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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William Hardham/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 29 March 2021 [1].

William Hardham edit

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk) 09:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about William Hardham, a New Zealand soldier who was awarded the Victoria Cross for saving a wounded comrade during an engagement of the Boer War. Only the second New Zealander to be a recipient of the VC, he went on to serve in the First World War. Seriously wounded at Gallipoli, after recovering he was commander of a Military hospital in New Zealand and later participated in the Sinai and Palestine campaign. After the war he was involved in rugby union administration. The article underwent a GA review in July 2018 and then a Milhist A-class review in May 2019. I freshened the article up a little last year in anticipation of taking this to FAC. Thanks in advance to all those who participate in the review. Zawed (talk) 09:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • The infobox image is missing alt text. Heartfox (talk) 18:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added alt text now. Zawed (talk) 09:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 23:46, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild edit

Recusing to review. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:59, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "that could be awarded at the time to British and Commonwealth forces." Insert 'members of the'.
  • I swapped personnel for members, but otherwise changed as per suggestion. Zawed (talk) 08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Having reached the rank of major by the end of the war". Perhaps add 'in 1914'?
  • I think you mean 1918? Have added. Zawed (talk) 08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He would eventually play 53 games for the province". What province?
  • Have clarified - I think I had phrased it that way originally to try and avoid using Wellington too much but it is inevitable I guess. Zawed (talk) 08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the first and only such award". Do we need "first and"?
  • Good point, a bit redundant isn't it. Have rephrased. Zawed (talk) 08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This event took place even before the gazetting of the award." A non-specialist will have little idea what this means, so perhaps an in line explanation, especially of "gazetting".
  • "The medal itself was not officially engraved". What was engraved, and where on the medal?
  • Have expanded on this. Zawed (talk) 09:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Rough Riders spent the final weeks of its service in South Africa". Optional: "its" → 'their'.
  • "It was also involved in". Quite possibly just me, but referring to the Rough Riders as "it" really jars.
  • Changed. Earlier in the section I use they/their anyway so the changes actually make for consistency. And looking at it again, it is a little jarring. Zawed (talk) 08:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On the outbreak of the First World War" State when.
  • "and would be destined for service", "would be" → 'was'.
  • "organise sporting events to keep men occupied." → 'organise sporting events to keep the men occupied.'
  • "While the WMR missed out on the initial landings at Gallipoli". Suggest a different phrase to "missed out".
  • "the initial landings at Gallipoli". Give the date.
  • "During an attack on Anzac Cove". Could you specify who was doing the attacking.
  • "and it was during this engagement", Delete "it was".
  • "Initially just a temporary position". Delete "just".
  • "repatriated back to New Zealand suffering malaria." Optional: → 'repatriated back to New Zealand suffering from malaria.'
  • That's better, have changed. Zawed (talk) 08:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Unable to return to his work as a blacksmith". I can guess why, but I think you should be explicit.

Nice one. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:59, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild, thanks for taking a look at this one. I have made some edits to the article and responded with comments above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note edit

Hi Zawed: more than three weeks in and only one review. It may be time to see if you can call in some favours? Gog the Mild (talk) 21:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Pendright edit

@Zawed: I have a few comments for your cosideration. Pendright (talk) 06:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

The Boer War link and the South Africa section indicate it's the Second Boer War. The Boer War, as you are aware, is known by several names - suggest you choose one and AKA one of the others.
Gone with Second Boer War - I use that term elsewhere so that keeps things consistent. Zawed (talk) 06:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • He rode to the rescue of a wounded soldier while under heavy fire and for this he was awarded the Victoria Cross.
He rode his "horse", "steed" or "mount"?
Gone with horse. Zawed (talk) 06:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Discharged from the New Zealand Military Forces in 1901, he rejoined for another period of service in the Boer War but did not return to South Africa and instead was sent to England for the coronation of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra.
Boer War VS. Second Boer War?
As above. Zawed (talk) 06:18, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Early life:

  • He was [born and] educated in Wellington, the city of his birth and when his schooling was completed, he obtained work as a blacksmith.
  • Consider the above changes
I had constructed this section originally to avoid getting too close to the source material. I haven't gone with your suggestion (since it would involve using "born in" two sentences in a row) but have rephrased. What do you think now? Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • One could become a blacksmith without a formal education, but honing the skills of the trade could take several years. Could you add a litle background?
Presumably he actually started as an apprentice but there is nothing in the sources to support this assumption. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa:

  • During the Second Boer War, the New Zealand Government offered the British [Government] a mounted rifles contingent from the New Zealand Military Forces for service in the [South Africa] conflict in South Africa.
  • Second Boer War?
Using Second Boer War consistently now. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should it go without saying that the British accepted Australia’s offer?
Have rewritten to explicitly state this. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider the above changes
  • In addition to the Second Boer War link, could you briefly tell readers who fought in it and why?
Have added some context for the reader. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Volunteers were plentiful and by 1900, two contingents had already left for the war.
Wouldn't the comma after 1900 be better placed after pentiful, or how about no comma at all because the sentence is only 14 words?
I have rejigged this sentence. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • They was also involved in the capture of a convoy of Koos de la Rey's commando in March 1901.
  • "They was "vs. "They were"?
Ouch. Fixed. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should commando be plural?
Not in this context - Commando can be used in a singular form as it can refer to a troop of men as per its usage here. Earlier in this section I refer to commandos, but in the sense of multiple troops. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aside from a brief action at Ottoshoop in August, the Rough Riders spent the majority of their service in the war in the Transvaal, carrying out reconnaissance patrols and pursuing Boer commandos.
  • Since location is being expressed, shouldn't "in
the Transvaal" be "at the the Transvaal"?
The Transvaal is a province, not a specific feature so the accepted usage is in the Transvaal. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence does well in telling readers about the several events that took place, but how about showing them a bit of it?
The actions were generally small scale so what I've done here is combine two paragraphs, to give Hardham's VC action as an example of skirmishing with Boer commandos. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hardham [and] , along with over 50 other New Zealand mounted riflemen[,] serving in South Africa, [were] was sent to England to join up with the New Zealand contingent attending the coronation of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra and participated in a parade of colonial troops in London on 1 July 1902.
Consider the above changes
Done. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Civilian life:

  • As well as [In addition to] his work as a blacksmith, he also increasingly became involved in rugby administration; in 1908 he commenced a six-year term on the of the Wellington Rugby Football Union.
Consider the above change?
Done. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First World War:

  • Later in the day, Hardham was ordered to lead an attacking party on the Nek, from where Turkish soldiers were sniping.
  • Literally, Nek means Neck?
Actually, I'm not sure, it is just the name of the feature being attacked. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the "Nek" of what?
There has been some clarifying text added. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If snipping has not been linked, consider linking it.
Linked as suggested. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • He still sought a role with the NZEF and eventually, in late 1917, the military authorities relented[,] and he was able to rejoin the WMR, which at the time was serving in Palestine.
Consider the above changes
Done. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • His [Hardham's] health was poor and he spent [was ill] much of the remainder of the war ill.
Considet the above changes
Done. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Later life and legacy

  • After the war, Hardham was discharged from the NZEF but sought a role in the New Zealand Military Forces as a professional soldier.
  • Where and when was he discharged?
Sources don't explicitly state this. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should it be said that he returned to Wellington?
Again the sources don't explicitly state this, but some of his employers were in Wellington I have expanded on the detail of the newspaper he worked for which gives some context. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suffering from stomach cancer, Hardham died at his home in the suburb of Ngaio on 13 April 1928.
Consider adding -> "on 13 April 1928" [at the age of ?].
Done. Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Finished - Pendright (talk) 06:01, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pendright, thank you for your considered feedback, much appreciated. I have responded with replies above and edits to the article. Thanks again, Zawed (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Zawed: My pleasure! All good, supporting - Pendright (talk) 22:10, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Dumelow edit

I only looked at the prose, comments below but looking pretty good to me. All the best - Dumelow (talk) 11:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dumelow, thank you for stopping by and reviewing this one, it is greatly appreciated. I have responded to your comments above and with edits to the article. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 04:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting on prose, your changes look good to me - Dumelow (talk) 10:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – pass edit

  • Slight inconsistency in formatting of initials: "Crawford, J.A.B." vs "Hall, D. O. W."
  • According to the OCLC link, the year range in the title of Hall 1949 is actually 1889–1902, not 1899–1902.
  • Weird, the title is definitely 1899–1902. Bizarrely, doing a search on Worldcat I found another version where the year part of the title was 1899–1908, so that two versions of the same book with incorrect titles! I have found an oclc number that links to the correct title. Zawed (talk) 09:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be consistent in the formatting for the location: McCarthy & Howitt 1983 and Wilkie 1924 are missing "New Zealand" after Auckland.
  • Some would quibble about ISBN-10 vs ISBN-13 formatting, but I really don't care: they are equally verifiable.
  • The Dictionary of New Zealand Biography reference could do with a first published year of 1996 adding.
  • The cite template here is a specific one for DNZB entries so isn't the standard web cite template. I have tried adding orig-year to the DNZB template, but it doesn't show up when previewed. Zawed (talk) 09:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reference from The London Gazette is formatted inconsistently compared to the other newspaper sources.
  • Like the DNZB template, this reference uses one specific to the LG whereas the others use the standard newspaper cite template. This is why they are inconsistent. I have used this mixture of LG and newspaper cites in other FA articles. Zawed (talk) 09:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • All sources appear to be to high-quality, reliable sources.

More to follow on coverage and accuracy. Harrias (he/him) • talk 20:20, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source review, I have responded above. Look forward to your further comments. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I'm happy with the responses above. Harrias (he/him) • talk 19:47, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Searches don't reveal any glaring omissions, this article appears to accurately cover the source material.
  • The nominator is an experienced and trusted editor, so spotchecks are not necessarily needed. That said, I did check the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography references, and all checked out okay.
  • Further checks for copyvio or close para-phrasing revealed nothing of concern; the only significant duplication appeared in attributed quotes.

Sorry for the gap in the middle, but with those addition checks, I'm happy to pass this source review. Harrias (he/him) • talk 19:47, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note edit

Hi Zawed, like to see a review from someone outside of MilHist -- if you think you can scare one up, great, otherwise I'll try and do so. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:14, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ian Rose, I have reached out to a non-Milhist editor of New Zealand topics to see if they will take a look and if that doesn't work out, I will post a request on the NZ project page. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 01:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was at the receiving end of such a request and I shall endeavour to have a look. Schwede66 02:49, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ian Rose, I think this is good to go now. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 23:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Support by Schwede66 edit

I have looked at this from a non-military perspective. I offer the following comments:

  • There’s an existing redirect for Mount Cook School and it points to the suburb; suggest you make use of that link.
  • Naauwpoort should be wikilinked (redirects to Noupoort)
  • Done although by amending the previous paragraph - I prefer to not have a link within the quote if I can avoid it. Zawed (talk) 05:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hardham was presented with the VC, the only such award made to a New Zealander in the Boer War, on 1 July by George, Prince of Wales, who was in South Africa on a visit." This could do with the year added for clarity. We are talking about 1901 but what is confusing is that in the previous line, The London Gazette notice is reproduced with an October 1901 date. It's confusing that this was gazetted after the medal had already been awarded and by adding the year, that confusion is avoided. Admittedly, the very next sentence clears this up but by then, some readers may already be confused.
  • "This event took place even before the award was officially announced in the London Gazette." My preference would be to include "The" within the wikilink and in italic font as that’s the common name for the gazette.
  • Fixed. That's a subtlety I don't think I've noticed before. I may need to amend a few other articles where I've probably omitted "The" from The London Gazette. Zawed (talk) 06:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in accordance with normal practice" – I suggest this should instead say “in departure from normal practice”
  • Yes, that reads better. Zawed (talk) 06:08, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and Hardham was discharged two months later" – would it be a good idea to wikilink to Military discharge for those of us who aren’t super-familiar with military matters?
  • "Soon after the Ninth Contingent's arrival in South Africa in late April" – I see that there is no article for the 9th New Zealand Contingent but is that contingent notable? If so, I’d like to see a red link.
  • It is subjective, but in my view the 9th Contingent isn't notable. It did little active campaigning and the war ended the month after its arrival in South Africa. Zawed (talk) 06:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "were sent to England to join up with the New Zealand contingent attending the coronation of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra" – hang on, another contingent? Or does this instance of "contingent" have a different meaning to the previous one? If so, could a different term be used?
  • Yes, I see the potential for confusion here - the benefit of feedback from a non-Milhist person. I have rephrased. Zawed (talk) 06:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Coronation Parade of Imperial troops in 1902
  • Is this a suitable photo to illustrate this part of the bio?
  • Unfortunately, the copyright tag on that photo doesn't look correct and the caption suggests it is a parade in South Africa not London. But your suggestion to illustrate the parade led me to the photo I have chosen to illustrate this section. Zawed (talk) 06:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While the WMR were not involved" – one regiment and therefore, it should be “was not involved” for proper grammar (or else, you ought to talk about the “soldiers of the WMR”).
  • Is "countermand" a military term? Have never heard it before; would anything be lost if a more common term (e.g. "revoked") was used instead?
  • "He was involved in veterans' affairs, being a club manager at the Wellington Returned Serviceman's Association and organising Anzac Day parades." Should that be "Servicemen's", i.e. plural? Wikilink the RSA part to Royal New Zealand Returned and Services' Association?
  • Turns out the name was slightly wrong, I have amended to match the source and linked. Zawed (talk) 08:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Victoria Cross plaque, Queens Gardens, Dunedin
  • Should this image be used in the later life and legacy section?
  • In terms of structure, what didn’t sit quite right with me is that his marriage gets a mention only after he’s dead. Obviously, he married his wife after his repatriation back to New Zealand. Maybe the section "First World War" should have three sub-headings: his two placements and the short time in NZ in between. As a VC holder, there was of course contemporary interest in the wedding, and here's one source of such reporting. At the very least, St. Peter's Church, Wellington (Category I registered and thus notable), the wedding date, and a bit more on her background should be stated. That would give it better balance / make it less of a "mostly military" bio. Schwede66 04:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have moved the content regarding the wedding to the appropriate place chronologically, and also added some headings RE your comments on structure. Zawed (talk) 08:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Schwede66, thank you very much for responding to my request for feedback on this article. I have responded to your points above and my edits are here. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • No trouble; good work. Just one further question – is it common to show authors with their given names abbreviated to initials? For convenience, the full names are David Hall (Q62666642) and Alexander Herbert Wilkie (Q106244682). Personally, I show full names when these are known (preferably common names) but have never looked up whether there is guidance on the matter. Schwede66 19:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the support! When citing authors, I use the names as they appear in the source itself. If they had an article on Wikipedia, I would link through to that. Not sure if the author-link field in the cite template works for Wikidata or not. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 23:01, 28 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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