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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Best in Show winners of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:52, 19 May 2010 [1].

List of Best in Show winners of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show edit

List of Best in Show winners of the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Miyagawa (talk) 11:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because this is now the most accurate list of results for best in breed at Westminster available - it's actually more accurate than Westminster's own results page as I've been through and corrected several owners where only the kennel name has been given (I've added the owner details of those kennels). Westminster is thought of as being the second highest dog show in the world, and the biggest in the USA - the only one bigger is Crufts and at some point I'd like to get the list page for that up here as well (just sources for that are harder to come by).

Anyway, I've put this through a peer review and I think I covered everything that was brought up, but if there are any further queries please let me know and I'll get straight to work on them. I'd like to thank the editor who worked Dicken Medal up to FL as I was able to watch all the changes made along the way which gave me inspiration to work on this article. Miyagawa (talk) 11:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 12:50, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comments Hi Miyagawa, pleased you liked the work on the Dicken Medal and glad to see you here with your own list. A couple of really quick comments...
  • No bold links please, in the opening paragraph as you currently have.
  • Our lists no longer start with "This is a list..." - check out some recent promotions for some ideas.
  • "Ch." is linked in the first line of the table but not in the first use in the lead, unless I missed it.
  • You have "best-in-show" in the lead, but the title is "Best in Show", hyphens or not?
  • "at the age of 9 months" ->"aged nine months"
  • "He would win the title .." why not just "He won the title"?
  • Ref col should be Ref(s) as you often have multiple references.
  • New York Times is actually The New York Times.
  • What makes pennyworthkennels.com a WP:RS?
  • Refs 41, 46 etc have pp. when only one page is used - if you're using a template, make sure it says page= not pages= for single page refs.
  • Third gen ref needs an unspaced en-dash, not a spaced hyphen for the page range.

The Rambling Man (talk) 15:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for your comments. I think I've addressed them all now. For the RS query I've swapped it out with another reference - this reference is to show that Peggy Newcombe is the owner of Pennyworth Kennels which is what the owner is listed as from the official list on the Westminster website. Dropped the hyphens from the best in show, and redrafted that opening line. Miyagawa (talk) 20:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an all breeds conformation" - shouldn't all-breeds be hyphenated? And what's "conformation" (forgive my ignorance)?
  • Hyphenated all-breeds as suggested and moved the wikilink for Dog Breed up to that. Conformation in dog show terms mean that the dogs are judged by how close they conform to their breed standard. I added the wikilink for it to the first mention just before the comma in the first sentence of the first paragraph. Miyagawa (talk) 21:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You don't like all breeds but afterwards you do link breed. Link on first instance.
  • "title of best in show" or "Best in Show" or "best-in-show". I'd be consistent throughout.
  • "The least successful group..." does this mean that there are no groups with zero wins?
  • That's right, all groups have won at least on one occasion. Miyagawa (talk) 22:43, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "due to part to the group's comparatively recent creation in 1983." due in part? and can you reference this claim?
  • I'd would re-reference the "not awarded" row in the table with your ref [1].
  • I'd be tempted to add the images of the champions or owners who have articles, to make the list a little more jolly.
  • Added the free use images that I know of (created a couple of modified versions on commons so that the dogs weren't little dots in the group shot thumbnails). Miyagawa (talk) 22:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I need to be convinced that www.iinet.com is a WP:RS.
  • Managed to swap out with another Time reference. Miyagawa (talk) 22:42, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for eurodogs.net.
  • Managed to replace with a Time reference - not sure how I missed this one the first time around when I was adding references. Miyagawa (talk) 22:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 71 needs a spaced en-dash, not a spaced hyphen.
  • Refs 88, 89 and 91 use USA Today, but 88 has it as an unlinked publisher while 89 and 91 have linked works. Be consistent.

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:30, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments.

  1. It has been held in New York City, New York annually since 1877, and at Madison Square Garden since 1926. Why did they decide to begin awarding Best in Show? They existed for 30 years without any awards. Some historical information is necessary here.
    • Corrected that - turns out it was MSG 3 from 1926, but MSG first in 1880. Currently looking in to see if there was a reported reason why they began awarding Best in Show. Miyagawa (talk) 18:47, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      Where is it held now? in MSG IV? Ruslik_Zero 12:34, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      That's right. Miyagawa (talk) 22:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      Modified that line to read "was held at Madison Square Garden for the first time in 1880, and is currently held in the modern arena of the same name." with separate wikilinks to Madison Square Garden (1879) and Madison Square Garden. Miyagawa (talk) 10:43, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      Finally managed to track down Best in Show's origins. Variety classes were introduced in 1905 including classes for champion dogs and champion bitches. Added information and another cite from The New York Times. Miyagawa (talk) 22:52, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The James Mortimer Memorial Silver Trophy is given permanently should the dog win on five separate occasions with the same owner Does this mean that the Trophy is given to a dog, who became Best in Show in five years?
    • Slightly reworded that line, but it essentially means that should a single dog with the same owner win Best in Show for five years (not neccessarily consecutively) then are awarded the proper trophy to keep. Otherwise they keep a replica. It's never happened, as the most successful dog only won it for three years - and often dogs are retired to stub after winning for the first time anyway, so you don't get multiple wins very often anymore. Miyagawa (talk) 11:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  3. It would be good if you provided some information about how many dogs won permanent awards and how many replicas (including group wins mentioned in the same paragraph). Otherwise this paragraph looks unclear for me.
    • Removed the group trophy section - thought on reflection I was going off topic.Miyagawa (talk) 18:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  4. In 1992, competition at Westminster was restricted to champions only. Who are champions in this context?

Ruslik_Zero 17:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - I think the tables except Most successful breeds should be sortable after getting rid of the colspans or rowspans.—Chris!c/t 23:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • That was one of the original parts of the design of the table that I wasn't sure if it should change, however if it's the consensus then I'm happy to do so. Miyagawa (talk) 11:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Made the most successful groups sortable and the first column of the successful breeds too. I'm just not sure that the main table would benefit by removing all the column spans as it currently shows the trends in groups and breeds far better than if it was sortable and there were no col/rowspans. Miyagawa (talk) 19:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I can support now. Looks good—Chris!c/t 19:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "The title of Best in Show is given to the dog chosen as the winner the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show according to conformation show rules." Missing "of" after "winner".
  • Not sure if the second link to Championship (dog) is needed. Usually one link in a lead is sufficient.
  • "The least successful group is the Herding Group with a single win by Ch. Covy Tucker Hill's Manhattan, a German Shepherd Dog, a group which was only comparatively recently created in 1983." Is the last bit meant to be about the Herding Group? If so, I'd suggest moving it up to more directly follow what it's discussing.
  • For most of the photos of early winners, it is unclear when they were actually published. That, not the date they were created, determines whether an image is truly in the public domain most of the time.
  • Note A: Picky point, but the hyphen after "newly" should be removed. Usually, hyphens after an "-ly" aren't used.
  • The publisher of reference 90 should be in italics since it is a newspaper. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, all those points should be corrected now. I've removed the photographs of the early winners but left the painting as we have artist information. Re-ordered the herding group line so it should read better. Miyagawa (talk) 22:46, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One more point from a sentence that has been adjusted since I posted my initial comments: "It has been held in New York City, New York annually since 1877, and was held at Madison Square Garden for the first time in 1880, and is currently held in the modern arena of the same name." I meant to post something about a seperate wikilink for the old Garden, and I'm glad to see one in now. However, the sentence itself strikes me as a run-on (and ... and ...). I'd consider splitting this up in some way, whether through a semi-colon or breaking the sentence into two. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Changed slightly to read "It has been held in New York City, New York annually since 1877. It was held at Madison Square Garden for the first time in 1880, and is currently held in the modern arena of the same name." Miyagawa (talk) 18:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


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