Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Burnley F.C. internationals/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Burnley F.C. internationals edit

List of Burnley F.C. internationals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): WA8MTWAYC (talk) 09:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm nominating this quite a small list about Burnley Football Club's internationals. There aren't many lists of this kind, so I'm curious what you think of it. I'm looking forward to all feedback/reviews. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 09:31, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:34, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • "The final British Isles nation to have a representative from Burnley was Scotland" - it seems a bit odd that you haven't mentioned Wales at all before saying Scotland was the last of the four
  • "The only decade that the club did not have" - I think "The only decade during which the club did not have" would be better personally
  • I would make it clear above the table that the statistics are only for caps and goals while the player was a Burnley player, not their career totals. It may seem obvious but it doesn't hurt to clarify.
    • Added an extra line in the key section. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • On that note, do the refs actually support all the numbers? I checked Besart Berisha's Soccerbase page (used as the ref for his 10 caps) and it says he was with Burnley from 3 July 2007 to 31 July 2009. Checking the "games played" for each season within that date range on the same page only shows 6 international matches, so where are the other 4? Similarly, Soccerbase says that Dane Richards was at Turf Moor from January to July 2013 and doesn't list any international matches for him in that period (in fact it doesn't list any caps for him at all!) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I replaced the Soccerbase source (there were indeed many games missing...) with refs from 11v11 and an article from the club website. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisTheDude Thanks for your time and review, Chris! I've addressed your points and left some comments. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - might be worth archiving that page on the club website, as club websites are notorious for randomly changing URLs and/or deleting large chunks of content..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:34, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • ChrisTheDude Good shout, done now, especially since the club has had a new website since the beginning of this year and it has been kinda shaky. Thanks for your comments and support! WA8MTWAYC (talk) 09:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Edwininlondon
;Comments

A few comments from my side:

  • As a result, the team were able to enter the FA Cup for the first time in 1885–86 --> I'm not knowledgable in football history, so just checking if I understand this right: only clubs who paid their players were allowed to compete in the FA Cup?
    • The opposite actually. Before 1885, the Football Association (FA) had barred professional players from their competition. Quite a few clubs protested (all from Northern England) and created the breakaway British Football Association to challenge the supremacy of the FA. It led to an FA rule change in 1885, allowing professionalism. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • were one of the twelve founding members of the Football League in 1888–89 --> Should that not be just 1888? The founding was on one day, 1888–89 refers to the season. Right?
  • Burnley were the second, and are one of only five teams to have won all four professional divisions --> Not as elegant as all the other sentences in the lead. May I suggest a slight rewrite, for instance along the lines of "Burnley are one of only five teams to have won all four professional divisions of English football, along with Wolverhampton Wanderers, Preston North End, Sheffield United and Portsmouth. They were the second to achieve this, in xxxx."
    • I'm glad some of the sentences are regarded as elegant:). Done. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final British Isles nation --> tricky this. I immediately thought "you have forgotten Northern Ireland; there are 4 + 1 nations". After a bit of reading I see it turns out that Ireland played a joint team for decades after 1920. But then I look at the table and I see 6 flags for the British Isles. I think the text and table need to align. May I propose to drop the term "final British Isles nation" altogether, to add when the first player got a cap for Northern Ireland and then for the Republic of Ireland?
    • Good shout. I've removed the "final British Isles nation" line and cut it short to only highlight "Burnley's first non-English international" and "the first Burnley player to represent a country from outside the British Isles". WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be nice to see the total number of internationals somewhere. Perhaps at the end of the first paragraph.
  • McIlroy also holds the club record for most caps won (51) --> the biggest issue in this article, and any of the same ilk that will follow, is the counting of caps during the whole career vs just at the club. I see you discussed this with the ever helpful User:ChrisTheDude. My view is that this needs to be even more explicit, just near the table is not sufficient. So for McIlroy I suggest (51 while at the club). In addition, to drive home this difference, I would add a column with career caps. Then the reader can see it side by side, avoiding confusion.
    • I've amended the wording in "McIlroy also holds the club record for most caps won (51)" and the title above the table. So (plus the key section) that's three instances where the reader can find it's only about the caps/goals while at the club. I've not added an extra column as it's not relevant to the club, only to the players themselves. Furthermore, a lot of extra (and needless) refs will have to be placed in the table. I hope it's clearer now. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Edwininlondon Also added a note above the caps and goals columns. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 12:23, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll stop for now. I'll have a look at the sources tomorrow. Edwininlondon (talk) 22:35, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon Thank you very much for taking a look and for your review. I've addressed the points above and left some comments there. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. All looks fine. I'm ok with your solution to the career vs club caps. Edwininlondon (talk) 18:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 10:34, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Concluding my review:

  • In one of the sources, I think it was the club's website, it mentioned how many different nations Burnley players have played for. That would be a good stat to add. You could even go further and make a distribution table.
  • I just did a spot check of a few sources: #4, #12, #13, #16, #20. All ok.
  • Source #15 has 2007-12 for Duff
    • Ahh that's a typo on the website. Added a new source. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 10:34, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The newly added sentence about the total count being 86 needs sourcing. (Sorry) Edwininlondon (talk) 18:08, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon Thanks again for your time and comments. I've addressed the points above. If there's anything that needs further fixing, please let me know. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 10:34, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - A fine article that meets all the requirements for FL as far as I can see. Edwininlondon (talk) 13:49, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I'm not a sports fan, and was unfamiliar with "international" as a noun in this context. I kept reading the lead, but didn't get a clear idea of what it means; after reading Cap (sport) and the table caption, I'm assuming it's players who have played in international matches between teams of different countries? Please try to make this clear early in the lead - we should write for general audiences, and the FLC criteria requires a lead that "introduces the subject and defines the scope".
    • That's correct. I added a short line to introduce the subject. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 10:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The link international football leads to a disambiguation page.
  • The prose and tables otherwise look good. Please ping me when you have addressed the above!--AlexandraIDV 04:28, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexandra IDV: Thank you very much for your time and review. I've addressed your points. Cheers, WA8MTWAYC (talk) 10:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I have confirmed the changes, and I think the list looks good to go now!--AlexandraIDV 11:04, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ~ HAL333 19:49, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • The note Only caps and goals while playing for Burnley are included is a full sentence and needs a period.
  • The use of plural verbs for "team" bugs me, but I guess it's the British way, right?
    • It's indeed the British way. The club is singular, the team is plural. Although I must say, as a non-native English speaker, it's quite weird for me as well. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:36, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I had to nitpick with this one to find anything. Nice work! ~ HAL333 04:56, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

HAL333 Thanks very much for your kind words and comments! I've addressed your points. Thanks, WA8MTWAYC (talk) 08:36, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Happy to Support this nomination. ~ HAL333 19:49, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:45, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - I will review this once some of the common lead with the generic players list have been resolved. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 16:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi The Rambling Man, it should be resolved now. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 13:22, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the" is part of the "the Football Association" formal name.
  • "legalized" s for BritEng.
  • " this, in 1991–92." I would clarify by saying which division they won that season and make it something like "this by winning the Xth division in the 1991-92 season".
  • "a total of 86 players" probably a good spot for an {{as of}} since this might be subject to change.
  • "book "The Clarets Chronicles" " book titles in italics.
  • " was during the" no need for "during".
  • "youngest ever international at the age of 17.[13][14]" this could be considered pedantry I guess, but the latest of those two refs dates to 2015, what's to say there wasn't a younger one between 2015 and now?
    • Well, because there hasn't been a similar news article since and all the newer inclusions in the table were older at the time of their debuts. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 14:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Players are arranged" initially.
  • Edgar is "soccer" player and Yates was "Jack".
  • Ref 16 I think Burnley F.C. is the publisher (not italics).

That's all I have. Any comments that might apply to the other list should also be considered over there as I have a habit of missing stuff! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:16, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man Thank you for the review! I've addressed your points. I'll also look at some of the other lists and make some changes. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 14:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please look at the alt text on the picture of Sam Vokes, it's too funny. Please fix. Games of the world (talk) 17:08, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Source review – The reliability and formatting of the sources look okay, and the link-checker tool shows no issues. The source review has been passed. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:17, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 04:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Burnley_F.C._internationals/archive1&oldid=1003648399"