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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Yu Kanda/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:02, 4 May 2017 [1].

Yu Kanda edit

Nominator(s): Tintor2 (talk) 21:27, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the character Yu Kanda from the manga D.Gray-man. I chose to nominate due to its smaller size when compared with my previous nomination. Since English is not my first language, a fellow user from guild of copy-editors recently copy-edited. If there are any issues, feel free to point them out. I'll try hard to fix all of them. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 21:27, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, leaving the links to fellow users who might point out issues User:ProtoDrake, User:1989, User:Aoba47, User:Narutolovehinata5, User:AngusWOOF and User:Jaguar.Tintor2 (talk) 21:34, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ISD edit

Comment: Spotted the following things that are probably worth addressing:

  • Overlinking: Going via WP:OLINK, "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, hatnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." Thus, while it might be OK to link to some names once in the lead and once in the main article, that should be limit. Allen Walker is linked to three times, so his link in the "Appearances" section should be removed, as should the links to Lenalee Lee, Froi Tiedoll, Alma Karma. In the "Critical reception" section remove the repeated links to Skin Bolic, Takahiro Sakurai, Travis Willingham, Takuya Satō and Tsubasa Yonaga
  • May want to sort out the red line to Blue Tonic. If there was an article that has been deleted, you can just get rid of it.

Other than that, I think everything else is fine. ISD (talk) 13:37, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the feedback. Done.Tintor2 (talk) 14:23, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks very much. I now support this article's promotion. ISD (talk) 15:12, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47 edit

  • In the first paragraph of the lead, there is a repetition of the phrase "known as" in one of the sentences. This is more of a nitpick, but I was wondering if you could possibly revise this to avoid repeating the same phrase in such close proximity. It is not a major issue, but I think it would clean up and strengthen that part a little more.
  • In this same paragraph, I am not sure about the use of "however" when referring to the character's behavior with this teammates. The word choice implies a juxtaposition between him being cold towards his teammates and him not liking it when they use his first name and those two ideas seem to fall in line with one another. I would suggest just removing the "however" as the "even" is a strong enough part on its own.
  • In the phrase "a late Exorcist", would it be better to just say "a deceased Exorcist" to make the point clearer? I know that we are told to avoid euphemisms so if you are using "late" to say "dead" or "deceased" than I would suggest changing it.
  • The word "femenine" should be "feminine". I always misspell that word too for some reason.
  • I am not sure the quotation for "dumbest" is necessary as I believe you can paraphrase that part.
  • I would specify in the Willingham caption (the one with his image) that it was his work as the English voice actor.
  • Wonderful work on this article. I will support this once my comments are addressed. Good luck with getting this promoted! Aoba47 (talk) 14:04, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Done everything. Did I miss something?Tintor2 (talk) 14:23, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everything looks good to me. I now support this article's promotion. Great work with this as usual. Aoba47 (talk) 16:43, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Jaguar edit

  • "Kanda sides with the Black Order in their fight against a the Earl's group" - error
  • " the two video games, and the crossover Jump Ultimate Stars." - is Jump Ultimate Stars one of the two video games? Or does this mean there are three?
  • " In response, Kanda impaled Hoshino angered at her for her inexperience" - I don't think this makes grammatical sense. Missing comma perhaps?
  • "with Japanese words that resemble "The one who cannot read the atmosphere. Though" - missing quotation mark in between "atmosphere" and "though"
  • "more merchandise related to Kanda and other characters was released, including a Blue Tonic" - does blue tonic need to be capitalised?

Those were all of the minor issues I could find after my first read through of this article, although they were only nitpicks. Overall this article is comprehensive and solid. JAGUAR  16:58, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Tried fixing everything.Tintor2 (talk) 17:08, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for addressing them. I couldn't find anything wrong with this article, so I'll support. Well done! JAGUAR  17:11, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

ALT text is adequate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:53, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks, but I didn't get one thing. What is the issue with Willingham's image?Tintor2 (talk) 17:21, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    It does redirect me to the root myspace domain. Thus it's not clear if @Jack Cox: and whoever owns that myspace domain are the same person, or what the copyright status is. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:16, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see. So you suggest removing it?Tintor2 (talk) 19:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Brianboulton edit

Oppose at this point. I am concerned that this nomination is attracting supports at this early stage, as it is fairly clear on close reading that a lot more attention needs to be paid to the quality of the article's prose. While I appreciate that some work has gone into improving it, it is still way short of the high standards demanded of a featured article. These standards demand both grammatical correctness and clear and concise expression, avoiding excessive verbiage so that the meaning is plain even to the relatively uninformed reader. At present, I feel the article does not meet these criteria; apart from actual errors, the wording is sometimes clumsy and the meaning obscure. I know little about manga beyond what I've read in Wikipedia articles, and I was quickly confused when I tried to work through this one. I've made some detailed comments on the lead and first part of the "Creation" section; some of these points can be very easily settled, while others I think will require a bit more thought. I'll add more when these points have been addressed. I don't like opposing; however, my objective is not merely to criticise but to help bring this nomination to a successful outcome, and I hope you'll accept these comments in that spirit. Brianboulton (talk) 21:07, 27 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • "...even disliking it when people refer to him by his first name". Clarify whether his first name is "Yu" or "Kanda".
  • "Later in the series..." – later than what? Perhaps: "As the series proceeds..."
  • "The character was created with the intention to bring a change to the series' Western setting, with his design being based on samurai." Clumsily written, suggest: "The character was created to bring a change to the series' Western setting, his design being based on samurai." I've made a minor edit to strengthen this point.
  • "As a result of the character being attractive, Kanda has been difficult for Hoshino to illustrate, as she focused more on his eyes and hair when drawing him." Hard to make sense of this as written. There is no rationale given as to why an "attractive" character should present the creator with difficulties.
  • I have written a new and simpler version of the above sentence. Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Due to his original backstory having multiple plot holes, Hoshino rewrote it to one where Hoshino created Kanda's first friend, Alma Karma, who plays in his backstory as well as alterations to Kanda's characterization". Again clumsy prose (e.g. "Hoshino rewrote it to one where Hoshino..."). Also, the grammar falls apart after "who plays in his backstory". The sentence makes little or no sense to the general reader, and needs a redraft.
  • Your minor revision doesn't improve the clarity or the grammar of this sentence. I'd try and work on it myself, but I am unsure of the point you are trying to make. Would it matter if the entire sentence was removed from the lead? Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tried splitting the sentence to make it more clear.Tintor2 (talk) 18:11, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He is voiced by Travis Willingham in English and by Ian Sinclair in Hallow. The two parts of the sentence "in English" and "in Hallow" are mismatched. One's a language and the other an episode, presumably. Anyway, this voice actor detail is inappropriate in the lead, the function of which is to act as a broad general summary of the article. The detail is given in the main text and doesn't need to be spelled out here.
  • I've made a minor copyedit to your revision - but why is this information required in the lead? It's spelled out in the text; why do we need to be told the same minor detail twice? I suggest you replace the detail in the lead with a short summary sentence: "Various voice actors have been employed for the character, in both the original soundtrack and the English dubbed version".

Brianboulton (talk) 18:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Third paragraph: the word "Initially" is redundant at the start of the fourth sentence. In the same sentence the formulation "due to" is used for the second time in the lead (and recurs in the main text). This phrasing tends to disfigure prose, and should be reworded whenever possible.
  • You need a "his" before "character development".
Creation and design
  • Suggest "an unpublished work" rather than "one unpublished title"
  • The prose would flow better if the first two sentences were merged: "The character of Yu Kanda was carried over from an unpublished work created by Katsura Hoshino, who designed Kanda to introduce a change into D.Gray-man's Western setting."
  • Who is being quoted in the phrases "came out very naturally" and "who are like young lions"?
  • What is meant by "her amateur manga"?
  • The word "official" is wrongly used in your rewrite, but I know now what you're trying to say, and I've tweaked the prose a little. Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "liked" is a wimpish word. Perhaps "admired"?
  • OK, "liked" is your preference, but leaves you with "liked" and "like" in close proximity. I've fiddled with the wording. Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "she felt" → "Hoshino felt"
  • "thought by Hoshino" → "considered by Hoshino"
  • "thought" is wrong here. The clear intended meaning is "thought about", i.e. considered. I've made the change. Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the official ones": there's nothing "official" here. Do you mean "the final version"?
  • "By the release of the series' tenth volume, Hoshino wrote a joke about how she missed Kanda. In response, Kanda impaled Hoshino, angered at her for her inexperience as he claimed he did not know how to illustrate him well." Don't know what this is about - it seems to be merging reality with fantasy. How necessary is this potentially confusing snippet?
  • No clearer yet, I'm afraid. I'm particularly confused by "...as he claimed he did not know how to illustrate him well." What does this mean? Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've modified this with a further copyedit. I think it makes sense now. Brianboulton (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

*"This contrasted other characters such as Reever Wenham and Malcolm C. Rouvelier based on their older looks". The verb "contrasted" needs "with", but even so I'm not clear what point the sentence is making.

  • "The original idea for Kanda's feminine looks is that he was originally..." Ugly repetition (original/originally) - delete one. Also, "basis" would be better than "idea", which is used in the next sentence.
  • "When Hoshino could start with the character's backstory, both Kanda and his best friend, Alma Karma's, designs were made to contrast each other, with Kanda retaining his feminine looks while Alma appeared more masculine." Unnecessarily wordy: you could simplify to "In the backstory the designs for Kanda and his best friend, Alma Karma, contrasted with each other, Kanda retaining his feminine looks while Alma was presented as more masculine".
  • "This was done in order to hide the fact that Karma is actually the reincarnation of the woman Kanda has been searching for". I'm confused. Earlier in this paragraph you say that this idea was "scrapped".
  • I've dealt with the above three points by some inventive copyediting. At least the results are grammatical. If I have altered the sense, let me know and we'll work further on it. Brianboulton (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why has Hoshino suddenly become "the author"? better to stick to the name.
  • The derivation of Kanda's name would be better placed at the beginning of the paragraph, rather than being stuck on the end as an afterthought. You could also clarify what you mean by "volume twenty" – of what? I don't see any previous mention of 20 volumes in the series.

More to follow. Ping me when you have responded to the above Brianboulton (talk) 21:07, 27 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Brianboulton: thanks for the feedback. Tried doing everything you mentioned. The only that confuses me is that is that I was using "the author" to avoid repeating Hoshino's last name so many times.Tintor2 (talk) 23:14, 27 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Tintor for the speedy responses. I'll work through these this weekend and report back. Brianboulton (talk) 08:49, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Brianboulton: Tried rewriting those sentences in the lead. Hope it looks better now.Tintor2 (talk) 18:41, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Brianboulton: Removed some and reworded others. Thanks for editing the article too.Tintor2 (talk) 22:20, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've done with the above, and will proceed with my prose review for the remaining sections of the article. Please be patient as this may take me some time. Brianboulton (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it's just that I removed some details from his appearances section that might be minor.Tintor2 (talk) 21:58, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Lois Lane vs Mary Jane edit

Oppose this seems to have a lot of issues. Many statements that could be challenged don't have obvious citations, and a lot of the citations are off-line in a foreign language, not really compatible with Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources. More to come. Lois Lane vs Mary Jane (talk) 01:15, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Japanese guidebooks were used since Viz Media never released them.Tintor2 (talk) 01:47, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since this is a FAC I would like to pre-emptively "request that a quotation of relevant portions of the original source be provided, either in text, in a footnote, or on the article talk page" Lois Lane vs Mary Jane (talk) 02:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? You ask me to put a translation for every Japanese page where Hoshino talks about the character? Sounds like a lot of undue weight.Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Lois Lane vs Mary Jane: Still, a bit confused. The Japanese text is a lot add as well as the English translations. It would mean that every chapter cited in Appearances also needs quotation marks.Tintor2 (talk) 17:54, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
By any chance it's this what you want? "<ref">Hoshino, Katsura (July 4, 2011). CharaGray! (in Japanese). Shueisha. p. 31. ISBN 978-4-08-870268-1. Hoshino: Guess his hair and eyes. Kanda is a person that "says things with his eyes". That's why I pay attention to his eyes in his battles. Also, I draw the highlights in his hair with more care than I do for the female Lenelee's</ref>
That's good, but I'd like the Japanese as well so your translations can be checked. That quote is number 8, right? It doesn't seem to support "believing that the latter indicate the character's mood" Lois Lane vs Mary Jane (talk) 11:38, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That was just a question out of many of a single page. I think it will be really undue weight if we have to add every single quote (especially the Japanese one).Tintor2 (talk) 12:44, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since I can't write in Japanese, give me a bit of time until a fellow might write it.Tintor2 (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note edit

I'm taking these edits to indicate that the nominator would like to withdraw the nom, and will action shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:59, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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