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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Triangle (The X-Files)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 15:58, 4 August 2012 [1].

Triangle (The X-Files) edit

Triangle (The X-Files) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Following Grapple X's successful nomination of "Squeeze", I present, "Triangle". This episode is regarded by many as one of the best entries the series ever produced, as well as one of the last great episodes created. "Triangle" recently underwent a peer-review and was already promoted to GA status, earlier this year. I feel that it truly is comprehensive: the production section is filled with information, and the page has sections for filming, themes, broadcast numbers, and critical reception. I have illustrated the article with appropriate pictures, and one video, to demonstrate the episode's unique filming style. To anyone who would like to do a spot-check, I'd be willing to email scans of the books and articles in question. Thank you for looking at this and considering it. Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, here's a link to the Peer Review.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 15:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - I am known as the "X-Files Guy" around my friends, as I own every single season and the movies on DVD. While I personally feel that X-Cops is the best all around episode, if for no other reason than the acting and camera work were absolutely superb, I agree that Triangle is in the Top 5 best the series has to offer, and should be treated as such. Upon my reviewing of the episode in question, I agree that it is some of the Wikipedia community's best, and deserves to be featured. - User:Haon 2.0 (talk)


Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Be consistent in how page notation is spaced
  • FN14: what kind of source is this?
  • FN15: should use endashes
  • What makes this a high-quality reliable source? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I made the pages consistent, fixed the dash/endash problem, and removed the dubious sources. If anyone is interested, I can send scans of the books over.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, I totally forgot to mention that during the Peer-Review, the reviewer did a sourcecheck/spot check because she had the books.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:22, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

I copy-edited half the article to cut down on redundant wording etc.

  • The guest actors list in the infobox is excessively long—it is not intended to be replacement/replica of the end-credits of the episode.
  • I haven't ever seen this episode so the first part of the Plot is completely unclear to me. Mulder is found unconscious in the sea—on a boat/raft? In what year? If the ship is commandeered by the SS, why do they suspect him of being a Nazi spy?
  • "Carter designed the episode in a style similar to Alfred Hitchcock’s film Rope." why does this need three refs?
  • Great video: but, in the spirit of minimum use, could it be shortened as the key bit comes only at the end of the thirty seconds?

More later.—indopug (talk) 12:03, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed some of the plot issues and removed the three refs. I'll try to shorten the video when I have a bit more time later. As for the infobox, I just matched it, stylistically, to all the other X-Files episodes, including "Squeeze", which recently became a FA. Are there certain individuals that should be removed?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Squeeze's cast is only a third as long, so I didn't notice it during my review. My problem here is with listing extras (First Mate onwards); Wikipedia is not IMDb.—indopug (talk) 16:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, how's it look now?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 00:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments—
  • "The sailor, however, turns out to be a German spy, and a man strongly resembling Kersh takes control of the ship and steers it back towards Jamaica. Mulder tells them to turn around and go back to where they came from, but he is taken down to the ballroom by Nazis." — I'm not sure what the connection between the sailor being a German spy and '30s Kersh taking control of the ship is. Who is Mulder telling to turn around and go back where they came from — Kersh, the Nazis (it's not made clear Kersh is a Nazi)? Wouldn't "turning around" involve taking the ship back to Germany?
  • Series creator Chris Carter developed the idea for "Triangle" while working on fifth season episode "The Red and the Black."[2] For the latter, Carter had used more film than any other director but Kim Manners. The crew made Carter a mock trophy, which inspired him to write an episode that featured continuous action as a way to minimize film usage.[3] — Used more film than any other director of the series, correct? Needs to be made more specific, otherwise it sounds like he used more footage than any director of all entertainment or something.
  • "Triangle" was filmed in one continuous shot, so that when the actors entered the stage elevator, the set that they would move onto had to be constructed behind the closed doors. — This statement contradicts the rest of the article and common sense. It clearly was multiple shots that were edited together; how else did they cut from Scully to Mulder? This needs to be cleared up.
  • Davis was given the cassette two weeks before schedule; he noted that the method "seemed to work pretty well—at least to non-German-speaking people! It was a little more challenging because there were some real German speakers on the show, which I thought was a little unfair."[11] — Unclear what the thrust of this is; did he use the cassettes to learn his lines phonetically? Did they dub him?
  • In addition, when the episode aired, it was shown letterboxed, the first X-Files episode to receive this treatment. Carter reasoned that this method would allow for more action to be viewable in each frame.[8] — This doesn't really make sense without context. Was the episode shot with anamorphic lenses? If it wasn't, then letterboxing would be losing visual information from the 35mm stock (in essence cropping the image).
    • It doesn't say in the source. What I assume is that the episode was filmed like a movie, so probably with with an anamorphic lens. Then, instead of cropping it like was normally done, they just left it.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:17, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Clarification: they filmed it in "movie format", and then instead of cropping it to fit TV, they left it. Thus, it was letterboxed. How's it look now?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:19, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instead of showing them as "real Nazis"—as portrayed in third season episodes like "Paper Clip"—this episode portrays them as "dream-nazis". The following sentence suggests that what they mean is that they are deliberately more hokum, comic-book or exaggerated caricatures, but this sentence doesn't really make anything clear. The passage should be clarified.
    • I stole your "more hokum" as I feel it fits perfectly. Does it seem better now?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, that's fine, but if the source doesn't describe that as nonsensical or cliched characters, you can't really call them that yourself. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 12:09, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • The source does call them that, thus the whole "dream-Nazi" and "comic book nasties" thing. I just reworded (by stealing your line) what they were saying.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:19, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • But if they didn't explicitly say that, it's original research. I think using language like that is going beyond what can be common-sense understood from the passage. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 18:00, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • I've changed this to "deliberately exaggerated", though I also considered "stereotypical" and "stylized"; those wordings to me seem more in line with the sources and I'm happy to use any of them depending on what reads best. GRAPPLE X 18:05, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not all reviews were so positive; Alan Sepinwall, noting it as the episode "that turned out to be a dream", called "Triangle", "technically impressive but dramatically murky".[27] Before, you said there was only one exception to the positive reception. Which one is it?
  • While I think you've done a compelling job in the article for including the video clip (it's interesting to see the proliferation of these things since when it was uncharted territory back when I started :D), there's much less of a defense for File:XFiles-Triangle-screenshot.jpg. The difference of character's appearances is not that important to the article, is already described in text, and applicable comments about characterization are not evident from the screenshot. I'd say it should be lost.
  • Unable to do checks on most of the referencing, given that are OTN.

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 17:26, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

K. I'll take another look today. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 18:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck addressed comments, left one inline above. I think the prose still needs some work so I'm going to go through it myself. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 12:09, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I tried to fix the remaining issues. What do you think now?--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • After confronting Assistant Director Alvin Kersh (James Pickens, Jr.) and Agent Jeffrey Spender (Chris Owens), Walter Skinner (Mitch Pileggi) provides Scully with information from the Pentagon and Scully leaves with the Gunmen to find Mulder. - So Skinner confronts Kersh and Spender, or does Scully confront the aforementioned and Skinner is the one who finally gives her the information?
    Rephrased.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:37, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sailor, however, turns out to be a German spy, and a British sailor strongly resembling Kersh takes control of the ship and steers it back towards Jamaica. Mulder tells them to turn around and go back to where they came from, in order for the ship to pass back through the time warp and bring them back to 1998. Mulder, however, is taken down to the ballroom by Nazis. Ok I'm still a little confused. Mulder tells the Nazi what they're after, that I get; but why is that connected via semicolon to a (presumably Allied) British guy taking back control of the helm? And does he lose it again, or are the Nazis only in control of the ballroom?
    Ok, I tried rephrasing the section. Mulder tells them to turn around and they remain in control. To be honest, the episode is kind of logistically fuzzy, so I'd assume they stay in control, but we're never told.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:36, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:49, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Leaning support—I've gone through and done another pass, and I think most of the issues I have are addressed. Indopug brings up a good point about the "later reception" section, however. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:05, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Final comments

I think this article is good to go, but for "Later reception", which needs a rewrite. It's a rather dull read and needs to be made more compelling. There are endless variations of how the episode is "one of the best/highlights of the season/show"; there's no need to include a review just because it exists, try to make sure a review contributes to your narrative of why it is so good, even after so many years since its release. With this mind, many sentences—namely, the declarations of the episode's awesomeness from DVD Talk/Journal/etc—can be culled outright. Further, I think the section can be structured better: separate the reviews about Carter's unique direction, the kiss etc.

Also, prose: the section uses the word "episode" 32 times.—indopug (talk) 08:56, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get on this tonight. Hopefully will be better tomorrow.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 00:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'm working on it in my sandbox as well speak (type). It should be up by tonight.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 00:51, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have pretty much re-written the last section, and organized it according to: general praise, comments about directing, comments about conceit, and finally, the kiss. I also cut down on the use of "episode" and tried to make the prose better. Tell me how it looks now!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 01:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support All of my concerns have been addressed. Good job.—indopug (talk) 12:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Not sure how much weight this carries as I'm an active member of the relevant wikiproject but I feel that the article meets the criteria; I'm glad to back its promotion. GRAPPLE X 15:37, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate note -- didn't see an image check above but from my own scrutiny the licensing appears okay. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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