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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Ah My Goddess episodes (season 1)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009 [1].

List of Ah My Goddess episodes (season 1) edit

Hello, all. This is my first FL attempt. I originally split List of Oh My Goddess episodes into three separate lists because they were so long, and I am almost sure that this part was originally what caused List of Oh My Goddess episodes to become a featured list. Therefore, I am nominating this for FLC after having written a lead and peer reviewing it. There are some unaddressed points in the peer review, which I simply cannot answer, and are frankly irrelevant. I must warn, however, that I did not write a single of these episode summaries. I can rewrite some of them if need be, but I think they're fine as is. Thanks! NOCTURNENOIRtalk 02:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment As the peer review is only recently closed by yourself, this FLC seems very premature. The issues raised there should be answered as the ones I see that are not answered seem pretty relevant. Then look at FLC.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • To the first peer review comment, I created the lead following a recently created FLC and not List of YuYu Hakusho episodes (season 1). I was told several times that the format that older lists followed was improper (such as the bolding). Second, to "I would make clearer the connection between the manga and the episodes - are they new material or an adaptation of the books?", the light novels appeared AFTER the anime. I'm pretty sure the lead is clear in saying that the series is based on the manga. For "How did the events in them affect the second season? Why were they made?", they simply had no affect and I couldn't find a single source as to why they were made. Finally, the peer review only garnered one review after it hit the backlog, so I doubt it'll find more reviewers. If you would like to review the list, I would be happy to fix the list per your comments, but I don't see a reason that this should not go through FLC at this time because I doubt many others will be improving it. NOCTURNENOIRtalk 03:04, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as Dabomb87 noted, article is in very bad need for copyedit and seems in complete. He made a better list than I could, but one very basic error I see is claiming the series was released to DVD in the US. DVDs are released in North America, not the US alone (Region 1 covers the continent not the country), and its never even actually stated that Media Blasters only that they released it (and yes, it should be stated explicitly). Also, Season One isn't a proper noun. I do not feel some of the peer review comments have been adequately addressed, particularly with the need for the lead to follow recent FLs (rather than FLCs) for anime episode lists, the need to better clarify the relationship with the anime/manga - as the manga is on-going, how much does the anime episodes actually cover? What are the general references supposed to be for? The airdates already have a specific reference, so those seem to have no function. Why is the second season not even mentioned at all in the lead? What about other licensing? It was released in the UK, but the article isn't mentioned. What about other language releases? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 01:09, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
FLC... I meant FLs. List of Bleach episodes (season 6), the most recent FL to pass, was what I based my lead off of. Working on the issues now... NOCTURNENOIRtalk 01:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, I think I've fixed all of the issues you brought up, Collectonian. Let me know if anything else is missing! By the way, I'm not entirely sure how relevant non-English releases of this would be on the English Wikipedia... If other FLs are any measure, that information is not included. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 19:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Many FLs do include that information. Looking just at the Bleach season pages isn't fully representative of the anime FLCs as a whole. Part of the issue with this one is its really a blend of a season list and a standalone list because of the way the "season" is split, including between English licensors. I did some tweaks to the lead to reorder and reword some (actually using Bleach Season 6's list as a guide). When the episode summaries have been checked and CEed, pop a note here. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there no better source for the DVD releases and airdates than ANN? While it is a reliable source, it should be the last resort for that information if the official sites has the same info. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have replaced every single ref and I have answers the questions. Anything further? NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 05:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) If you don't want to see the article go through a complete peer review, that's fine, but the article needs a third-party copy-edit before FL status can be attained.

  • "The season was released to DVD"-->The season was released on DVD...
  • I don't quite think that the tone of the first episode summary is encyclopedic. Phrases like "has a long and miserable day" "But even when things are going so poorly" are rather subjective and read like a story rather than a concise synopsis.
  • "After returning to the dorm just in time to receive the expected phone call"—"the"-->an.
  • "Keiichi tells Belldandy that he wishes for "a goddess like [her] to stay by [his] side forever," almost jokingly"-->Keiichi tells Belldandy jokingly that he wishes for "a goddess like [her] to stay by [his] side forever".
  • "The wish is actually granted and Belldandy reveals that she will be staying with Keiichi."
  • "Finally, Keiichi and Belldandy settle down for the night and spend the time talking as they begin to get to know each other. "-->Finally, Keiichi and Belldandy settle down for the night and get to know each other through conversation.
  • Generally, these are the main problems with the writing:
    • Tone, a result of being too close to the topic and the prose.
    • Verbose sentences that try to integrate too many thoughts, which inhibit the natural flow of the writing. Example: "So the two search for a place to stay until morning, a process complicated by the "System Force," which comes into effect whenever they are likely to be separated, effectively making it impossible for them to remain apart even for brief periods of time." I would suggest ending with a full stop (period) after "morning", and then starting, "However, their search is complicated by the "System Force", which..."
    • Excessive use of idle additive terms that, ironically, make the prose choppier. Examples: "So the two search for a place to stay until morning" and "Finally, desperate to defeat Belldandy, she takes Keiichi for a drive, only to fail when Keiichi reveals that he knows that Sayoko is only pretending to care about him. " Dabomb87 (talk) 00:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
doing By the way, it wasn't that I didn't want the article to go through a complete peer review. It was peer reviewed, and seeing as it did not garner any comments until it hit the PR backlog, I did not think it would be further reviewed. Would a large-scale rewrite of the episode summaries be suggested here? As these episode summaries were not written by me, I cannot vouch for their content/style. NOCTURNENOIRtalk 01:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you did not write the episodes, you should have probably consulted the person who did before nominating for FLC. Not all the episodes are "beyond repair" so to speak; however, a couple probably do need a reorganization—episodes 1 and 18 jump out at me on a quick look-over. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I did the best I can, so could you take another look over the episode summaries please? Thanks! NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 06:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please fix the dabs. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any further issues holding this back from FL, or is the copyedit issue still present? I really don't think there are more issues with the prose and I'm not hearing anything from either of you (Dabomb87 and Collectonian) so I don't know what to think... If there is anything I can improve please let me know. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 20:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I only see some copyediting with the lead (which didn't really need it) and only four episodes. The rest haven't been CEed yet. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 20:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but are you sure those episodes need copyediting? I had some people look at them and they had no objections... NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 20:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, I don't have time for much Wiki-editing today, so my revisit will have to wait till tomorrow (CST), probably about 18 hours from now. I will look at the article again soon today. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, as long as it doesn't fail between now and then, I've got all the time in the world. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Apologies for my very late rejoinder—I have been held up by real life and an Arbcom case. Expect my comments in a few minutes. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More comments I am not retracting my oppose yet. There has been definite improvement, and I feel that the article is within reach. However, the summaries need a good scrubbing by an uninvolved editor.

  • "In spite of this, Keiichi still goes out of his way to help a young girl, Hijiri" Why should having to watch a telephone impede his helping another girl? To be specific, my issue is with the phrase "In spite of this, Keiichi still".
    • The reference is to his bad luck, which I believe was removed in a previous revision. The point being that he helps out others even when he himself is in no position to do so (as he should probably help himself first). I completely reworded this anyways, so the issue should be gone. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After returning to the dorm and receiving the expected call," There is no explanation for what the call is for despite two references to it in the summary.
    • The anime literally has him pick up the phone, take a message, and hang up. I don't really think it's all that important and I'm entirely unsure as to what I would write for it if anything. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The two search for a place to stay until morning but their efforts are complicated by the "System Force" which makes it impossible for them to remain apart even for brief periods of time" Needs two commas—one goes after "morning"; can you spot where the other one should go?
    • I'm unsure if the comma should go after the quotation or before it... I've placed it before as that's where it usually goes, but correct me if I'm wrong. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Eventually Keiichi and Belldandy are able to settle down for the night and get to know each other through conversation. " Also, add a comma after "Eventually".
  • ". They initially are met with good luck when they meet Hijiri" Too wordy and unclear, besides, the fact that they received a free meal conveys their apparent "luck" to the reader. Also, can you elaborate on how they get the meal? I assume that Hijiri did not conjure it out of thin air for fun.
    • Fixed. It'd be kinda awesome if she did though... NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "blows Keiichi's single note" What do you mean by "note"? I know that it mentions that it is her fortune later, but can you be more clear? Maybe "banknote"?
    • Fixed. I would have used "bill," but not sure if that would make it any clearer. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c )
  • "After witnessing Belldandy saving Keiichi by using her magic and seeing Belldandy's angel, Holy Bell, the priest is inspired go on a pilgrimage and leaves the temple in their hands. " The noun + -ing construction is clumsy and ungrammatical, try: "Belldandy saves Keiichi by using her magic; after witnessing this incident and seeing Belldandy's angel, Holy Bell, the priest is inspired go on a pilgrimage and leaves the temple in their hands. "
    • My fix is slightly different from yours, so you may want to take a look and confirm that I fixed the problem. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Unfortunately, Professor Osawa is suspicious and decides to investigate."
  • "self help book"-->self-help book
  • "to look for advice on how"
  • "Keiichi determines to be himself " "determines"-->resolves or decides, take your pick.
  • "Unfortunately, Belldandy mistakes his nervousness for illness and rushes Keiichi off to his room and uses magic to "heal" him." "and...and" repetition distracting, try: "Unfortunately, Belldandy mistakes his nervousness for illness and rushes Keiichi off to his room, using magic to "heal" him." Dabomb87 (talk) 03:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Couple questions for you... First, do you happen to know where I can find a good copyeditor? WP:ANIME is decidedly lacking of FL-level copyeditors. In addition, would you happen to have a suggestion for a solution to the episode 12.5 issue mentioned below? Thanks! (Don't worry about time, by the way. I've got all the time in the world and this week has been supremely bad for my Wikipedia activity too). NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  • Link and spell out first occurance of "OVA" for people who don't know what it means.
  • "Episodes one through 12" - 12 to twelve as WP:MOSNUM says comparable quantities should be consistent.
  • Hmm, that's what I had before Julian copyedited... I'll have to tell him about that. Anyways, done. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The above will affect the rest of the paragraph - spell the episode numbers out.
  • Episode #'s - they should not be "01", "02", "03" etc. -> 1, 2, 3, etc.
  • Episode 12.5: this is completely unreferenced. The airdate ref doesn't cover this episode, and it's name etc. are also completely unreferenced. Also is "Episode 12.5" just a name you made up for the recap episode?
  • It's not made-up at all. I've added two refs to prove its existence. I'm not entirely sure if it's an official episode or not, but it certainly exists. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, I literally could not find a reliable source. However, CDJapan has this, which indicates the existance of 27 episodes. Without including episode 12.5, there aren't 27 episodes. I cannot prove it's existence with reliable sources otherwise... It's quite odd, really. Maybe I just don't know how to find sources well? NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 21:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to TV.com, it was never aired in the U.S., which means it doesn't have an official U.S. title. However, WP:ANIME stipulates that airdates are "Generally reliable" so I trust them to be correct. Should I remove the U.S. title and put a note about it under the table or something? NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 23:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed the title and replaced it with a note. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 23:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the context of the situation, Anime News Network is the best available source. This was the only other source I could find. The official site pretends it doesn't exist, but I've seen it myself, so I'm forced to believe it exists... I can't think of a better solution than to remove the episode altogether, but that simply doesn't change the fact that episode is a real episode (albeit without reliable sources). What is the best course of action? NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 13:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finally sourced. Hopefully, this one is reliable... NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 03:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also I believe the archive link (reference 3) is broken.
  • Replaced with an earlier archive version... There seems to be something wrong with the most recent archive as of right now. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The archive seems to be working again, so I've restored the link. NOCTURNENOIR ( m • t • c ) 23:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:48, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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