXX F.C. players" works, it doesn't even seem to be correct - where are Chygrynskiy, Maxwell and Milito.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:00, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
      • As far as I can tell there's no official policy on how these lists works, and traditions does not make for the best list. The list is made to suit the quality of available sources. I didn't include the rest of the squad until I had some feedback on whether to operate on such a point as wasted time is time wasted. Sandman888 (talk) 09:27, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose on scope and sourcing.

• The name "List of FC Barcelona players" implies a list of all Barcelona players, though longstanding convention permits a cutoff point at a manageable size, often those players with at least 100 first-team appearances. "Official legends" would be a perfectly acceptable scope for a featured list, but such a list should be named to reflect that scope: something like "List of FC Barcelona Official Legends". The lead section needs to clearly define the scope and inclusion criteria of the list, and then the list needs to stick to that definition. What we can't do, is construct a list whose scope depends on what sources are readily available on the internet.
• On sourcing, as User:WFCforLife has suggested above, very many of the player stats are not supported by the cited sources. The key states that the stats are for all competitions; as far as I can tell, BDfutbol's stats are for league competition only.
• Might I respectfully suggest you withdraw the nomination, then decide on an explicit scope for a list, create and source it exactly according to that scope, with no omissions and no extras, and then perhaps ask for a peer review before you re-submit. There's no hurry... In terms of layout, this list is fine, the only thing I might do differently is have a references column rather than having the reference in with the player's name. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

• • Nvm. I hereby withdraw the nomination Sandman888 (talk) 11:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Withdrawal Per Sandman888's request, I'm archiving this nomination. Mm40 (talk) 12:52, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.